Craig Greeson
10-06-1998, 12:21 PM
J. D. Lail wrote:
> >Craig Greeson said
>
> >Of course, there is nothing preventing wizards from creating guilds and
> >raking in the obscene sums that trade routes can produce, with the notable
> >exception of mass paranoia that would probably ensue with local guilders
> >and landed regents.
>
> If you are referring to an unlanded regent Wizard then I must disagree with
> you. An unlanded wizard can only only have a Trade Route if he has a Source
> of 7+ strength. Those are of course, darn rare. Unless of course you want
> to allow a wizard to have a trade route by means of a guild holding which,
> unless they are multiclassed they are not supposed to be able do.
- -snip-
I'm unaware of any rule, either written or implied, that limits wizards
from starting and holding guilds. Is there a reference to this somewhere
that I have missed? It is certainly true that a wizard can't gather any RP
from guild holdings or trade routes, but that should not preclude him/her
from starting guilds if desired. What I have typically seen done is the
wizard uses his own personal GB and RP to start a guild, and then has a
thief vassal become the nominal "ruler" of the guild/trade route network.
This isn't absolutely necessary, however. I don't believe the BR rules in
any way prevent any class from controlling any type of holding. I know the
BoM is very clear that non-wizards can control sources, even though they
can't tap their power.
I would contend that wizards with decent numbers of source holdings are in
a fairly good position both to start guilds (if desired, personally I don't
like to see this happen since it's quite un-wizardly) and also to prevent
landed rulers from ruling up provinces. Wizards with significant source
holdings can often gather large #s of RPs they can pretty much use in any
discretionary way they want. The landed ruler may want to rule up his
province, but he also has to spend RPs to fend off both openly hostile and
potentially hostile regents in the area. My experience with wizards, on
the other hand, is they are largely ignored unless they're being openly
hostile or another regent needs a favor from them. Thus, they can use the
RPs they gather for either building trade networks (again, I don't like
this) or for opposing the success rolls of landed regents wishing to rule
up a province.
>Resume Craig Greeson said;
> >When playing a warrior regent (I'm assuming with a domain of mainly law
> >and provinces, though you could have a fighter rule a guild if you wanted to
> >I suppose, he just wouldn't do well), you have several advantages to balance
> >the wealth of guilds and priests. To knock down a wizard, just rule up your
> >provinces when you get a chance, he'll lose power at the same time as you
> >gain it, net effect he loses _fast_.
>
> This is a great weakness of the Wizard Class, imo. Their Sources can be
> taken away by a province ruler at any time, without contesting. IMHO that
> should be changed so that before a province ruler can rule up a province
> he must contest the source away.
As a wizard-friendly DM, I think I like the idea that the need for
contesting sources would make it even more difficult for landed regents to
rule up province levels. Does this give the wizard too much of an
advantage over landed rulers? BR is supposed to be a magic-low campaign,
would this shift the balance of power? If a wizard doesn't like all the
humans running about spoiling his sources, I suppose he can always unleash
a death plague or 2.....
Regards
Craig
> >Craig Greeson said
>
> >Of course, there is nothing preventing wizards from creating guilds and
> >raking in the obscene sums that trade routes can produce, with the notable
> >exception of mass paranoia that would probably ensue with local guilders
> >and landed regents.
>
> If you are referring to an unlanded regent Wizard then I must disagree with
> you. An unlanded wizard can only only have a Trade Route if he has a Source
> of 7+ strength. Those are of course, darn rare. Unless of course you want
> to allow a wizard to have a trade route by means of a guild holding which,
> unless they are multiclassed they are not supposed to be able do.
- -snip-
I'm unaware of any rule, either written or implied, that limits wizards
from starting and holding guilds. Is there a reference to this somewhere
that I have missed? It is certainly true that a wizard can't gather any RP
from guild holdings or trade routes, but that should not preclude him/her
from starting guilds if desired. What I have typically seen done is the
wizard uses his own personal GB and RP to start a guild, and then has a
thief vassal become the nominal "ruler" of the guild/trade route network.
This isn't absolutely necessary, however. I don't believe the BR rules in
any way prevent any class from controlling any type of holding. I know the
BoM is very clear that non-wizards can control sources, even though they
can't tap their power.
I would contend that wizards with decent numbers of source holdings are in
a fairly good position both to start guilds (if desired, personally I don't
like to see this happen since it's quite un-wizardly) and also to prevent
landed rulers from ruling up provinces. Wizards with significant source
holdings can often gather large #s of RPs they can pretty much use in any
discretionary way they want. The landed ruler may want to rule up his
province, but he also has to spend RPs to fend off both openly hostile and
potentially hostile regents in the area. My experience with wizards, on
the other hand, is they are largely ignored unless they're being openly
hostile or another regent needs a favor from them. Thus, they can use the
RPs they gather for either building trade networks (again, I don't like
this) or for opposing the success rolls of landed regents wishing to rule
up a province.
>Resume Craig Greeson said;
> >When playing a warrior regent (I'm assuming with a domain of mainly law
> >and provinces, though you could have a fighter rule a guild if you wanted to
> >I suppose, he just wouldn't do well), you have several advantages to balance
> >the wealth of guilds and priests. To knock down a wizard, just rule up your
> >provinces when you get a chance, he'll lose power at the same time as you
> >gain it, net effect he loses _fast_.
>
> This is a great weakness of the Wizard Class, imo. Their Sources can be
> taken away by a province ruler at any time, without contesting. IMHO that
> should be changed so that before a province ruler can rule up a province
> he must contest the source away.
As a wizard-friendly DM, I think I like the idea that the need for
contesting sources would make it even more difficult for landed regents to
rule up province levels. Does this give the wizard too much of an
advantage over landed rulers? BR is supposed to be a magic-low campaign,
would this shift the balance of power? If a wizard doesn't like all the
humans running about spoiling his sources, I suppose he can always unleash
a death plague or 2.....
Regards
Craig