Nations

[hazard]

Halo everyone.
Every one around me thinks that the Vos are evil Russians (like in move’s :) ) but Anuirans are O.K. That goes on my nerves maybe because I am a Slav or because I hate prejudice. So I wont to ask everyone to rank nations. And give opinion on Vos people?

my ranking is:
1. Vos
2. Rjurik & Brecht
3. Khinasi
4. Anurian


Don’t get me wrong I was Anurian 7 times

[irdeggman]

Ranking for what? Enjoyability as a PC race? Level of Evil?

I find that all of them have their peculiarities (which is why they are subraces and not just different cultures).

I have most often played Anuirean - that is easy it was the first culture outlined and had the most initial products oriented towards them.

Playing a campaign in Brechtur is probably the most diverse - since theirs is the one clture that pretty much doesn't have animosity towards any of the others (except for elves of course). They border all of the other human cultures (something none of the others can claim) and they have a region where the humans and dwarves actually live together as well as the only halfling domain.

IMO playing Khinasi is the the most challenging because of their cultural aspects and tthat sayim issue. Very rewarding but not for a novice gamer.

Vos are an interesting brood. I don't see near the domain level of play there as in other areas. The temples are all evil, whichmakes it very difficult for players and DMs alike. Far too many core classes are looked upon with disdain or just plain 'outlawed' there. Pretty much there aren't any paladins (no temples per se) and the religious domination by Kriesha and Belnick make it very hard to survive. Arcane magic is hated so pretty much it is very difficult to fit in a wizard or even a bard. Roges (thieves in 2nd ed) are likewise not trusted. So pretty much players are limited to playing fighters and rangers. Pretty one dimensional.

Rjurik is another interesting place. Heavy on ranger and druid population. Not much trust for arcane spellcasters and only Erik is looked upon with regard. Bards there are different then in any other culture, having to be lawful and be the keepers of the history.

I think as far as playing goes I rank Vos at the bottom because of the severe limitations on variety of classes available. It is a unique culture as long as one wants to play a survivalist setting.

[RaspK_FOG]

I would have to say I put Rjurik on the top, since celtic tradition has a special place in my heart (really enjoyable) and the whole skald-and-druids theme is celtic, which is why only Erik has druids. Anuireans and Brecht are next, and Vos along with Khinasi run a close tertiary part of my enjoyment ( :huh: ).

Any subrace, however, can be particularly enjoyable...

[Osprey]

OK, Rasp, I really have to check you here again I'm afraid...skalds = Norse, bards = Celtic (though I've noted your fondness for bards in other threads :) - me too!). Druids are definitely Celtic though, no doubt about that. The whole blending of Celtic and Norse cultures in the Rjurik can be very confusing. In general, I've found they (the developers) tend to favor Norse as their primary archetype, with Celtic themes added in for flavor - the druids being the dominant Celtic aspect. Probably this is because the Sidhelien are so predominantly Gaelic in flavor that the Rjurik needed to be mainly Norse to distinguish them from the elves. My best educated guess, anyways.

Osprey

[Don E]

I think Duane summed up many of the aspect of the different cultures nicely. What I don't really agree with is to how great extent the Vos are poretrayed as evil. They do suffer under the usual cliché that most scandinavians and eastern europeans suffer under in RPGs by being a lot less 'civilized' than other cultures in the campaign setting.

My personal favourite would be the Anuireans. I don't find that the other cultures have the same level of political intrigue that I've come to appreciate so much in BR. I think this is one of the areas where a bit of creative rewriting from the DMs part could change Vosgard into an area of more interesting domain play. Instead of howling barbarians the Vos can just as well be played in a role similar to the russian principalities, with just as much political intrigue and machinations as in Anuire.

[Benjamin]

We also have to look at the two very distinct divisions within the Vos, the nova and torva (I hope I named them right!).

The nova are small minority of progressive, let's-build-a-better-world Vos. The rest are the traditional, kill-or-be-killed-in-Kriesha/Belinik's-name.

I really love the fact that the Vos were once great diviners and followers of Vorynn, corrupted by Azrai. Only now, 1500 years after Deismaar, are any Vos beginning to break free of Azrai's taint. Azrai was really powerful!

As TotHW sets it up, you can play some Vos realms and have a great time. But those are few and far between, and you always have to watch out for those nasty temples. I love the setting, though, which is why I ran a Vosgaard PBEM back in 1997. [Alas, that was in the days before we had started altering core rules to balance things in PBEMs, and 2 realms quickly had a lot of province 10s and started steamrolling. :( ] There are all sorts of unusual and interesting challenges available to toss as players that they will never see in an Anuirean campaign.

[geeman]

Most of the BR materials are written from the perspective of Anuireans,

read: Western Europeans. The "evils" of medieval Europe more often came

from the near East and were in many ways associated with slavs or other

further Eastern cultures. Many of those cultures became bogey men of

Western Europe. The Vos, being a slav/mongol combination are subject,

therefore, to a kind of double whammy of negative colour commentary. If

the colour commentary of the BR materials were written from the POV of the

Khinasi Anuireans would probably be stereotyped into violent, somewhat

foolhardy, imperialistic invaders. (An impression that is not without some

truth.)



If one goes through the TotHW text the actual characters described in that

text have a range of alignments that are pretty similar to the other

Cerilian cultures, all of which are replete with evil characters and evil

domains. Even the supposedly "good" races in fantasy gaming like elves and

halflings are in BR more than a little shaky on the good/evil line. Elves,

of course, have their deal with occasionally scragging innocent humans,

while halflings have a strange, ambiguous connection to the Shadow World

that is largely unexplored and unexplained.



If one wants to engage in a little deconstruction, the colour commentary

that describes the Vos in negative terms really says more about the

Anuireans than it does about their not-so-distant neighbors. It makes them

out to be a little xenophobic and paternalistic, not to mention ill-informed.



Gary

[irdeggman]

One of the main reasons that the Vos are perceived as evil is that they were they were the only human subrace to support Azrai and unlike the elves they didn't abandon him. Very important from a Cerilian historical standpoint.

Another point on skald/Rjurik. The Rjuik skald is (other than name) a Celtic bard. See the Celtic Book (I can't really remember the actual title but it was a 2nd ed TSR green cover book). The portrayal of bards is almost identical to that of the Rjurik. They even have the special dooms equivalent there. Awful good book for reference if one wants to play a Rjurik. I'll see if I can dig up the proper title later.

[RaspK_FOG]

OK, sorry for the thing about the name... It is true, though, that the Rjurik bard is closer to the Celtic bard than the Norse skalds. In any case, I like Scandinavia a lot, so this works out for me as well (just kidding; still, I like Scandinavia :D ).

Irdeggman, please, find that books name!!! *Puppy_Eyes.jpg*

[Solmyr]

That would be the Celts campaign sourcebook, one of the green cover historical sourcebooks for AD&D 2nd edition. Here you go:
http://www.rpgunited.com/product/default/tsr9376.html

[irdeggman]

Thanks Solmyr, yes that is the book.

In a friends home-built setting I was playing a foreign bard from a Celtic land and we used that resource for the PC. He was very interesting - a riddlmeister kit (from the Complete Bard Handbook) and was 'captured' and made a slave of the the major NPC (a different player's old PC) who was a powerful wizard. As my DM described it "Your character used to have all kinds of great magic stuff. . .before he was captured"

[Ksaturn]

"In the frozen darkness of Vossgard, the light is as far from your mind as the cold is close to your skin. Rare indeed is a name of the goddess of light spoken with reverence. When you fight everyday to survive against tooth, claw and spear the ways of the greedy seem petty. Few speak highly of Sirova beyond the walls of noblemen. To one shown no mercy by man, beast or life, little solace is taken in ‘noble honor’. Few but conquerors pray to Haylen here. As the world is crushed by snow and ice, none see the beauty of a leaf. Iraikhan can be a cruel enemy. For all magic is commanded by men who are feared and women who worship the ice. Who would look to it’s master? –such is the spirt of Vosguard"
- From the scrolls of Aron, Bardic elf and follower of Kane, before he went to Vosguard.

"evil is everywhere humans ply ceralia's lands, in both their hearts and those of their enemies. The sins of evil are entwined with our world as surely as the the virtues of good"
- Kane, Sorcerous exiled elf

"I hate Varsks"
- from the scrolls of Aron, after returning from Vosguard