BR isn`t dead yet

[prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co]

BR isn't dead yet. The cover of the latest Dragon (#249) has a great cover of
Micheal Roele "grounding" his bloodline before being slain by the Gorgon. If BR
were secretly dead, I don't think pictures like this would make the cover.

Randax

[TOMMY.ASHTON@ASU.Ed]

Yeah, possibly but I don't know how Dragon is but usually in publishing the
works are done months before publication. Besides, Tony's cover was just
awesome. I bought the Dragon just for the cover, took the cover and gave the
rest of the Dragon to a friend. Up until recently everbody was gun-ho about
the relaunch of Birthright, first "later this year", next Ed's message that it
would be "sometime this year", and now the little "indefiniately" notice on
the TSR webpage. What I am trying to get at is these messages came out
within about three months time so the cover could have been to coincide with
the original planned release of the New Birthright rules. I hate to be the
doubting Thomas (pun intended) but I have seen this situation with the Marvel
RPG (1st ed.) and three or four versions of Champions lines. It doesn't look
good. I sent a message to Ed to send on to Adkison praising Birthright and
did not get a response, even from Ed. For Ed, who used to respond to
everything, even when we told him not to, this is scary. Hold your breath,
say your prayers, cross your fingers, and keep your lucky item handy and hope
that TSR doesn't blow a good thing away.

T

On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Randall W. Porter@6550 wrote:

>
> BR isn't dead yet. The cover of the latest Dragon (#249) has a great cover of
> Micheal Roele "grounding" his bloodline before being slain by the Gorgon. If BR
> were secretly dead, I don't think pictures like this would make the cover.
>
> Randax
> ************************************************** *************************
> > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

[Taragin@sprintmail.co]

The DRAGON cover mentioned was actually supposed to be the cover of the
BOOK OF REGENCY, but since that was postponed in its release…

[RLaRue@aol.co]

Randax said:

>

Or.... that was to be the cover of the Book of Regency and since we won't be
seeing that, they wanted to at least use the art they'd paid Tony for.

Lisa Stevens said in the Council of Greyhawk chat a few days ago that
Birthright, while a great setting, had horrible sales (this is not a big
secret). The line is now under review and all products are on hold
indefinitely. :( This is not a direct quote, but it is the basic idea. If
anyone has the specifics, please add to or correct this information.

With Alternity's release this year and Greyhawk's big return next year (this
year was Greyhawk's small return), we won't see a Birthright revival until Y2K
at the earliest. And, if my guess is right, Y2K will be the release of AD&D
3rd Edition using modified Alternity rules. To coincide with the release of
3rd edition. we'll see the first official setting for the new rules, Dominia
of Magic the Gathering fame.

Maybe Y2K+1...

Rick

PS I just want everyone know, I really hope I'm wrong (God knows I have been
before ;). We'll know for sure one way or the other when Dungeon magazine
stops taking Birthright submissions.

PPS How's it going Randax?

[DKEvermore@aol.co]

In a message dated 98-07-02 15:07:09 EDT, you write:

> BR isn't dead yet. The cover of the latest Dragon (#249) has a great cover
> of
> Micheal Roele "grounding" his bloodline before being slain by the Gorgon.
> If BR
> were secretly dead, I don't think pictures like this would make the cover.
>

I don't see the logic. They used a Birthirght picture but the issue, AFAIK,
contains no Birthright info, either. They're just using a snazzy picture, and
that's all.

- -DKE

[prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co]

- ----- Begin Included Message -----
Randax said:

>

Or.... that was to be the cover of the Book of Regency and since we won't be
seeing that, they wanted to at least use the art they'd paid Tony for.

Lisa Stevens said in the Council of Greyhawk chat a few days ago that
Birthright, while a great setting, had horrible sales (this is not a big
secret). The line is now under review and all products are on hold
indefinitely. :( This is not a direct quote, but it is the basic idea. If
anyone has the specifics, please add to or correct this information.

With Alternity's release this year and Greyhawk's big return next year (this
year was Greyhawk's small return), we won't see a Birthright revival until Y2K
at the earliest. And, if my guess is right, Y2K will be the release of AD&D
3rd Edition using modified Alternity rules. To coincide with the release of
3rd edition. we'll see the first official setting for the new rules, Dominia
of Magic the Gathering fame.

Maybe Y2K+1...

Rick

PS I just want everyone know, I really hope I'm wrong (God knows I have been
before ;). We'll know for sure one way or the other when Dungeon magazine
stops taking Birthright submissions.

PPS How's it going Randax?

- ----- End Included Message -----

Stooooop! You're frightening me with your logic. I don't work in publishing,
but Rick's line of reasoning sounds all to familiar to someone who lives in
corporateland. If true, I might as well consider the setting dead and just
keep my eye open to see if it gets revived sometime. I didn't play D&D for 15
years (1980-1995) until BR came along. A three year hiatus would send me to
other games. So many games, so little time.

The sad part about this is that I didn't go to GenCon during the same time
frame. Hey, if you don't play D&D why go? If there's no BR events at the Con
(last year was great!) I don't see too much point in attending. I've met a lot
of great folks at GenCon, Rick, Blastin, Memnoch and other great BR players
who I should write but never do. I would sorely miss their company.

Speaking of missing, I've accepted a new supervisory post at my company. With
the job comes a close scrutiny of my computer activities. This means I'll
probably have to type the dreaded spell of dismissal know as 'unsubscribe' the
end of this week. I'll miss the intelligent, measured discussions of the
fictitous world we all love. I learned a lot.


Hopefully I'll still see a few of you a GenCon.

Randax

[veryfastperson@juno.com]

>Lisa Stevens said in the Council of Greyhawk chat a few days ago that
>Birthright, while a great setting, had horrible sales (this is not a
>big
>secret).

The reason that it had horrible sales, is that it was horribly marketed.
I mean no disrespect, but i have just come to BR of late (well, last year
is when i basically came to love BR - and THAT's when i started buyin all
their products. but how long has it been out? and i just found it last
year?) and am now trying to buy all that remains in my stores of the BR
material. I actually found birthright from the card game Spellfire - when
their kicker pack released the new Birthright cards. it interested me, so
i picked up the campaign setting. and even spellfire had bad marketing. i
think i was one of the only 3 people in all of upstate new york that ever
bought spellfire cards (some, please, correct me if i am wrong)

I remember in economics this last year (hey i just graduated from HS, so
this stuff is relatively fresh in my mind:) the three P's of marketing.
Product - TSR has a great product with Birthright; Price - hey, i was a
poor high school senior but had enough for some of the big stuff. no
complaint here; and Promotion - that is the only place that i think TSR
fell pretty bad with Birthright. with darksun, and forgotten realms, even
Dragon lance, there are tons of other accessories; my personal favorites
were the Books (that also brought me to birthrigth when i picked up Iron
Throne, and the Spider's test with a gift certificate i recieved:). Books
gave us a good starting point to "get to know" the world. Forgotten
realms has run a little crazy with the NPC's and so too with Dark Sun (i
haven't read any DragonLance books, so i can't comment there). Birthright
did a good job of not running away with high level characters and such,
but there has only been 5 books put to print (As far as i know). I know
this because i have all five, and have been waiting for a sixth book to
hit the shelves. but i heard the Falcon and the Wolf got cancelled, so i
was bummed.

Birthright is a great place, but it has a stereotype of being too
political. I know this from experience with my gaming group. they found
the rules to complex, and thus, we just found Cerilia to be a land of
great adventure, and other people can rule it. I didn't mind this, but i
think if there had been more literature and such for them to read - they
would have come to love birthright as much as i have.

Well, enough of my ranting. If birthright is a dead fish, i guess that
means i'll have to go buy that book of priestcraft before it's gone
(there's only 2 copies left!). So my rant will end here.

Thanks,
Erik

>The line is now under review and all products are on hold
>indefinitely. :( This is not a direct quote, but it is the basic
>idea. If
>anyone has the specifics, please add to or correct this information.
>
>With Alternity's release this year and Greyhawk's big return next year
>(this
>year was Greyhawk's small return), we won't see a Birthright revival
>until Y2K
>at the earliest. And, if my guess is right, Y2K will be the release
>of AD&D
>3rd Edition using modified Alternity rules. To coincide with the
>release of
>3rd edition. we'll see the first official setting for the new rules,
>Dominia
>of Magic the Gathering fame.
>
>Maybe Y2K+1...
>
>Rick
>
>PS I just want everyone know, I really hope I'm wrong (God knows I
>have been
>before ;). We'll know for sure one way or the other when Dungeon
>magazine
>stops taking Birthright submissions.
>
>PPS How's it going Randax?
>
>----- End Included Message -----
>
>Stooooop! You're frightening me with your logic. I don't work in
>publishing,
>but Rick's line of reasoning sounds all to familiar to someone who
>lives in
>corporateland. If true, I might as well consider the setting dead and
>just
>keep my eye open to see if it gets revived sometime. I didn't play
>D&D for 15
>years (1980-1995) until BR came along. A three year hiatus would send
>me to
>other games. So many games, so little time.
>
>The sad part about this is that I didn't go to GenCon during the same
>time
>frame. Hey, if you don't play D&D why go? If there's no BR events at
>the Con
>(last year was great!) I don't see too much point in attending. I've
>met a lot
>of great folks at GenCon, Rick, Blastin, Memnoch and other great BR
>players
>who I should write but never do. I would sorely miss their company.
>
>Speaking of missing, I've accepted a new supervisory post at my
>company. With
>the job comes a close scrutiny of my computer activities. This means
>I'll
>probably have to type the dreaded spell of dismissal know as
>'unsubscribe' the
>end of this week. I'll miss the intelligent, measured discussions of
>the
>fictitous world we all love. I learned a lot.
>
>
>Hopefully I'll still see a few of you a GenCon.
>
>Randax
>
>************************************************** *************************
>To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
>line
>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

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[Daniel McSorley]

> From: Morgramen the Magician
> > Birthright is a great place, but it has a stereotype of being too
> > political. I know this from experience with my gaming group. they found
> > the rules to complex, and thus, we just found Cerilia to be a land of
> > great adventure, and other people can rule it. I didn't mind this, but
i
> > think if there had been more literature and such for them to read -
they
> > would have come to love birthright as much as i have.
> >
> I agree that Birthright has gotten a 'bad rap' as too political. It
seems
> to me that it was marketed as a strategical war game (which it is) but
should
> also have been supported by the typical Forgotten Realms/Greyhawk style
of
> typical role playing material. I truly believe that if TSR had
supported the
> existing material with the more typical role playing supplements, then
> Birthright would have appealed to a much larger market. I must say
however,
> that the existing material can easily be adapted for the more traditional
> fantasy realm style of play, but IMHO, many people either a) Did not want
to do
> the extra work or b) never bought into BR as a result of this lack.
> Now as I understand things, TSR was going to do this very thing with
the
> relaunch of the product line, and if my opinion counts for anything, I
think
> they should. A cleaner version of the existing rules, and greater depth
on the
> setting and NPC's (such as seen in FR & Greyhawk) could only draw new
> customers. I mean, we would all still buy the new products, and all the
people
> who hated BR because of it's 'traditional inadequacies' would no doubt
take a
> second look at the product line. Hence, sales could only IMPROVE!

OK, this is the idealist in me speaking. He doesn't get out very much,
usually my cynical side kicks him around, so I'll let him go for a bit...
The political stuff is the fun of BR! It's what sets it apart from
Greyhawk and the Realms, etc etc. W/o domain stuff, BR would just be
another generic fantasy setting, admittedly with rather well developed
cultures. And I love the domain stuff. It is fun to play a struggling
regent, just starting out with barely a footman to your name. And it is
really rewarding to get him up to having a well developed, well defended,
civilized realm, a power to be reckoned with, and to start wheeling and
dealing with the big boys, Avanil and the Gorgon, or whoever. That's what
drew me to the setting, that's why it's the only TSR setting I run (though
I have a soft spot in my heart for Spelljammer, the red headed stepchild of
sci-fi games). People that don't see that bother me. It reminds me of the
interview with Gary Gygax, in Dragon mag, where he said roleplaying and
storytelling needs to be ignored, and action should rule (paraphrased).
That hurts. And if that's the general consensus of the gamers out there,
then that may be why BR didn't do so well. But I hope not.
Now, I'll let my cynical side take over. Money talks, and due to
marketing, el Nino, or some rare conjunction of the stars, BR must not have
been making money like TSR hoped, or it wouldn't be on hiatus now. Part of
this may be the production values of the boxes, those things were
beautiful, and it must have cost a fortune to produce. So anyway, if we
get BR back, it will be changed, no doubt. I'd expect more Tribes type
stuff, you know, kinda scaled back, and less BR boxed set glory, but that's
ok. What we also need are some good adventures. I never bought any of the
adventures for BR, they mainly seemed pretty bad. They weren't consistent,
they seemed kinda rushed and badly edited to me, and they had this creeping
generitzation feel, like the drow that showed up. BR needs some
spectacular stuff to attract attention. I think that's where the list
comes in.
There's a lot of creativity floating around here. The netbook is a good
testament to that. So write up some good adventures, and send them to
Dungeon. Like the current elven debacle, if we could pull an adventure out
of it, and include some sidebars that would showcase the way domain stuff
would fit in to that, that would be awesome!
As a final note, I don't think BR is gone. Ed and Carrie were good with
us in the past, and I'm going to put some of my faith in human nature in
them (it's in short supply for me). But the thing is, this has happened
before. On the Alternity list, we were dismayed when Alternity was delayed
and pushed back. The game wasn't even released yet, and we were all
excited. But they told us that never fear, it would arrive, and sure
enough it did, and is doing rather well as far as I know. And some of the
same people were involved in the hiatus for BR. Rich Baker, Jim Butler,
David Eckleberry, and Bill Slavicsek were the A-Team. Wasn't Bill the one
that put BR on hold? If he says it will be back, then I'd trust him on it,
cause it worked for Alternity.

Daniel McSorley- mcsorley.1@osu.edu

[bloebick@juno.com (Benja]

On Wed, 8 Jul 1998 04:49:58 -0400 "Daniel McSorley"
writes:
> The political stuff is the fun of BR! It's what sets it apart from
>Greyhawk and the Realms, etc etc. W/o domain stuff, BR would just be
>another generic fantasy setting, admittedly with rather well developed
>cultures. And I love the domain stuff.

>Daniel McSorley- mcsorley.1@osu.edu

Absolutely! It was the fact that the game was political that I bought it
when it came out. I've been a faithful player, quickly buying each
accessory and adventure as soon as it hit the shelves. I've always been
a backstabbing political gamer, even when playing D&D (currently Mystara)
on the old Isle of Dread! So Birthright was my cup of tea!

OK... so some of the adventures weren't too good. Alright, most of them
pretty much stunk, because they kept throwing in non-BR creatures, and
didn't really have any domain steps included. I think Warlock was pretty
interesting, but if your party could get through it in 1 month gaming
time, you were either gods or using wish spells. So you had to have a
domain action happen, but no setup for it. As a FR accessory, it would
have been maybe above average or so (not having played much FR, this may
be wrong). But Legends of the Hero Kings was pretty cool, I thought, and
that was the last released adventure.

I hope that Birthright is brought back, in way scaled down version. Big,
flashy, glowing boxes like we're used to are nice, but cost way to much.
Drop back to Tribes format (make higher quality maps, though - Tribes map
is too flimsy) and I'll still buy the stuff. Yeah, I may grumble a bit
because I'm used to the old stuff, but new players wouldn't know any
better. And a little publicity other than a picture saying "Be a King"
would help out some.

Well, that's my soap-box sermon. I'm done.

Benjamin

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[Morgramen the Magician]

Here comes my rant on the subject:

> The reason that it had horrible sales, is that it was horribly marketed.
> I mean no disrespect, but i have just come to BR of late (well, last year
> is when i basically came to love BR - and THAT's when i started buyin all
> their products.

I hate to be a "Me too'er", but this is about the same time that I fell in
love with BR. I had had the Box Set since it first came out, but retired it to
my shelves after looking at the pictures. It's fatal flaw (as I saw it then)
was it's over whelming (sp?) political structure, and poor organization & rule
descriptions. (I don't know how many times I read the rule books, but I never
actually *learned* how to play until I got on line and met all the wonderful
people on this list. Thanks to several of these individuals (you know who you
are) who actually took the time to answer my questions, I eventually learned how
to 'play' BR. I am still what I would consider a novice Birthrighter, but will
develop my skills with time.

> but how long has it been out? and i just found it last
> year?) and am now trying to buy all that remains in my stores of the BR
> material.

Again, "Me too."

> Birthright is a great place, but it has a stereotype of being too
> political. I know this from experience with my gaming group. they found
> the rules to complex, and thus, we just found Cerilia to be a land of
> great adventure, and other people can rule it. I didn't mind this, but i
> think if there had been more literature and such for them to read - they
> would have come to love birthright as much as i have.
>

I agree that Birthright has gotten a 'bad rap' as too political. It seems
to me that it was marketed as a strategical war game (which it is) but should
also have been supported by the typical Forgotten Realms/Greyhawk style of
typical role playing material. I truly believe that if TSR had supported the
existing material with the more typical role playing supplements, then
Birthright would have appealed to a much larger market. I must say however,
that the existing material can easily be adapted for the more traditional
fantasy realm style of play, but IMHO, many people either a) Did not want to do
the extra work or b) never bought into BR as a result of this lack.
Now as I understand things, TSR was going to do this very thing with the
relaunch of the product line, and if my opinion counts for anything, I think
they should. A cleaner version of the existing rules, and greater depth on the
setting and NPC's (such as seen in FR & Greyhawk) could only draw new
customers. I mean, we would all still buy the new products, and all the people
who hated BR because of it's 'traditional inadequacies' would no doubt take a
second look at the product line. Hence, sales could only IMPROVE!
Hey, if players can understand the intricacies of the Planescape setting,
playing a regent can't be much more difficult!

At least, that's the way I see it.

Morgramen

[Craig Mellare]

At 04:49 AM 8/7/98 -0400, you wrote:

>> From: Morgramen the Magician > > Birthright is a great place, but it has a stereotype of being too

>> > political. I know this from experience with my gaming group. they
found

>> > the rules to complex, and thus, we just found Cerilia to be a land
of

>> > great adventure, and other people can rule it. I didn't mind this,
but

>i

>> > think if there had been more literature and such for them to read=20
- -

>they

>> > would have come to love birthright as much as i have.

>> >

>> I agree that Birthright has gotten a 'bad rap' as too political. =20
It

>seems

>> to me that it was marketed as a strategical war game (which it is)
but

>should

>> also have been supported by the typical Forgotten Realms/Greyhawk
style

>of

>> typical role playing material. I truly believe that if TSR had

>supported the

>> existing material with the more typical role playing supplements,
then

>> Birthright would have appealed to a much larger market. I must say

>however,

>> that the existing material can easily be adapted for the more
traditional

>> fantasy realm style of play, but IMHO, many people either a) Did not
want

>to do

>> the extra work or b) never bought into BR as a result of this lack.

>> Now as I understand things, TSR was going to do this very thing
with

>the

>> relaunch of the product line, and if my opinion counts for anything,
I

>think

>> they should. A cleaner version of the existing rules, and greater
depth

>on the

>> setting and NPC's (such as seen in FR & Greyhawk) could only draw=20
new

>> customers. I mean, we would all still buy the new products, and all
the

>people

>> who hated BR because of it's 'traditional inadequacies' would no
doubt

>take a

>> second look at the product line. Hence, sales could only IMPROVE!

>

> OK, this is the idealist in me speaking. He doesn't get out very
much,

>usually my cynical side kicks him around, so I'll let him go for a
bit...

> The political stuff is the fun of BR! It's what sets it apart from

>Greyhawk and the Realms, etc etc. W/o domain stuff, BR would just be

>another generic fantasy setting, admittedly with rather well developed

>cultures. And I love the domain stuff. It is fun to play a=20
struggling

>regent, just starting out with barely a footman to your name. And it
is

>really rewarding to get him up to having a well developed, well
defended,

>civilized realm, a power to be reckoned with, and to start wheeling=20
and

>dealing with the big boys, Avanil and the Gorgon, or whoever. That's
what

>drew me to the setting, that's why it's the only TSR setting I run
(though

>I have a soft spot in my heart for Spelljammer, the red headed stepchild
of

>sci-fi games). People that don't see that bother me. It reminds me of
the

>interview with Gary Gygax, in Dragon mag, where he said roleplaying=20
and

>storytelling needs to be ignored, and action should rule (paraphrased).=20

>That hurts. And if that's the general consensus of the gamers out
there,

>then that may be why BR didn't do so well. But I hope not.

I agree with you that if you remove the domain turns and the ability to
play a ruler then BR would become just like ever other campaign world
except for the fact that it is extremely well though
out. This is the second main reason I also will only play in a BR
campaign, I like the fact the cultures seem to make sense. One of the
things that really bothered me about FR is that its cultures didn't seem
to make sense. You a European style culture in the centre, anciant egypt
in the south, more europe in the west with arabic in the south west but
then strange things like the land in the shing south (I forget which one)
which is likewise Euorpean in culture when none of its neighbours were.
The development of cultures was carried out in the hap haxard manner that
the campaign world was developed and I believe suffered for it. BR on the
other hand, has a well though out cultural development that sees things
like the Anuirean domains near the Khinasi being affected culturally by
its neighbourss ie Elinie or those near the Rjurik being likewise
affected by its neighbours, ie Dhoesone.

The other main advantage of BR is its a world where the fighter can
compete. FR is completely overrun with wizards, the only place of any
significance that is not ruler by wizards in FR is Cormyr and thats only
because the war wizards see fit to leave Azoun on the throne! In BR your
humble fighter can take advantage of the low magic nature of the world to
serve as some thing other than a wizards bodyguard/cannon fodder.

I am also horrified by the attitude that Gygax seems to typify. If you
are not interested in roleplaying and storytelling, why play D&D at all.
Those who are interested in just the action would be better served
playing a D&D style computer game were they can endlessly run through
pointless dungeons to kill their inhabitants and steal their treasure.


Craig

[James Ray]

LOL - It all depends on what you consider "role-playing". Surely, in every
game, there are times for role-playing, and then times for hacking and
slashing. Hacking and slashing is at the heart of AD&D. There are many
more rules for combat than there are for role-playing, and there is a
reason for that: role-playing varies widely from group to group, but
combat shouldnt. I havent read the Gygax interview, but I cant imagine
that he has advocated the end of role-playing, probably just the
long-winded and superfluous stuff. If you dont know what I mean by that,
then dont worry...you either arent doing it, or you LIKE it :) The big
test as to wether you have enough role-playing in your campaign..."Do you,
as DM, KNOW the PCs? What motivates them, what frightens them, what will
let them know its time to strike, or time to run?" (The WORST thing is for
your players' characters to keep hacking and slashing when they are
SUPPOSED to be running for cover). Character development, the most
important part of the role-playing, happens during play, or even during
free-form "supplemental" sessions (ahhh....you are in a local tavern, and
the ale is in the FRIDGE).

The political stuff is great, if you want it. If you DONT, Cerilia is
STILL a great place to adventure. I like the adventure modules, especially
since role-playing is so integral to their resolutions. At every turn, the
Pcs seem to risk alienating SOME-body when the dust settles, and they get
back to their capitals (sp?). As a matter of fact, the political stuff is
the engine behind most of my campaigns role-playing. There's no way to
hack and slash your way out of the "Matter of Justice Event" - well, no ver
effective ones, anyway :)

Birthright really sucks as a Tactical Warplaying Game, though. I still
cant make sense of the War Card rules (but dont tell my players...I'll
besieged with orders of invasions and declarations of war), and I hope that
THAT is what they change with the re-release. Im currently toying with the
idea of fine-tuning them myself, but WOW, the amount of work that would
take...

Birthright is, in my opinion, the most challenging setting TSR has,
especially for the DM. If one thing goes wrong, you end up having to
explain what THIS particular NPC was up to, WHO he was doing it for, etc
etc. EVERY stinking adventure leaves loose ends, and you never know WHICH
those pesky players are gonna want to follow up (hint - make just make sure
where the FIRST one leads :) BUT, its also a LOT of fun.

- ----------
I am also horrified by the attitude that Gygax seems to typify. If you
are not interested in roleplaying and storytelling, why play D&D at all.
Those who are interested in just the action would be better served
playing a D&D style computer game were they can endlessly run through
pointless dungeons to kill their inhabitants and steal their treasure.


Craig

[Clayton F. Hinton]

>
> I hate to be a "Me too'er", but this is about the same time that I
fell in
>love with BR.

"me too."


- -Clay

[Tim Nutting]

We'll see what happens in the future, neh? The "relaunch" is certainly
something to look forward too, but I for one am happy to have a complete
Cerilia. It's nice to have the entire continent detailed at last (Tribes -
at last!) but whether they come back to it or not is another issue.

Have you all written letters yet?

Sepsis hit on this a while ago, and while I haven't gotten a response yet
(nor do I anticipate receiving one) I've sent one in requesting the
continuation of BR.

Heck, bombard the upper management with email if you like too. They put
their addy's on the web site for a reason. Give the addy's to all your
players too, because I know most of us are DMs. Ya, the sales sucked, and
why is up to debate, but most of us feel it was due to bad marketing. It's
hard to fault them when the inside folks almost knew for certain the
company was dying. (We may decry WotC for taking TSR, but remember that if
they hadn't TSR would be getting its RIP)

If you all want BR to live, then let the powers that be know it. Ed and
Rich and Carrie and all the other TSR staffers that hit this list allready
KNOW we want it to live, and I think they do too, but we all work, or have
worked, in companies before. The people that need to know are folks like
Peter Adkisson, Bill Slavicsek, and others. Hit www.tsrinc.com and find
out who's who on the mail list and get them the cry:

Save Birthright!

I don't know any other setting that I've bought into that has inspired one
of my players to go out and buy EVERYTHING on the books. I mean it, I got
a new player a few months ago and he bought every single sourcebook and
adventure out there (and he even kept the adventures wrapped in plastic...
wow).

The other folks that need to know are the distributors. Tell your local
game shop that. TSR and WotC get their money when the distributor buys the
product from them...

Well, work calls!
L8R
Tim Nutting

[Sweet Home]

>From: "Tim Nutting"
>To:
>Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - BR isn't dead yet
>Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:38:26 -0700

They put
>their addy's on the web site for a reason. Give the addy's to all your
>players too, because I know most of us are DMs. Ya, the sales sucked,
and
>why is up to debate, but most of us feel it was due to bad marketing.
It's
>hard to fault them when the inside folks almost knew for certain the

Did you know that when it was originally released, the Forgotten Realms
sales sucked... I think that people are not going to buy products
without being sure it will be supported. That problem was created when
TSR began chopping products line. I think what people are thinking is:
Let's see what happens with this line of product and have some feedback
before we invest in them.

Like the majority of you I fell in love with the Birthright setting. I
never was a big buyer of TSR stuff but I now have a lot of birthright
sourcebooks, adventures, players domain and novels (actually I have all
the ones that were available at my hobby shop). The material is simply
awesome and I think anyone who does spend some time on it can deny this
fact. The world is incredibly alive and leaves doors open for any type
of game, hack n slash, political struggle or role play adventuring.

I don't personaly use any of the regent rules and use this world only
for an adventure setting for my players. But because of all the details
and all the features my players will never get bored.

I hope the folks at WoC will realise that to have a sucessfull world it
takes time and money. As new people discover the exquisite world of
Birthright they will just begin buying it. But so many new worlds were
created these last years people just don't like the idea to switching to
a new soon to be dead line...

Sylvain Tremblay

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