Civ2 Application

[The Olesens]

Well I know some people out there play Civ2 and I'd like there help. I
am begining to make a Cerillian Scenerio. For right now I'd just like
to know what tech levels people think Anuireans/Khinasi/Bretcht are at.
Here is what I think:

Pottery
Map Makeing
Seafareing
Alphabet
Writing
Mathmatics
Warrior Code
Feudalism
Chivalry
Horseback Riding
Masonry
Currency
Bronze Working
Cerimonial Burial
Construction
Polytheism
Trade
Republic
Monarchy
Iron Working
Bride Building
Magnatism (thus Physics)
Physics
The Wheel


Those were (almost) for sure. These I am a little iffy about:

Invention
Engineering
Astronomy (thus Mysticism)
Mysticism
Philosophy
Medicine
University
Chemestry
Literacy (required for many above)
Banking
Theroy of Gravity
Economics
Stealth (just kidding)

[Pieter A de Jong]

At 08:28 AM 7/29/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Well I know some people out there play Civ2 and I'd like there help. I
>am begining to make a Cerillian Scenerio. For right now I'd just like
>to know what tech levels people think Anuireans/Khinasi/Bretcht are at.
>Here is what I think:
>
>Pottery
>Map Makeing
>Seafareing
>Alphabet
>Writing
>Mathmatics
>Warrior Code
>Feudalism
>Chivalry
>Horseback Riding
>Masonry
>Currency
>Bronze Working
>Cerimonial Burial
>Construction
>Polytheism
>Trade
>Republic
>Monarchy
>Iron Working
>Bride Building
>Magnatism (thus Physics)
>Physics
>The Wheel
>
>
>Those were (almost) for sure. These I am a little iffy about:
>
>Invention
Nope, getting to close to guns, also it gives Leonardo's Workshop which is
just way to much of an advantage for any one nation.
>Engineering
>Astronomy (thus Mysticism)
>Mysticism
>Philosophy
>Medicine
>University
>Chemistry (spelling corrected)
Nope, also getting to close to guns and engineers (explosives tech)
>Literacy (required for many above)
>Banking
>Theroy of Gravity
>Economics
>Stealth (just kidding)
I would however, consider making whichever religious tech that gives
Crusader units available, as no units of elephant cavalry have been seen in
the published material

>>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

Pieter A de Jong
Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

[The Olesens]

Jim Cooper wrote:

> FYI, last year I made a map of Cerilia using the map editor for Civ2 --
> its quite good, if I do say so myself. :D If anyone wants the file, I
> could send it over to ya. Oh, the map is a copy of the one on the
> cardstock sheet #5 (I think), which includes the known part of Aduria,
> the Taeleshore (or whatever you call it), Djapar, the Golden
> Archipelago, and the Dragon Isles.
>
> Cheers,
> Darren
>
>

I'd like to see it

[Jim Cooper]

FYI, last year I made a map of Cerilia using the map editor for Civ2 --
its quite good, if I do say so myself. :D If anyone wants the file, I
could send it over to ya. Oh, the map is a copy of the one on the
cardstock sheet #5 (I think), which includes the known part of Aduria,
the Taeleshore (or whatever you call it), Djapar, the Golden
Archipelago, and the Dragon Isles.

Cheers,
Darren

[Solmyr]

>>Invention
>Nope, getting to close to guns, also it gives Leonardo's Workshop which is
>just way to much of an advantage for any one nation.

It can be turned off (change its req to no). But I agree, invention isn't
yet well-developed in Cerilia.

>I would however, consider making whichever religious tech that gives
>Crusader units available, as no units of elephant cavalry have been seen in
>the published material
>
That's Monoteism, which hasn't yet been instituted in Cerilia (unless Azrai
comes back :) You could rename it to something else, like Holy War.

******************
Aleksei Andrievski
aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star
Visit the Archmage's Tower at
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html

[Jim Cooper]

Well, I have followed a similiar vein IMC as a civ2 game, where
technology becomes much more important -- which I feel is another unique
aspect of BR. Now, while I won't say I agree with some of Sid Meier's
technology tree, it suffices. Olesen, your list is great, but IMHO I
would add:

Engineering, Astronomy, Mysticism, Philosophy, University, and Literacy
to the 'for sure list', but I would take out magnetism, and physics.

Now IMC, several technologies are on the verge of being discovered (I
like to stress this in my game): Medicine (to me, this is white
necromancy, which my PC regent of Ilien practices) which will lead him
to a "Darwin's Voyage _Wonder advance_" (where the discoverer begins to
understand the ties between each of the races & their role in my 'big
plan'); Invention, Monotheiesm (this is a big one my PC of Talinie is
working hard towards), Chemistry & Physics (College of Sorcery is
working hard on these ones), Banking & Economics (Endier wants to work
on these ones more). Gunpowder, and a technology called "black sulphur"
(oil) has just been discovered - courtesy of the dwarves (although the
Taliniean regent I don't think realizes that his domain just discovered
the latter).

Towards this end, I have made up a new facet to the rules: science.
Basically, domains produce a number of "science points" (beakers, in
civ2) towards a certain technology I set at the beginning of the
campaign. Basically it works out to a number of points equal to the
capital's tax output on 'light'. Thus, IMC it will take Cerilians a
LONG time to actually advance to an actual modern society (I estimated
it would take another 800-1000 years). Anyway, I could email anyone
interested and go in more depth about this, if anyone is interested.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention in my previous post that last year I also
made up a Cerilian scenario too - the date is winter 550 MR, the title
"The Second Shadow War". All of Cerilia is plunged into war!

Cheers,
Darren

[morgramen]

Here comes my thoughts on the advancement(s) which may or may not be used in a
Birthright setting. I have used some of these ideas in other campaigns, and
have found that the player(s) who have created the item, are very proud of their
ingenuity, and generally scares the bejeebies out of the NPCs. (Fear usually
results in an attack right?)

Anyway, these ideas & comments were sparked by the thread regarding the CivII
thread. Take them for what you will, and maybe we'll get some good ideas of
what the next century will look like for Abernyis...Given that most AD&D
players/Dms don't want missiles and hand grenades, but what's wrong with someone
using the 'research facility' option to stumble upon the discovery that agent
"A" + agent "b" equals a nasty little explosion? This would take several action
rounds (if not domain turns) to discover, and then several more to refine to a
point where it could actually be harnessed in some way. Naturally, most new
technologies are first incorporated for their 'destructive qualities', so image
the shock when a Grabentod Pirate ship lobs a 'chlorine bag' onto the decks of a
Muden ship!

It doesn't have to be a huge explosion, nor a spectacular result. Of course,
the very presence of the item is a danger itself. Regent A might be able to
make a crude 'fire arm', but what if it explodes/backfires often & has very poor
range/aquracy? Even if the gas bag doesn't work well, it's appearance is going
to reflect the advancing technologies of a growing culture.

It has been my experience that players relish in the idea of being able to
invent a cool little 'techno item', even though a fireball would do the same
thing & be more precise (not to mention cheaper!) DM modifiers like those above
can easily restrict these new 'technologies' to keep things balanced, while at
the same time, giving the campaign a feeling/sense of advancement.

I have often heard folks say that the Brechts are on the verge of the
Renaissance, so these ideas should be reflected in the game as well. The DM
just has to temper them with common sense & tailor it to their own magic level
for his/her own campaign.

Anyway, that's my Rant for the day.

Save BR Man!

Keith


- --
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/draftmine

[morgramen]

> Towards this end, I have made up a new facet to the rules: science.
> Basically, domains produce a number of "science points" (beakers, in
> civ2) towards a certain technology I set at the beginning of the
> campaign. Basically it works out to a number of points equal to the
> capital's tax output on 'light'. Thus, IMC it will take Cerilians a
> LONG time to actually advance to an actual modern society (I estimated
> it would take another 800-1000 years). Anyway, I could email anyone
> interested and go in more depth about this, if anyone is interested.
>

I would be interested in hearing more of these rules! This sounds like a
workable system to me! Maybe you should consider submitting these rules to
the Netbook. I have often wondered how to represent technological /
ideological advancements in a Fantasy RPG. Tell me more....

Keith

- --
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/draftmine

[The Olesens]

Jim Cooper wrote:

> Well, I have followed a similiar vein IMC as a civ2 game, where
> technology becomes much more important -- which I feel is another unique
> aspect of BR. Now, while I won't say I agree with some of Sid Meier's
> technology tree, it suffices. Olesen, your list is great, but IMHO I
> would add:
>
> Engineering, Astronomy, Mysticism, Philosophy, University, and Literacy
> to the 'for sure list', but I would take out magnetism, and physics.
>
> Now IMC, several technologies are on the verge of being discovered (I
> like to stress this in my game): Medicine (to me, this is white
> necromancy, which my PC regent of Ilien practices) which will lead him
> to a "Darwin's Voyage _Wonder advance_" (where the discoverer begins to
> understand the ties between each of the races & their role in my 'big
> plan'); Invention, Monotheiesm (this is a big one my PC of Talinie is
> working hard towards), Chemistry & Physics (College of Sorcery is
> working hard on these ones), Banking & Economics (Endier wants to work
> on these ones more). Gunpowder, and a technology called "black sulphur"
> (oil) has just been discovered - courtesy of the dwarves (although the
> Taliniean regent I don't think realizes that his domain just discovered
> the latter).
>
> Towards this end, I have made up a new facet to the rules: science.
> Basically, domains produce a number of "science points" (beakers, in
> civ2) towards a certain technology I set at the beginning of the
> campaign. Basically it works out to a number of points equal to the
> capital's tax output on 'light'. Thus, IMC it will take Cerilians a
> LONG time to actually advance to an actual modern society (I estimated
> it would take another 800-1000 years). Anyway, I could email anyone
> interested and go in more depth about this, if anyone is interested.
>
> Oh yeah, I forgot to mention in my previous post that last year I also
> made up a Cerilian scenario too - the date is winter 550 MR, the title
> "The Second Shadow War". All of Cerilia is plunged into war!
>
> Cheers,
> Darren
>
> ************************************************** *************************
> > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

Cool. Send me the senerio and the stuff about scince points

[Jim Cooper]

Morgramen wrote:
> I would be interested in hearing more of these rules! This sounds like a workable system to me! Maybe you should consider submitting these rules to the Netbook. I have often wondered how to represent technological / ideological advancements in a Fantasy RPG. Tell me more....>

Well, I've gotta go to Vancouver this weekend, so I won't be able to
type in the info until next week at the earliest. (The stuff is on
paper that I wrote while I was living in Korea last year).

Cheers,
Darren

[Simon Graindorge]

>Well, I have followed a similiar vein IMC as a civ2 game, where
>technology becomes much more important -- which I feel is another unique
>aspect of BR. Olesen, your list is great, but IMHO I would add:
>
>Engineering, Astronomy, Mysticism, Philosophy, University, and Literacy
>to the 'for sure list', but I would take out magnetism, and physics.

I have to agree with Darren on this, but then I do think it makes a huge
difference how you personally see BR. I (as many of you are probably quite
aware =) ) really like the technology aspect of BirthRight, and so in my
campaigns, things tend to be quite advanced, though not really on a
world/global level. Let me clarify what I mean by saying that I often have a
few select PC's who are very technologically advanced (heh, heh - my players
will never get over the Isaac Newton and Leonardo DaVinci episode, but
that's another story altogether), while your average commoner is pretty much
still in the classic medieval stage. Also, IMC, the dwarves are very much
technologically advanced, far beyond humans, especially in areas like
metallurgy, mechanics, etc, while I like to play the elves as somewhat
"barbaric" (they have magic to overcome lack of technology).

So, IMO, I would also add some other technologies to the "definite" list,
though they may not be so widely known, such as

* gunpowder (and obviously the prerequisites) - although not so common in
Anuire, and Rjurik, IMC, the dwarves and to a lesser degree Brecht have
access to gunpowder. Of course, the dwarves have refined it to somewhat of
an art, while the Brecht are still 'tinkering' with it.
*Steam Power (sorry, but it's been a long time since playing Civ2, and I
can't remember quite how far up the technology tree this is) - again, IMC,
technology is quite advanced, though not really outside of Brechtur, some
parts of Anuire and the dwarven nations. Though not very widely used on a
society level, the knowledge is there, and some people have started using it
to power various things. Again, it is very isolated, and there would really
be only a handful of people around Cerilia who have enough knowledge of it
to put it to good use.

>Towards this end, I have made up a new facet to the rules: science.
> Anyway, I could email anyone
>interested and go in more depth about this, if anyone is interested.

I, for one, would love to hear more about this, when you get some time to
type it up. Sounds like a great addition to the BR campaign.

>Oh yeah, I forgot to mention in my previous post that last year I also
>made up a Cerilian scenario too - the date is winter 550 MR, the title
>"The Second Shadow War". All of Cerilia is plunged into war!

any chance you can post this somewhere on the 'net for us to download?!?

Simon

[Jim Cooper]

Simon Graindorge wrote:
> >Oh yeah, I forgot to mention in my previous post that last year I also made up a Cerilian scenario too - the date is winter 550 MR, the title "The Second Shadow War". All of Cerilia is plunged into war!
>
> any chance you can post this somewhere on the 'net for us to download?!?

Well, sure, but I would like to fix one little problem in that scenario
first. You see, I can't quite figure out how to modify the barbarian
units (which I have made the awnsheghlien domains :D ), so I need to
figure out some way of building their home bases (like Kal-Saitharak).
Will look into this problem sometime next week, after I help my sister
move!

Cheers,
Darren