Heaven and Hell

[The Olesens]

I was writing a little something for a PBeM when I realized that there was no mention of a
Heavan or Hell in the books, as far as I remember. Do Cerilians belive in reincarnation?
Nesiere's priests apparently do, as is stated in the BoP on the bottom-right of her first
page. Do some belive in a Heaven and Hell? Or a combination of H/H and reincarnation?

I hope I start what I did with the GS, "It was only a simple question..."

- -Andrew

[BenandAmy]

What are you trying to do?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

(*Ben recalls a certian topic of this nature dominating this list for
weeks.*)

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- -----Original Message-----
From: The Olesens
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 8:05 PM
Subject: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Heaven and Hell


>I was writing a little something for a PBeM when I realized that there was
no mention of a
>Heavan or Hell in the books, as far as I remember. Do Cerilians belive in
reincarnation?
>Nesiere's priests apparently do, as is stated in the BoP on the
bottom-right of her first
>page. Do some belive in a Heaven and Hell? Or a combination of H/H and
reincarnation?
>
>I hope I start what I did with the GS, "It was only a simple question..."
>
>-Andrew
>
>************************************************** *************************
>>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

[Lee]

Well, I'll jump in with what little I have gleaned from the books. The
Rjurik Highlands IIRC mentioned that they believe that up in the ice of
Thaelasia, there is a place something like the Happy Hunting Grounds, or
Valhalla, but something else hinted that they do not believe in any afterlife,
that one can only "live on" in the songs of the skalds. I do not recall
anything from the BoP, which is where it certainly should be.
"Greatheart" said that the spirits of the sidhe climbed a staircase to
become the stars at night.
This has bothered me a bit, but I haven't resolved it yet. I guess
Cerilians really do not have an afterlife, except the sidhe. That is
certainly a switch from most fantasy worlds, and one of the things I like
about BR is its unique-ness, so I think I will embrace that.


Lee.

[Tim Nutting]

The Rjurik do not, according to "the Rjurik Highlands" (thought about quoting
but it's a bit long). In short they believe that the spirit is returned to the
earth and becomes once more a part of the world that created it, thence they
are technically immortal, but not distinct. They believe that only the
greatest of them is reincarnated to serve Erik in a new form.

There is nothing on the Anuirean view of the Cosmos, but speculating that they
are very European in nature and that Haelyn's church is very similar in form
and function to more militant sects of the Catholic church in the Middle Ages,
I imagine their view to be along the lines of the Judeo-Christian views.
However, as the world is pantheistic and there are differences, I imagine
admittance is more based on works rather than grace.

The Vos I have not read (haven't found TotHW yet), but since they are so very
Slavic, and are ruled by their dark gods, I'd guess they look as the afterlife
in a grim fashion with only the most brutal being favored and suffered by
Belinik so that they can have eternal life, the rest being consigned to a pit
of darkness or some such.

Cities of the Sun says nothing about Khinasi Afterlife, but they have a very
Lawful approach to everything, and they are very Middle Eastern in form and
custom, so I'd guess there is some sort of Heaven/Paradise that they believe
in, with admittance being governed by how much "sayim" the petitioner has
earned in life.

The Brecht are VERY pragmatic, and I don't have Havens of the Great Bay handy
to look and see. I'd hesitate to guess on their afterlife view, but I suppose
it to be close to the Anuirean viewpoint since they've been dominated for so
long by that race.

Tim Nutting
(Hey, I'm only an AFA, hehehe)

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Fri, 23 Oct 1998, Tim Nutting wrote:

> The Rjurik do not, according to "the Rjurik Highlands" (thought about quoting
> but it's a bit long). In short they believe that the spirit is returned to the
> earth and becomes once more a part of the world that created it, thence they
> are technically immortal, but not distinct. They believe that only the
> greatest of them is reincarnated to serve Erik in a new form.
>
> There is nothing on the Anuirean view of the Cosmos, but speculating that they
> are very European in nature and that Haelyn's church is very similar in form
> and function to more militant sects of the Catholic church in the Middle Ages,
> I imagine their view to be along the lines of the Judeo-Christian views.
> However, as the world is pantheistic and there are differences, I imagine
> admittance is more based on works rather than grace.

The BoP names realms for each of these deities, and I've always assumed
that those realms served not only as a summer home for the gods, but as
the actual "heaven" to which the god's dedicated followers go when they
die (assuming that they are not snatched and prevented from doing so by
the Shadow World). I play that almost all of these religions hold that it
is very important for priests to conduct "last rites" or funerary
devotions for the deceased, because it creates a connection between the
corpse and the God's plane that allows the soul to find its way through
the Shadow World and to its eternal reward. As you point out, however,
it does make a certain amount of sense for the Rjuric to believe in a sort
of spiritual reincarnation, it fits well. But I had definitely imagined a
sort of heaven for every other god or goddess, with being stuck in the
Shadow World sort of taking the place of hell (or, worse yet, if an enemy
priest, say of Kriesha or Belenik gets a hold of a paladin's body, and
zaps his soul into the presence of his god, that would be tormenuous as
well, probably the worse case scenario.)

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[Morg]

Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:

> I play that almost all of these religions hold that it
> is very important for priests to conduct "last rites" or funerary
> devotions for the deceased, because it creates a connection between the
> corpse and the God's plane that allows the soul to find its way through
> the Shadow World and to its eternal reward.
>

I really like this idea Mark. Too often it seems that players just chalk up a dead
NPC/PC to the dice, and walk away without so much as a thought to the 'burial' of
said character. How many Dm's have actually had their PC's carry a fallen comrade
out of the dungeon or buried him? In my experience, most seem to leave "Bob the
Barbarian' where he fell, uncerimoniously as the troll they just cut up into a
gazillion pieces.

I seem to recall an excellent post made by Darkstar awhile back that had a
description for all the different 'planes' where the Gods lived. If Ian could repost
that certain work, I for one, would be grateful, as my hard copy was the recieving
medium for one of my kid's water pistols..... :(

Keith

- --
"I am your humble knight, and I swear allegiance to the courage and power in your
veins.
So strong it is, it's source must be Uther Pendragon."
The Draftmine (Home of the Brass Boar & other Oddities.)
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/draftmine/
Brenna's Blood Secret PbeM (A Haven's of the Great Bay PBeM.)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dungeon/2239/index.htm

[Tim Nutting]

> I seem to recall an excellent post made by Darkstar awhile back that had a
> description for all the different 'planes' where the Gods lived. If Ian
could repost
> that certain work, I for one, would be grateful, as my hard copy was the
recieving
> medium for one of my kid's water pistols..... :(
>
> Keith

Ouch.....

Don't know Ian's source, but I am aware that "On Hallowed Ground" (a Planescape
reference) has material on the homes of the "Aebyrnis Gods" (actually the only
place I am positive Cerilia's crystal sphere is named...).

I think it is thus:
Haelyn Mount Celestia
Avani Mechanus
Belinik Pandemonium
Erik Elysium

There is some more, but I don't remember off hand, I'll have to find my book
(somewhere around here....) However, you can extrapolate by comparing godly
alignments from the BoP or from the Rulebook and checking the planar alignment
in the back of the DMG.

Game on. (without the squirtguns!)
Tim Nutting

[darkstar]

Tim Nutting wrote:
>
> > I seem to recall an excellent post made by Darkstar awhile back that had a
> > description for all the different 'planes' where the Gods lived. If Ian
> could repost
> > that certain work, I for one, would be grateful, as my hard copy was the
> recieving
> > medium for one of my kid's water pistols..... :(

I think I know the info you are refering too. I don't seem to have a
copy on my computer anywhere so I will have to rewrite it and send it
again from the rough paper copy that is lying around somewhere on my
desk. If I get time I will do it tonight and post it to the list again.

It was originally intended as something I was going to do more work on,
but I never got the time.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://www.box.net.au/~hoss

ICQ: 2938300 AIM: IHoskins

[BenandAmy]

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tim Nutting
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Date: Saturday, October 24, 1998 1:54 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Heaven and Hell


>> I seem to recall an excellent post made by Darkstar awhile back that had
a
>> description for all the different 'planes' where the Gods lived. If Ian
>could repost
>> that certain work, I for one, would be grateful, as my hard copy was the
>recieving
>> medium for one of my kid's water pistols..... :(
>>
>> Keith
>
>Ouch.....
>
>Don't know Ian's source, but I am aware that "On Hallowed Ground" (a
Planescape
>reference) has material on the homes of the "Aebyrnis Gods" (actually the
only
>place I am positive Cerilia's crystal sphere is named...).
>
>I think it is thus:
>Haelyn Mount Celestia
>Avani Mechanus
>Belinik Pandemonium
>Erik Elysium
>
>There is some more, but I don't remember off hand, I'll have to find my
book
>(somewhere around here....) However, you can extrapolate by comparing
godly
>alignments from the BoP or from the Rulebook and checking the planar
alignment
>in the back of the DMG.
>
>Game on. (without the squirtguns!)
>Tim Nutting



Tim, these are listed in the BoP also. The description of each god has
a "Domain Name" category which tells that god's place of residence.
These are listed:

Avani--The Gleaming Spire/Mechanus
Erik--Nature's Rest/Outlands
Haelyn--Honor's Glory/Mount Celestia
Belinik--The Striving/2nd Layer/Pandemonium
Nesirie--The Waves of Grief/Thalasia/Elysium
Sera--The Marketplace Eternal/The Outlands
Cuiraecen--Cuiraecen's Feasthall/Ysgard
Eloele--Endless Maze/1st Layer/Pandemonium
Kriesha--The Steadfast Chill/Stygia/Baator
Laerme--Songsheight/Olympus/Arborea
Ruornil--The Silver Lands/Outlands