Epic levels and Requirements

[Athos69]

With Blood powers like Long Life, long demi-human racial lives like the Karamhul and immortal races like the Sidhe, it is not beyond the realm of possibility to have Scions whose levels reach into what would be calssified as 'Epic' Levels.

In fact, Caledhie Dosiere, the Imperial Chamberlain of Anuire is listed in the 2nd Edition source material as bveing a Fighter 12 / Wizard (Diviner) 16. That's 28 levels of classes. With the 2 Scion class levels that the sanctioned Chapter 2 added for his Great bloodline, that's Level 30.

It has often been said that a character needs something 'special' to be able to break through the 20th level barrier. Could we use Bloodline strength as a determinant?

Should we allow characters with a Great bloodline to achieve levels higher than 20? Shall we allow it to bloodlines of Major status? Should we open it up to anyone with a Bloodline?

Food for thought. Whatever we decide should wind up in the BRCS, most likely in Chapter 8 as a Variant rule or guideline for DMs.

Further to this, has the Atlas team decided what they will be doing with the Chamberlain's writeup? I'd like to tackle it.

[Raesene Andu]

No description of the Chamberlain has been done for the Atlas yet, although I tentatively listed him as a Fighter 7/Wizard 13...

[irdeggman]

I'll make a note to add a section on addressing Epic Levels to Chap 8.

Now another thing that could be used is the Great Heritage template. If granted then this would, IMO, definitely meet the requisites for epic level.

IMO I'd use things like Domain Power, true bloodlines of course would automatically count, great heritage, great bloodlines would probably work, raising a scion's bloodline strength should also work since it is a reflection of great work and trust of followers (i.e., need the RP to get there in the first place and a quest of some kind).

[Beruin]

>>Raesene Andu wrote:

No description of the Chamberlain has been done for the Atlas yet, although I tentatively listed him as a Fighter 7/Wizard 13...<<



I would prefer to keep the Chamberlain as an epic character. As the guardian of the Iron Throne, he has to fend off would-be emperors like Avan or Boeruine. As his political powerbase is rather paltry he has to make up for the lacking power of his domain with his personal power. Moreover, he is the last symbol of the Anuirean Empire, making him a prime target for the Gorgon, for instance.



The Chamberlain therefore needs every edge that he can get.

[geeman]

At 10:13 AM 7/2/2004 +0200, Athos69 wrote:



>It has often been said that a character needs something `special` to be

>able to break through the 20th level barrier. Could we use Bloodline

>strength as a determinant?Should we allow characters with a Great

>bloodline to achieve levels higher than 20? Shall we allow it to

>bloodlines of Major status? Should we open it up to anyone with a

>Bloodline?Food for thought. Whatever we decide should wind up in the

>BRCS, most likely in Chapter 8 as a Variant rule or guideline for DMs.



Personally, I don`t think there should be any connection between bloodline

and access to the epic level of play. Character levels over 20 should be

handled as per the ELH without bloodline being factored in at all other

than in the ways it is accounted for the balance the character (LA, class

levels, etc.)



Gary

[Athos69]

Regarding 21st level and up, I feel that having a Bloodline should be sufficient to allow these levels, but the common masses, without the divine 'spark', should not have the extra edge that allows them to achieve the Epic plateau.

Regarding the Chamberlain, I feel that we should keep him with the levels listed in the original box set, along with 2 levels of Scion to reflect his blood power. Yes, this will create a 30th level Epic character. Yes, this will be an anomaly in the average levels of the non-awnsheghlien denizens of Cerillia.

Let's face it, as DMs, we will want some balance between the bad, high level abominations, such as Rasene (no offence Ian ;) ), and the relatively low-level run of the mill Regents of Anuire.

-Mike

[Osprey]

I think it should remain a DM's decision as to whether or not to allow epic level characters at all, and if so, what the requirements are. If a DM wants a campaign where only scions can reach epic levels, that's fine. But I also think non-blooded epic PC's and NPC's could fit into a very "true-to-form" BR campaign. I honestly don't think it the work of the BRCS to make an official statement one way or the other.

Osprey

[Raesene Andu]

Personally I don't see the need to make the Chamberlain an Epic level character. His prowess as a warrior/mage does not necessarily translate into increased political power. It is the trappings of his office, those who work under him, and the remenants of the old imperial power that give him his influence over other regents.

As for the idea that he needs to be higher level to fight off the ogrgon and other evil baddies, that dosn't feel right to me. The gorgon does not go around attacking other regents, he creates a situation where the traget regent either comes to him or he invades with the full force of his armies. The gorgon doesn't teleport across the continent sneaking into regent's fortresses and palaces to slay them when they are sleeping.

All that said, if anyone wants to do a writeup for the Champerlain (either as an epic character or as 19th level as I set out) go for it...

Other major NPCs that still require descriptions for the Atlas (at least the Anuirean section) include Aeric Boeruine, Darien Avan, Gavin Tael, Rhuobhe, The Sword Mage, The High Mage Aelies, the Hand of Azrai, Mheallie Bireon, as so on.

[Don E]

I think any requirements for the 'ascendancy' into the epic levels should be left entirely to the DM. If there are characters in her campaign that have choosen to be unblooded I see no reason why these should not be able to continue to progress like the rest of the characters do. There must surely have been epic characters long before bloodlines arrived.

[tcharazazel]

I agree definately up the the DM. Heheh, yeah I bet elves and dwarves have been epic before the bloodlines came around, and there may have been some humans before it also, though not as likely.

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by Athos69@Jul 2 2004, 09:13 AM
Should we allow characters with a Great bloodline to achieve levels higher than 20?* Shall we allow it to bloodlines of Major status?* Should we open it up to anyone with a Bloodline?

I'm of the opinion, that there's no problem not to open it for anyone (even non-blooded). Since you need XP to gain levels and you normally gain XP thought adventuring (or good rulership), it is normal that only "exceptional" characters will ever gain epic levels. Those exeptional characters are normally blooded, but I don't see a reason to restrict them by bloodline. If a "normal" unblooded Expert 20 slays a dragon (or whatever) and his XP would push im to Epic levels, tell me why he could not get 21st level? Well, normally an Expert would never get the idea to go adventuring, but so what? If he does, he IS exceptional...

[geeman]

tcharazazel writes:



> I agree definately up the the DM.



Since things are always ultimately up to the DM, I suppose the question here

is whether or not this situation is one of those things that really needs

some additional prose in the BRCS. In the same way that, say, the

Leadership feat has text that describes how the DM might not want to allow

it since it changes the nature of the campaign, does the epic level require

something similar for the BRCS?



Personally, I`m inclined to leave it alone unless there is some sort of

campaign-specific thing that makes sense to include. Basing access to the

epic level doesn`t strike me as being particularly thematic, for instance,

so I don`t think that`s enough to warrent inclusion in the update.



Gary

[tcharazazel]

Personally, I`m inclined to leave it alone unless there is some sort of
campaign-specific thing that makes sense to include. Basing access to the
epic level doesn`t strike me as being particularly thematic, for instance,
so I don`t think that`s enough to warrent inclusion in the update.

Aye, heheh, that's all i meant. It doesnt need to be in the rewrite of the BRCS.