Sea Elves

[The Olesen`s]

Was "Mehigible and the Seas"



KirbyRanma@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 98-06-09 09:39:25 EDT, you write:
>
> > you guessed it, Sea Elves! >>
>
> I would personally hate to see sea elves develop. I think they were
> somewhat overdone in Dragonlance, but that may have been where their calling
> was. Off-hand, I don't recall another campaign setting that uses them that
> all the players would know of the sea elves (I'm not familiar enough with FR
> to know if they do or do not), but I don't recall them in Greyhawk or
> Planescape. I know they are not in Ravenloft and Dark Sun is right out. If
> we used sea elves, how "medieval" would they be? I don't see them as needing
> castles per se, but domes should be hard to build underwater. Also, if they
> do exist, who is their racial enemy? Kuo-toa?

- ---Sauhgin?---
Acording to the Big Book of Elves these are thier main enemies along
with sharks (who love Sea Elf, for dinner that is).



Crabmen? There
> would have to be enough of an enemy so the elves wouldn't have a monopoly in
> the oceans. Granted the Krakken, Leviathan and Sea Drake would eat them up
> yum, as if they were fish-heads, but the PCs wouldn't stand a chance against
> any of them. To make the fighting arena *equal,* you'd have to helms of
> underwater breathing, rings of free action, etc and then you've just upped the
> magic quantity level.
> As far as the "land" or body of water is concerned, how would you divide
> them up into provinces? Would you just do by water body type or by depth?

Use the martitime areas and make geographial features to match.

> Would the land/source values matter since you couldn't build any holdings in
> the water (no new holdings "dock," "port," or "peir" please)

Law, Guilds, and Sources would exist underwater (elves don't have gods
so..). NOt exactly the same as we see them on land but made out of
coral.

What exactly
> would consist of a realm spell and would you really want a whole bunch of new
> water-based spells coming your way when in an armada? If two navies fought,
> the first one to cast "Tsunami" would probably win, unless the other cast
> "Whirlpool" first and then they mutually destroyed themselves.


The Story of BR Sea Elves
by AO (me)

A long time ago all the elves lived on the land and in the forests.
Some wonder why very few elves go to the sea. This is because all the
elves who liked water left thier forest copanions and went to live in
the sea. They slowly adapted to the water. THey lived in the water and
fought the sea cousins of land elves. When the humans came to Cerillia
and chased the elves back into the deepest forests and despoiled the
land, the sea elves knew that they must remain hidden to make sure that
they don't befall the same fate as land elves.
Although sea elves typically swim with and help ships, the sea elves of
Cerillia are far too afraid of humans to do so. Even thoguh they know
humans are not suited to the water, they fear the humans could find a
way.
Very few sea elves are blooded (.00001%). THe ones that are disguised
themselves as land elves and fought on the side of goodness at Desimar
mostly near ?Masia.

Most of thier realm spells are underwater spells and do not even affect
the surface of the sea.

The sea elves long to help thier landbound cousins but are very weak on
land.



Well thats my story, based on the Complete Book of Elves.

[veryfastperson@juno.com]

Hmm, this whole idea of Sea elves sparks a question
How could any sea elf have a holding? I dont' remember hearing of
sea elves at diesmsaar - so even if they did have holdings, they wouldn't
be able to cast spells.


On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 07:26:30 -0400 "The Olesen's"
writes:
>Was "Mehigible and the Seas"
>
>
>
>KirbyRanma@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> In a message dated 98-06-09 09:39:25 EDT, you write:
>>
>> than,
>> > you guessed it, Sea Elves! >>
>>
>> I would personally hate to see sea elves develop. I think they
>were
>> somewhat overdone in Dragonlance, but that may have been where their
>calling
>> was. Off-hand, I don't recall another campaign setting that uses
>them that
>> all the players would know of the sea elves (I'm not familiar enough
>with FR
>> to know if they do or do not), but I don't recall them in Greyhawk
>or
>> Planescape. I know they are not in Ravenloft and Dark Sun is right
>out. If
>> we used sea elves, how "medieval" would they be? I don't see them
>as needing
>> castles per se, but domes should be hard to build underwater. Also,
>if they
>> do exist, who is their racial enemy? Kuo-toa?
>
>---Sauhgin?---
>Acording to the Big Book of Elves these are thier main enemies along
>with sharks (who love Sea Elf, for dinner that is).
>
>
>
> Crabmen? There
>> would have to be enough of an enemy so the elves wouldn't have a
>monopoly in
>> the oceans. Granted the Krakken, Leviathan and Sea Drake would eat
>them up
>> yum, as if they were fish-heads, but the PCs wouldn't stand a chance
>against
>> any of them. To make the fighting arena *equal,* you'd have to
>helms of
>> underwater breathing, rings of free action, etc and then you've just
>upped the
>> magic quantity level.
>> As far as the "land" or body of water is concerned, how would
>you divide
>> them up into provinces? Would you just do by water body type or by
>depth?
>
>Use the martitime areas and make geographial features to match.
>
>> Would the land/source values matter since you couldn't build any
>holdings in
>> the water (no new holdings "dock," "port," or "peir" please)
>
>Law, Guilds, and Sources would exist underwater (elves don't have gods
>
>so..). NOt exactly the same as we see them on land but made out of
>coral.
>
>What exactly
>> would consist of a realm spell and would you really want a whole
>bunch of new
>> water-based spells coming your way when in an armada? If two navies
>fought,
>> the first one to cast "Tsunami" would probably win, unless the other
>cast
>> "Whirlpool" first and then they mutually destroyed themselves.
>
>
>The Story of BR Sea Elves
>by AO (me)
>
>A long time ago all the elves lived on the land and in the forests.
>Some wonder why very few elves go to the sea. This is because all the
>
>elves who liked water left thier forest copanions and went to live in
>the sea. They slowly adapted to the water. THey lived in the water
>and
>fought the sea cousins of land elves. When the humans came to
>Cerillia
>and chased the elves back into the deepest forests and despoiled the
>land, the sea elves knew that they must remain hidden to make sure
>that
>they don't befall the same fate as land elves.
>Although sea elves typically swim with and help ships, the sea elves
>of
>Cerillia are far too afraid of humans to do so. Even thoguh they know
>
>humans are not suited to the water, they fear the humans could find a
>way.
>Very few sea elves are blooded (.00001%). THe ones that are disguised
>
>themselves as land elves and fought on the side of goodness at Desimar
>
>mostly near ?Masia.
>
>Most of thier realm spells are underwater spells and do not even
>affect
>the surface of the sea.
>
>The sea elves long to help thier landbound cousins but are very weak
>on
>land.
>
>
>
>Well thats my story, based on the Complete Book of Elves.
>************************************************** *************************
>To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
>line
>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

__________________________________________________ ___________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

[Andreas Kjeldsen]

> Hmm, this whole idea of Sea elves sparks a question
> How could any sea elf have a holding? I dont' remember hearing of
> sea elves at diesmsaar - so even if they did have holdings, they wouldn't
> be able to cast spells.

Sea elves could have bloodlines, since they didn't necessarily have
to fight on Deismaar itself. There were several naval battles going
on at the same time of the main battle on the mountain, which the Sea
elves could have taken part in. Most of the Masetians fought at sea,
and the Serpent was one of Azrai's admirals.
I will think more of this. I'll let you know.

Andreas Kjeldsen
morkitar@dadlnet.dk
ICQ# 12703652

-

[The Olesen`s]

Erik M Samhammer wrote:
>
> Hmm, this whole idea of Sea elves sparks a question
> How could any sea elf have a holding? I dont' remember hearing of
> sea elves at diesmsaar - so even if they did have holdings, they wouldn't
> be able to cast spells.

Elves can cast spells without bloodline.


>
> On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 07:26:30 -0400 "The Olesen's"
> writes:
> >Was "Mehigible and the Seas"
> >
> >
> >
> >KirbyRanma@aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >> In a message dated 98-06-09 09:39:25 EDT, you write:
> >>
> >> >than,
> >> > you guessed it, Sea Elves! >>
> >>
> >> I would personally hate to see sea elves develop. I think they
> >were
> >> somewhat overdone in Dragonlance, but that may have been where their
> >calling
> >> was. Off-hand, I don't recall another campaign setting that uses
> >them that
> >> all the players would know of the sea elves (I'm not familiar enough
> >with FR
> >> to know if they do or do not), but I don't recall them in Greyhawk
> >or
> >> Planescape. I know they are not in Ravenloft and Dark Sun is right
> >out. If
> >> we used sea elves, how "medieval" would they be? I don't see them
> >as needing
> >> castles per se, but domes should be hard to build underwater. Also,
> >if they
> >> do exist, who is their racial enemy? Kuo-toa?
> >
> >---Sauhgin?---
> >Acording to the Big Book of Elves these are thier main enemies along
> >with sharks (who love Sea Elf, for dinner that is).
> >
> >
> >
> > Crabmen? There
> >> would have to be enough of an enemy so the elves wouldn't have a
> >monopoly in
> >> the oceans. Granted the Krakken, Leviathan and Sea Drake would eat
> >them up
> >> yum, as if they were fish-heads, but the PCs wouldn't stand a chance
> >against
> >> any of them. To make the fighting arena *equal,* you'd have to
> >helms of
> >> underwater breathing, rings of free action, etc and then you've just
> >upped the
> >> magic quantity level.
> >> As far as the "land" or body of water is concerned, how would
> >you divide
> >> them up into provinces? Would you just do by water body type or by
> >depth?
> >
> >Use the martitime areas and make geographial features to match.
> >
> >> Would the land/source values matter since you couldn't build any
> >holdings in
> >> the water (no new holdings "dock," "port," or "peir" please)
> >
> >Law, Guilds, and Sources would exist underwater (elves don't have gods
> >
> >so..). NOt exactly the same as we see them on land but made out of
> >coral.
> >
> >What exactly
> >> would consist of a realm spell and would you really want a whole
> >bunch of new
> >> water-based spells coming your way when in an armada? If two navies
> >fought,
> >> the first one to cast "Tsunami" would probably win, unless the other
> >cast
> >> "Whirlpool" first and then they mutually destroyed themselves.
> >
> >
> >The Story of BR Sea Elves
> >by AO (me)
> >
> >A long time ago all the elves lived on the land and in the forests.
> >Some wonder why very few elves go to the sea. This is because all the
> >
> >elves who liked water left thier forest copanions and went to live in
> >the sea. They slowly adapted to the water. THey lived in the water
> >and
> >fought the sea cousins of land elves. When the humans came to
> >Cerillia
> >and chased the elves back into the deepest forests and despoiled the
> >land, the sea elves knew that they must remain hidden to make sure
> >that
> >they don't befall the same fate as land elves.
> >Although sea elves typically swim with and help ships, the sea elves
> >of
> >Cerillia are far too afraid of humans to do so. Even thoguh they know
> >
> >humans are not suited to the water, they fear the humans could find a
> >way.
> >Very few sea elves are blooded (.00001%). THe ones that are disguised
> >
> >themselves as land elves and fought on the side of goodness at Desimar
> >
> >mostly near ?Masia.
> >
> >Most of thier realm spells are underwater spells and do not even
> >affect
> >the surface of the sea.
> >
> >The sea elves long to help thier landbound cousins but are very weak
> >on
> >land.
> >
> >
> >
> >Well thats my story, based on the Complete Book of Elves.
>
>************************************************** *************************
> >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
> >line
> >'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
> >
>
> __________________________________________________ ___________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> ************************************************** *************************
> > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

[Daskinor@aol.co]

In a message dated 98-06-10 17:13:56 EDT, olesens writes:

>


But it says somewhere, I think in the Monstrous Manual, that Sea Elves can't
cast wizardly magic.

Although the reason for this is believed to have something to do with drow.
SO... it could be said that since there are no drow (or are there???
*sinister music* ), then they can cast.

I don't know, just a thought. What do you think?

Nathan

[DKEvermore@aol.co]

In a message dated 98-06-10 13:16:13 EDT, you write:

> Hmm, this whole idea of Sea elves sparks a question
> How could any sea elf have a holding? I dont' remember hearing of
> sea elves at diesmsaar - so even if they did have holdings, they wouldn't
> be able to cast spells.
>
This is because there are no sea elves in Birthright. Of course, with a
stroke of the pen the DM can add them in there, and place them in history at
Deismaar, too...

- -DKE

[The Olesen`s]

Daskinor@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 98-06-10 17:13:56 EDT, olesens writes:
>
> >
>
> But it says somewhere, I think in the Monstrous Manual, that Sea Elves can't
> cast wizardly magic.
>
> Although the reason for this is believed to have something to do with drow.
> SO... it could be said that since there are no drow (or are there???
> *sinister music* )

Regular elves in Cerillia are varied enough that Drow are not needed.
Also, arn't thier enoguh enderground humanoids/demi-humans?


, then they can cast.
>
> I don't know, just a thought. What do you think?
>
> Nathan

It says that on some worlds sea elves cannot cast spells because the
Drow stole the power from them. No Drow=spells.


Another little note:

Why do sea elves have to live near Cerillia? Why not live across (and
in) the sea of Dragons (where not much exploration has been done).

[bloebick@juno.com (Benja]

On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:28:21 EDT Daskinor@aol.com writes:
>In a message dated 98-06-10 17:13:56 EDT, olesens writes:
>
>>
>
>
>But it says somewhere, I think in the Monstrous Manual, that Sea Elves
>can't
>cast wizardly magic.
>
>Although the reason for this is believed to have something to do with
>drow.
>SO... it could be said that since there are no drow (or are there???
>*sinister music* ), then they can cast.
>
>I don't know, just a thought. What do you think?
>
>Nathan

I don't think there are drow, even if the Warlock accessory says so. I
look at them more as dark elves who live underground, not the drow we all
discovered in FR.

Benjamin

__________________________________________________ ___________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

[Tim Nutting]

Elves, Elves, Elves.

I love the little stuck up pointy eared cusses.

Actually, of all the worlds TSR has ever published, the elves in BR are the
best. They are unique, distinct entities, and while they may be clones of
Irish/Scottish/British myth, at least they aren't little Tolkien clones
(ala Complete Book of Elves - no offense, but that book is like reading a
dissertation on the elves of Middle Earth).

Birthright has done almost everything possible (like Dark Sun did) to
divorce itself from the rest of the D&D milieu, and it works great! To
throw in more races of elves cheapens the uniqueness of the ones we already
have. (Still - there's been some pretty good storytelling to make them fit
)

If people are looking for things to populate sea sources, may I bring up
one of Rich Baker's ideas (a shame he doesn't post to the list anymore).
He hinted and //suggested// a fate for the remnants of the disappeared
Masetian peoples. By 500 HC the Masetians had disappeared. Queries about
their fate led to the idea that they may have chosen to embrace the seas
themselves and were now a race which dwelled under the waves.

Just a thought (and not mine - shucks)

Tim Nutting

[Alain Pouliot]

Greeting!

This is a good idea. I will think about it for my game.

Snag

- ----------
> From: Tim Nutting
> To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Sea Elves
> Date: 11 juin, 1998 14:19
>
> Elves, Elves, Elves.
>
> I love the little stuck up pointy eared cusses.
>
> Actually, of all the worlds TSR has ever published, the elves in BR are
the
> best. They are unique, distinct entities, and while they may be clones
of
> Irish/Scottish/British myth, at least they aren't little Tolkien clones
> (ala Complete Book of Elves - no offense, but that book is like reading a
> dissertation on the elves of Middle Earth).
>
> Birthright has done almost everything possible (like Dark Sun did) to
> divorce itself from the rest of the D&D milieu, and it works great! To
> throw in more races of elves cheapens the uniqueness of the ones we
already
> have. (Still - there's been some pretty good storytelling to make them
fit
> )
>
> If people are looking for things to populate sea sources, may I bring up
> one of Rich Baker's ideas (a shame he doesn't post to the list anymore).
> He hinted and //suggested// a fate for the remnants of the disappeared
> Masetian peoples. By 500 HC the Masetians had disappeared. Queries
about
> their fate led to the idea that they may have chosen to embrace the seas
> themselves and were now a race which dwelled under the waves.
>
> Just a thought (and not mine - shucks)
>
> Tim Nutting
>> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
line
> 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

[KirbyRanma@aol.co]

In a message dated 98-06-11 14:28:11 EDT, zero@wiredweb.com writes:

>

Here here! I agree with this statement tons and tons! (That's a lot you
know.) On a side, I'd like to say I think Ravenloft is unique like the above
two mentioned, but by it's definition it can't really "divorce" itself from
the rest of the AD&D lines. (Looking around I think I see people picking up
fruit to throw at me, so I'll get back on topic :-)



Ditto. I like the fact that if you encounter an elf, the chances are
about as likely the elf will want to hack you to pieces as that the elf may be
friendly. Who needs drow? Who needs sea elves? Let us march across the
Imperial City and chant "No more elves! No more elves! Keep the Cerilian
one's to themselves!" Yea! Woohoo! Hip hip... who wants me to stop? :-(

Take care all,
Kirby
"I can understand why you threw the tomatoes, but what I can't understand is
why you brought them in the first place." - Some funny guy whose name escapes
me.

[craig@finance.econ.usyd.]

At 05:54 AM 11/6/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:28:21 EDT Daskinor@aol.com writes:
>>In a message dated 98-06-10 17:13:56 EDT, olesens writes:
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>But it says somewhere, I think in the Monstrous Manual, that Sea Elves
>>can't
>>cast wizardly magic.
>>
>>Although the reason for this is believed to have something to do with
>>drow.
>>SO... it could be said that since there are no drow (or are there???
>>*sinister music* ), then they can cast.
>>
>>I don't know, just a thought. What do you think?
>>
>>Nathan
>
>I don't think there are drow, even if the Warlock accessory says so. I
>look at them more as dark elves who live underground, not the drow we all
>discovered in FR.
>
>Benjamin
>
I agree, the dark elves presented in the monstrous compendium (and thrashed
out in FR) are fundamentally linked to Lolth (Lloth). This is not possible
in the BR campaign as the elves of any origin have no gods. Therefore I
consider what I call "Shadow Elves" (sorry to TSR for any copyright
violation with respect to the same named race in the Mystara setting) as a
offshoot of the elves who were first corrupted by Azrai and taught evil
magic. They followed him bellow the ground into eternal darkness and learnt
the abilities that are common to drow. These then become the alven
equivalent of the Fallen only on an entire race level (given it would have
been much easier to train them in magic due to the elves natural aptitude
towards magic in the first place.

Craig




>__________________________________________________ ___________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>************************************************** *************************
>>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>
>

[The Olesen`s]

craig@finance.econ.usyd.edu.au wrote:
>
> At 05:54 AM 11/6/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:28:21 EDT Daskinor@aol.com writes:
> >>In a message dated 98-06-10 17:13:56 EDT, olesens writes:
> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>But it says somewhere, I think in the Monstrous Manual, that Sea Elves
> >>can't
> >>cast wizardly magic.
> >>
> >>Although the reason for this is believed to have something to do with
> >>drow.
> >>SO... it could be said that since there are no drow (or are there???
> >>*sinister music* ), then they can cast.
> >>
> >>I don't know, just a thought. What do you think?
> >>
> >>Nathan
> >
> >I don't think there are drow, even if the Warlock accessory says so. I
> >look at them more as dark elves who live underground, not the drow we all
> >discovered in FR.
> >
> >Benjamin
> >
> I agree, the dark elves presented in the monstrous compendium (and thrashed
> out in FR) are fundamentally linked to Lolth (Lloth). This is not possible
> in the BR campaign as the elves of any origin have no gods. Therefore I
> consider what I call "Shadow Elves" (sorry to TSR for any copyright
> violation with respect to the same named race in the Mystara setting) as a
> offshoot of the elves who were first corrupted by Azrai and taught evil
> magic. They followed him bellow the ground into eternal darkness and learnt
> the abilities that are common to drow. These then become the alven
> equivalent of the Fallen only on an entire race level (given it would have
> been much easier to train them in magic due to the elves natural aptitude
> towards magic in the first place.
>
> Craig

Yeah, they could have been the elves like Rhoubhe who stayed with Azari
and REALLY took in his teachings.

[Alvaro Pulido]

- ---KirbyRanma@aol.com wrote:
>
> have.>>
>
> Ditto. I like the fact that if you encounter an elf, the
chances are
> about as likely the elf will want to hack you to pieces as that the
elf may be
> friendly. Who needs drow? Who needs sea elves? Let us march
across the
> Imperial City and chant "No more elves! No more elves! Keep the
Cerilian
> one's to themselves!" Yea! Woohoo! Hip hip... who wants me to
stop? :-(
>
I don't... actually, I like the idea that you're supporting.
I mean, when you see an elf in almost any AD&D you know which kind of
behavior does he has; but if you met an elf in Birthright, you don't
know what will he do next...


I hope my thought is clear... =P


==

-

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Alvaro Pulido wrote:
> I don't... actually, I like the idea that you're supporting.
> I mean, when you see an elf in almost any AD&D you know which kind of
> behavior does he has; but if you met an elf in Birthright, you don't
> know what will he do next...
>
>
> I hope my thought is clear... =P

Actually, if I were to use sea elves, I would make them as unique and
distinctive as their terrestrial cousins in Cerilia. The idea that I was
toying with, but never developed, what that the sea elves live in (or
rather around) the lands of Djapar, and are a large part of the reason
that there is not a lot of trade between Cerilia and Djapar.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[pwrobel@colba.ne]

>
>Actually, if I were to use sea elves, I would make them as unique and
>distinctive as their terrestrial cousins in Cerilia. The idea that I was
>toying with, but never developed, what that the sea elves live in (or
>rather around) the lands of Djapar, and are a large part of the reason
>that there is not a lot of trade between Cerilia and Djapar.
>
>Mark VanderMeulen
>vander+@pitt.edu
>
>************************************************** *************************
>What could be interresting would be that the sea's surrounding Cerilia
would have underwater nations with blooded regents like Sea Elves , Sahuagin
, Merman and mermaids , tritons and maybe the abominations of the sea like
Leviathan , The Kraken or the Sea Drake .

Phil
>

The Laughing Wolf!!!