Unnoficial magicians guide

[graham anderson]

I have been working on an unofficial magicians guide that I want to post and get input and help with. This is the first draft and is missing a lot of stuff. I however want to get feed back as I am doing it so here goes.

At the moment it has some background info , a different magician class, two prestige classes ( the bloodline hound and crystal gazer from before but altered with more to come) , A couple of feats.

I would like feed back on what is done so far plus suggestions for new stuff(spells, feats, prestige classes, organisations, additional background info).

If I knew how to post a word document without setting up a website which I cannot be bothered to do at the moment I would but I will post the stuff in sections instead.

[graham anderson]

The Magician Guide book

Lesser magic:

Magicians are given many names seers, Illusionists, hedge wizards, Diviners and more. They are united by the use of lesser magic. Magical energy encompasses cerilia so thoroughly that even unblooded individuals can access a little of it if they posses sufficient intelligence and devote some time to the study of the arcane arts.

Lesser magic comprises the schools of illusion and divination; its students are considered specialists in both these schools. Masters of lesser magic can also cast 1st and 2nd level spells from all other schools of magic.

Anyone blooded or unblooded can become a magician.

The faces of magic:

Each race in cerilia has its own attitudes toward and philosophies of magic. Cultures vary widely in their acceptance of spellcasters, their beliefs and assumptions about magic and those who practice it. Values, tradition and experience all contribute to a cultures magical ideology.

This chapter explains each races cultural attitude toward lesser magic, from how the common people view lesser magic to how their Magicians view their craft.

Elves:

The elves have wizards and sorcerers not magicians and often dismiss them, as they are unable to access greater magic.

Half elves:

Half elves can become magicians if they have been raised by humans and tend to have the same beliefs and opinions as the human culture that they come from. If the half elf is raised by the elves he shares their disdain of lesser magic and will not practice it.

Favoured schools: The same as the human culture
Unlikely schools: The same as the human culture
Shunned schools: The same as the human culture

Human Magicians:

As one of the rare individuals in cerilia who can command mabhaighl a spellcaster of any race inspires fear and awe in those who do not understand the magical arts. But among humans in particular acceptance of magic and those who practice it varies widely from culture to culture. Unlike elves who view magic as a natural part of daily life, most humans believe magic to be an essentially unnatural activity.

Some of the human races especially the vos, basarji and masetians were familiar with magic long before arriving in cerilia. Upon immigrating to the new continent, their spellcasters discovered a land rich in magical energy. Over the centuries they learned to channel cerilias mabhaighl to work more elaborate enchantments than they were previously able to cast.

Other human races were first exposed to magic when they encountered the sidhelien. Some humans who carried the potential to wield magic felt a spark ignite within them upon observing sidhelien wizards; they watched and imitated the elves until they taught themselves rudimentary spellcasting. A few rare extraordinarily handsome individuals found acceptance among the elves and studied under sidhelien sorcerers before increasing human encroachment in elven forests irreparably sundered relations between the races.

Each human race in cerilia now has spellcasters of its own. Because most commoners regard spellcasters with suspicion, human spellcasters tend to keep either their abilities or themselves out of the public eye. They study magic and prepare plans with only a few trusted individuals aware of their actions. Even court magicians seldom appear at court.

Human spell casters dress according to their personalities tastes and cultures. Many rarely wear anything that gives away their profession away choosing instead to look like scholars or merchants. Occasionally a powerful magician will dress the part his reputation has earned him. Those who wildly embrace a lifestyle filled with magic particularly magicians who earn their living entertaining crowds, often dress in a manner designed to draw attention to themselves dazzling robes, elaborate cloaks and jewellery worthy of their station.

Anuiriens:

Most anuirean magicians come from the ranks of the nobility – younger sons of younger sons. These nobles often carry bloodlines but week claims to title or fortune. Free of the responsibility of earning a living members of the noble and gentry classes have the time and money necessary to devote arduous hours to the study of magic.

More than mages of any other human race, anuirean magicians tend to cultivate an interest in politics. As aristocrats many have relatives in contention for the iron throne or control of smaller duchies and earldoms. It is mot unusual for a powerful magician to use his abilities and influence to support his kin.

Other spellcasters take greater interest in politics on the local level where free farmers and craftsmen have strong voices in the operations of communities and the handling of village issues and concerns. These magicians are sympathetic to the common folk and use their spells to aid them when asked.

Favoured schools: divination, invocation/evocation
Unlikely schools: necromancy
Shunned schools: enchantment/charm

Anuirean magicians tend to also have levels of another class frequently noble or rogue. Many anuireans magicians receive their magical training in the royal college of sorcery in the imperial city of anuire. Others particularly those from titled families often study under private tutors, magicians hired on retainer. Aspiring spellcasters from less well to do families apprentice themselves to local magicians of note.

Anuirean society values family and its wizards generally share this view. It is not uncommon for an anuirean spellcaster to marry. Many magicians school at least one of their children in the arts of magic.

Brechts:

Brecht magicians reflect the nature of brechturs mercantile society. Most prosperous Brecht realms thrive on trade with other realms all over cerilia. As a result brecht magicians often learn spells and magical practices from a variety of sources, but the role of magic and its wielders is nearly always the same: magic is a resource to be developed and exploited, usually as a compliment to other resources.

Brecht society focuses on free enterprise. Its strong guilds and merchant houses diversify political power in brechtur, which in turn makes the average citizen more aware of his political situation than most commoners of other cerilian regions. Magic to is also a more common part of brechturs economy than it is in other lands. While there is fewer spellcasters here than there is in khinasi nowhere is it easier for a common spellcaster to earn a living plying his trade. Mage guilds exist; illusions and magical talismans are available for purchase; many shipping fleets keep magicians on retainer.

Magic is more rare than it seams as false practitioners and tricksters thrive in brechtur. Failed spellcasters also peddle their non-guild merchandise to the unwary and the ignorant.

In wartime magicians supplement the armies and navies of Brecht lords but that is not their primary purpose. Instead the Brecht spellcaster acts as an advisor or a partner, casting spells and using his knowledge to complement his more mundane allies.

Brecht magicians live in the world of practice not theory. Magic guilds are businesses and magicians rare commodities. Spells that facilitate trade and commerce are valued and schools of magic that achieve these goals are promoted among students.

Favoured schools: divination, enchantment/charm
Unlikely schools: alteration
Shunned schools: none

Brecht wizard’s dress practically wearing whatever the weather dictates. Most spellcasters that leave brechtur become courtiers. Even if they have the skills to live of the land they value security. This is not to say that Brecht magicians never indulge in adventuring. The Brechts as a people are innately curious their magicians are quick to examine anything-magical left behind by people of decades past. They also have a passion for magical items of elven make and have been known to venture forth in search of such items.

Khinasi:

The khinasi as a people have no fear of magic. In fact commoners and nobles consider the study of magic the highest calling an individual can have, they even encourage people to take up the study of magic especially if they have a bloodline. Promising magicians that lack the coins for spell books and supplies often receive as donations the necessary funds from businessmen and tradesmen.

Khinasi magicians do not have to swear to the five oaths or travel to the temple of rilni. Magicians are sought out as advisors to regents and others persons of influence. The people believe that anyone able to master magic has intelligence, wisdom and wit that cannot be matched by that of common citizens. And that this intellect should be used to help guide the rest of the khinasi people.

Favoured schools: divination, illusion, conjuration/summoning
Unlikely schools: none
Shunned schools: necromancy

The khinasi try and wear clothes made by local merchants. They also try and wear khinasi style clothes at all times even when in one of the other regions of cerilia.

Rjurik:

Rjurik people fear magic and by extension those who command it. Often spellcasters are easy to pick out from their countrymen leaving them vulnerable to criticism or ostracism. While most rjurik people are broad shouldered and tall magicians have a lesser build because they are not as physically active as their countrymen. This has lead many Rjurik magicians to train their body as well as their mind in order to better fit in. Rjurik magicians are often able to survive on their own in the wilderness for extended period of time.

Rjurik magicians can have a hard life among such sceptical people. Some magicians envy the druids the respect they receive and tend to respect nature often focusing on spells that have similar effects to those the druids use. Rjurik spellcasters are noted for researching spells related to the weather.

Favoured schools: divination, alteration, abjuration
Unlikely schools: necromancy
Shunned schools: invocation/evocation

The rjurik people place great importance on family and magicians share this value. They believe their work contributes to their communities even if the rest of society does not realise its worth.

Vos:

Those who study the arcane arts are far from favoured by the vos. The people avoid magicians and sometimes even exile them from the tribe in extreme cases. Some vos fear spellcasters outright and hang charms in their doorways to keep the spellcasters away. Many elders believe arcane magic angers the grim vos gods and risks bringing famine and plagues upon the people as punishment. Spellcasters they believe do not receive the blessings of the gods and must be watched carefully. Vos leaders war chieftains called tsarevos openly shun spellcasters. Some chieftains have gone so far as to ban spellcasters from their sight. Few will order a spellcasters death, as they fear retribution. They have not forgotten that centuries ago their ancestors worshipped the god of moon and magic. Though they turned away from Vorynn, they have no desire to anger his successor lirovka (the vos name for ruornil).

Despite the outwardly anti magic climate of vosgaard a few war chieftains have secretly allied themselves with magicians. These chieftains realize the power of spellcasters and want that power on their side in times of war. The cooperative spellcasters have guaranteed their quite aid in struggles against rival tribes in exchange for gold, provisions and freedom from persecution.

Favoured schools: illusion, invocation/evocation, abjuration
Unlikely schools: none
Shunned schools: enchantment/charm

Goblins:

Goblin magicians fall into one of two groups those that claim decent from an ancient goblin spellcasting tradition and those that learned their magic from humans. Goblin magicians are very rare and can be found it two places among the goblin cities where there is space for them to practice or as the spiritual advisor to a tribe. In tribes the goblin spellcasters often compete with the priests for control of the spiritual side of life but usually lose the fight. The goblin spellcasters often use spells that inspire fear and wonder in the common goblins duplicating as much as possible the spells and rituals of the goblin priests. Common goblins fear and respect goblin spellcasters seeing little difference between them and the priests of their gods. Goblins will use any magic that they are capable of learning.

[graham anderson]

{ there is only a few differences from the brcs magician dual specialisation and feats, a few other small alterations}

Magicians and seers:

Most people think of magicians as entertainers who do little more than pull rabbits out of hats. Certainly PC magicians can do that sort of trick but they are capable of much more. Magicians can be characters of incredible depth and complexity, individuals rich in personality, motivations and goals (if not usually gold). As PC’s they bring unique skills and role-playing opportunities to campaigns; when encountered as NPC’s they should never be underestimated or carelessly dismissed.

The magician character class

Magicians belong to a character class unique to the birthright world. These spellcasters specialize in the magic of knowing and seeming the schools of divination and illusion. Considered touched by ordinary folk and mere dabblers by true wizards, those who command lesser magic have carved their own niche in cerilias varied cultures.

The magician character class comprises magicians (those whose intent leans towards illusion) and seers (those whose skills lie in divination). A member of this character class is considered a specialist in both these schools, though a characters education and experience may concentrate on one or the other.

Adventures: Magicians, like Wizards, seek knowledge and the resources they otherwise require for enhancing their art. They are highly valued for their ability to provide sounds advice, healing, and magical insight. Court magicians are almost always included in any adventures in which their patron is involved.

Characteristics: Although the study of lesser magic is less demanding than the pursuit of true magic, magicians cannot afford to depend on their art alone to provide them with safety and a livelihood. Magicians develop a wide variety of skills that make them invaluable companions, advisors, and teachers. Magicians are quite flexible and each one develops those skills and abilities that they find most useful in meeting their duties and obligations.

Alignment: Magicians may be of any alignment. The powers of illusion and enchantment can be used for personal gain and easily as they can be used for good. Most seem to lean toward lawful alignments, however, as their art requires patience, subtlety and discipline.

Religion: Magicians tend to revere Ruornil and Avani.

Background: Magicians usually come from the wealthier parts of society, or else their talent was recognized early on by some older magician or even wizard. Regardless, magicians have usually gone through years and years of tedious study and education in order to learn their craft.

Races: Members of any race can learn the arts of the magician.
Level Attack Bonus Fort.Save Ref.Save WillSave Special
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Dual specialisation
2 +1 +0 +0 +3
3 +1 +1 +1 +3
4 +2 +1 +1 +4
5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Bonus feat
6 +3 +2 +2 +5
7 +3 +2 +2 +5
8 +4 +2 +2 +6
9 +4 +3 +3 +6
10 +5 +3 +3 +7 Bonus feat
11 +5 +3 +3 +7
12 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8
13 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8
14 +7/+2 +4 +4 +9
15 +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Bonus feat
16 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10
17 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10
18 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11
19 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11
20 +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Bonus feat

spells

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
4 2 - - - - - - - -
5 3 - - - - - - - -
5 3 2 - - - - - - -
5 4 3 - - - - - - -
5 4 3 2 - - - - - -
5 4 4 3 - - - - - -
5 5 4 3 2 - - - - -
5 5 4 4 3 - - - - -
5 5 5 4 3 2 - - - -
5 5 5 4 4 3 - - - -
5 5 5 5 4 4 2 - - -
5 5 5 5 4 4 3 - - -
5 5 5 5 5 4 3 2 - -
5 5 5 5 5 5 4 3 - -
5 5 5 5 5 5 4 3 2 -
5 5 5 5 5 5 4 4 3 -
5 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 3 2
5 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 4 3
5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 4
5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5

Preferred Race/Culture: Most magicians are human or goblinoid The Brecht know the value of magic and treat it as a commodity; although they have no colleges to teach emerging magicians. Magicians are also highly regarded among the Khinasi, where the pursuit of magic is considered one of the highest callings. Magicians are more common in Khinasi lands than in any other realm, it is rare to find a realm without a court seer. Human magicians from Anuire are generally respected and valued by their people. Rjurik and Vos magicians exist, but their people view them with suspicion and mistrust.

Other Classes: Magicians usually crave the support of other classes when going on adventures. They are excellent at gathering information, supporting other party members and confounding opponents.

Game Rule Information

Magicians have the following game statistics:

Abilities: Intelligence determines how powerful a spell a magician can cast, how many spells he can cast, and how hard those spells are to resist in the same way that Intelligence determines such factors for a Wizard.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d6.
Class Skills
The magician’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int bonus) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int bonus.

Class Features

The following are class features of the magician.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Magicians cannot depend on magic alone to earn a living or to defend them from danger. Magicians take time to learn the basics of combat and to wear armor if they must. Magicians are skilled with all simple weapons. Magicians are proficient with light armor but not with any type of shield. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a magician suffers a chance of arcane spell failure if attempting to cast spells with somatic components while wearing armor.

Spells: A magician casts arcane spells and unless otherwise noted is bound by the same rules and restrictions on learning, memorizing, and casting spells that apply to wizards. A magician is limited to a certain number of spells of each spell level per day, according to her class level. She may prepare and cast spells as a wizard does, provided that she knows the spell and that she can cast spells of that level. She must prepare her spells by getting a good night’s sleep and spending one hour studying her spellbook each day. A magician's starting spells, ability to add two new spells to her spell book each time she advances in level, and ability to copy or research additional spells for her spell book is exactly the same as for a wizard.
The principal difference between a wizard and a magician is their spell list. Magicians and bards use a form of power that is more gentle and subtle than the power used by wizards and sorcerers. Although there are many spells which wizards and magicians have in common, most wizards spells require power for more extravagant than that available to magicians. Magicians have access to all 0, 1st and 2nd level spells but can only cast spells of illusion, divination and universal at 3rd level and above.

[graham anderson]

Prestige Classes:

The bloodline hound and crystal gazer are down with others to follow I have a note on those following and the focus for the prestige class.


Bloodline hound

The bloodline hound specializes in spells that identify and affect blooded individuals. Most often bloodline hounds are magical mercenaries hiring themselves out to whoever offers the most gold. Regents employ bloodline hounds for many reasons including rooting out pretenders to the throne and finding heretofore unknown heirs. Rulers might also hire a bloodline hound to disguise their own or others bloodlines.

This type of specialist is not known to the general public and indeed is rarely spoken of even amoung those in the know. The power inherent in the knowledge of someone else’s bloodline and the ability to affect that bloodline is great indeed. A bloodline hound is one of the few individuals who can strike fear into the heart of a regent.

Hit dice: d6
Requirements: lesser arcane spell caster

Alignment :any
Skills: knowledge (bloodlore) 8
Feats: any metamagic feat


Class Skills: Concentration, knowledge (any), profession (any), spell craft, scry, alchemy, Gather information, disguise

Skill points at each level: 4 + int modifier





Base att / fort / ref / will / special
+0 +0 +1 +1 spell focus (blood), track scion, +1 lev of existing class
+1 +1 +1 +1 sense the blooded, +1 lev of existing class
+1 +1 +2 +2 suppress bloodline 1/day, +1 lev of existing class
+2 +1 +2 +3 mimic blood ability (minor)1/week, +1 lev of existing class
+2 +1 +2 +3 Immunity to blood abilities, +1 lev of existing class
+3 +2 +3 +4 suppress bloodline 2/day, +1 lev of existing class
+3 +2 +3 +4 mimic blood ability (major)1/week, +1 lev of existing class
+4 +2 +4 +4 , +1 lev of existing class
+4 +2 +5 +5 suppress blood ability 3/day , +1 lev of existing class
+5 +3 +5 +5 mimic blood ability (great)1/week, +1 lev of existing class

Class features:

Weapon and armour proficiency: no additional.

Track scion: +1 bonus on checks to track a scion per level of bloodline hound

Spell focus (bloodline based spells)

Mimic blood ability (minor 4th lev, major 7th, great 10th): At minor you can mimic a minor blood ability once per day. The same for major and great. Some abilities don't apply you can't mimic invulnerability for instance. As per the spell.

Suppress bloodline: as per the spell

Immunity to blood abilities: immunity to character reading, charm aura, detect lie, detect illusion, detect life, divine aura, fear, persuasion, wither touch.

Blood spells:

Know bloodline derivation
Know bloodline strength
Know cerilian origin
Mask bloodline
Disguise bloodline
Mimic Blood ability
Enhance blood ability
Suppress blood ability
Suppress Bloodline

Sense scion:

Range: 60feet
Duration: at will
Saving throw: none

You can sense the blooded as with detect evil the amount of information revealed depends on how long you study an area.

1st round: Presence or absence of the blooded
2nd round: The number of blooded individuals
3rd round: The strength and location of each individual. This is only general information great, major or minor bloodline.

[graham anderson]

Crystal gazer

Crystal gazers are specialist magicians who use gemstones to enhance their spell casting. These individuals can draw mabhaigl (their by boosting their powers) by attuning the gemstones through ritualised preparation of the stone and precise cutting of the facets. Only a crystal gazer can cut a stone for use by a crystal gazer.

Hit dice: d6
Requirements: lesser arcane magic spellcasting

Alignment: any
Base save bonus: fortitude +4
Skills: craft (gem cutting) +4
Feats: craft wondrous item

Special: You must craft a wondrous item attuned gem, which allows you to begin the path.
Class Skills: Concentration, craft (any), knowledge (any), profession (any), spell craft, scry, alchemy

Skill points at each level: 4 + int modifier

Class / Base att / fort / ref / will / special / spells per day
1 +0 +1 +0 +1 Gem attunement / +1 level of class
Gem component
2 +1 +1 +0 +2 Spell boost +1 level of class
3 +1 +2 +1 +2 1st greater gem focus +1 level of class
4 +2 +3 +1 +2 +1 level of class
5 +2 +3 +1 +2 2nd greater gem focus +1 level of class
6 +3 +4 +2 +3 +1 level of class
7 +3 +4 +2 +3 3rd greater gem focus +1 lev
8 +4 +4 +2 +4 +1 lev
9 +4 +5 +2 +5 4th greater gem focus +1 lev
10 +5 +5 +2 +6 Master fo mabhaigl +1 lev

Class Features:

At each level a new gem must be crafted at increasing cost. Cost of level x1000 gp

All spells are cast threw the gems if the gems are lost you can make them again but until you do so you are a common magician.

Weapon and armour proficiency: no additional.

Gem Attunement: The crystal gazer can store spells in gems and crystals. Each gem or crystal can hold one spell. This enables you to use scribe scroll to write spells to gems.

Gem Component: A crystal gazer can replace components with a prepared gem or crystal of equal value to the component it takes 10 minutes to prepare them and they shatter as the spell is cast.

Spell Boost: Once per day for every two class levels he possesses a crystal gazer can enlarge or extend an illusion spell he casts as though he had applied the appropriate metamagic feat to the spell (although the spell does not use a higher level slot).

Greater Gem focus:

These are examples other focuses can be agreed with the dm.

1: Realm Focus
Requires a mabhaigl stone to construct
Allows the crystal gazer to cast a 1st level realm spell once a year.

2: Wizard focus
Requires a sielshegh gem to construct
Allows the wizard access to 3rd level wizard spells.

3: Gem of spell focus
Take spell penetration or spell focus as a bonus feat.

4: Greater gem of spell focus
Take greater spell focus as a bonus feat

5: Gem of grounding
-2 to the difficulty of the fort saves for the prestige class

6: others

Master of mabhaigl:
The magician gains enough knowledge of the land that they can now learn and cast battle spells. When a battle spell is cast they suffer 4 temporary points of constitution damage.

Hedge wizard/ witch

Potions
Magic items (charms)
Familiars

Court magician

Masters of alteration and politics

Illuminator

Masters of illusions

Oracle

Masters of divination

Lesser Necromancer

They specialize in the shadow world especially the undead.
Undead familiar
Undead cohort

[graham anderson]

Feats:

More to come in the future but some to begin with.

Familiar

Improved familiar (including alternates bloodline hound, hydra kin, blooded stead etc)

Lesser spell song [metamagic]
You have learned the basics of elven spell song
Perquisites: charisma 13+, perform (song) +4, still spell, spell focus (enchantment),
Benefits: Add +1 to the difficulty class for all saving throws against enchantment spells you cast.

Spell song [metamagic]
You have learned as much as you can of elven spell song without being an elf or dedicating your life to it like a bard.
Prequisites: Charisma 16+, perform (song) +8, lesser spell song, greater spell focus (enchantment)
Benefits: You can now cast enchantment spells up to 4th level so long as you use verbal components.

Organisations:

This will include crystal gazers, bloodline hounds, the Brecht guilds and a couple of others.

I have a bit written on this already but I will have to transfer it from paper.

Personalities:

There will be a variety of personalities. I have already written quite a few but they also need to be transferred.

Special/ Magic items:

Don’t have much to go here a couple of items that have to be transferred across

Spells:

Not a lot to go here yet

Magicians as regents or advisors:

I have to transfer some stuff across here to.

[graham anderson]

I thought of a couple of other prestige classes

the silver knights (magician/fighters(knights)) like the ancient rulers of the vos

Goblin magician preist

[irdeggman]

graham,
Send me an e-mail and I'll post your word doc as a downloadable file for you.

irdeggman@cox.net

[irdeggman]

Here's Graham's files in a Word document. I did a little editing for him. Made some things tables for ease of reading, converted to English (US) as default language {the standard for D&D} and added a little bolding, font color etc.

[irdeggman]

Here's some comments on the document:

You need to change the saving throw progression. There are only 2 types of saving throws in 3.5 (I'm assuming you are making this 3.5 version) Good and Poor - the progressions don't match.

Many of the class abilities aren't defined and need to be.

What is meant by +1 class level? For the bloodline hound? Is this +1 existing spellcaster level for spell progression? It is not clear.

Those are the ones that immediately jump out at me.

Off hand the prestige classes appear to be too powerful, but I'd have to look them over better to be sure. They just "feel" that way on first read.

[geeman]

First off, nice work. Kudos. Also, some kudos should go to Irdeggman for

a nicely (and quickly) formatted doc. My comments:



How about a title more in keeping with the BR naming scheme. "The Book of

Low Magic" or "The Book of Magicians."



The Magician character class write up should have a little blurb

explaining/listing their bonus feats.



Should the Magician have decipher script as a class skill?



For the Bloodline Hound +1 existing level for spellcasting in combination

with all those blood abilities is pretty powerful since the class needn`t

necessarily be taken only by magicians, so one can`t assume that the

ability is offset by the limited spell list of Magicians. Technically,

since most of those special abilities exist as spells maybe they should

just be dropped and be assumed to be part of the class` spell list. Then

one or two of the other special abilities could be distributed through that

level progression.



In the Crystal Gazer class. Does the class need the spell boost special

ability? It doesn`t seem to have much to do with crystals (or with

gazing....) Personally, I`m not wild about granting the ability to cast

realm spells as part of a class, especially when that class has +1 existing

spell level for spellcasting at every level, and non-Magicians would seem

to qualify for the class as well. IMO that should be either a general

system available to all non-regents or it shouldn`t exist at

all. Similarly, I`m not a big fan of battlespells... but if one is going

to include them then I don`t see any particular reason why a class should

grant access to them. As a system anybody who can cast the base spell

should be able to cast the (pah-thoo) battlespell. I like the gem

attunement and gem component abilities.



Gary

[graham anderson]

Thanks for the feed back


You need to change the saving throw progression. There are only 2 types of saving throws in 3.5 (I'm assuming you are making this 3.5 version) Good and Poor - the progressions don't match.

I didn't realise it had to be good or poor but they can be changed easily enough


Many of the class abilities aren't defined and need to be.

Yes some of them need to be defined or just defined better. I will get around to it soon


What is meant by +1 class level? For the bloodline hound? Is this +1 existing spellcaster level for spell progression? It is not clear.

I mean +1 existing spellcaster level



Off hand the prestige classes appear to be too powerful, but I'd have to look them over better to be sure. They just "feel" that way on first read.

I base any prestige class I create of the closest one that I find in the books. It depends on how powerfull you consider the abilitys. Some of the bloodline hounds abilitys may be quite powerfull but they only affect blooded individuals who are in the vast minority in any game. They will need a bit of work and testing before they get to a good level.


How about a title more in keeping with the BR naming scheme. "The Book of
Low Magic" or "The Book of Magicians."

Either of those is better than the magicians guide


The Magician character class write up should have a little blurb
explaining/listing their bonus feats.

I was trying to leave the bonus feats open to represtent the magicians adaptability and breadth of knowledge.


Should the Magician have decipher script as a class skill?

Maybe I don't know but they should be able to do without it by casting low level spells.


For the Bloodline Hound +1 existing level for spellcasting in combination
with all those blood abilities is pretty powerful since the class needn`t
necessarily be taken only by magicians, so one can`t assume that the
ability is offset by the limited spell list of Magicians. Technically,
since most of those special abilities exist as spells maybe they should
just be dropped and be assumed to be part of the class` spell list. Then
one or two of the other special abilities could be distributed through that
level progression.

I have thought of doing a few things like getting rid of the +1 existing class at the more powerfull abilitys. The abilitys arn't as powerfull as the look at first as they only affect blooded individuals.



In the Crystal Gazer class. Does the class need the spell boost special
ability? It doesn`t seem to have much to do with crystals (or with
gazing....)

Its to do with them being able to tap more mabhaigl threw their gems


Personally,I`m not wild about granting the ability to cast
realm spells as part of a class, especially when that class has +1 existing
spell level for spellcasting at every level, and non-Magicians would seem
to qualify for the class as well.

It was added in as a bit of flavour and requires a mabhaigl stone to construct. Ussualy that ability isn't available. Only practicioners of lesser magic can gain access to the classes.


Similarly, I`m not a big fan of battlespells... but if one is going
to include them then I don`t see any particular reason why a class should
grant access to them. As a system anybody who can cast the base spell
should be able to cast the (pah-thoo) battlespell.

This is the pinacle of the class and not something that a magician can normaly do as they cannot tap enough mabhaigl so it grants them an ability that they don't have.

[geeman]

At 02:56 AM 6/29/2004 +0200, Graham Anderson wrote:



>>How about a title more in keeping with the BR naming scheme. "The Book

>>ofLow Magic" or "The Book of Magicians."

>

>Either of those is better than the magicians guide



The Book of Practical Magic might be kind of punny....



>>The Magician character class write up should have a little

>>blurbexplaining/listing their bonus feats.

>

>I was trying to leave the bonus feats open to represtent the magicians

>adaptability and breadth of knowledge.



They should be magic oriented feats, or ones related to getting a bonus to

spellcraft and such, right? You don`t want some player taking Power

Attack, for instance....



>>For the Bloodline Hound +1 existing level for spellcasting in

>>combinationwith all those blood abilities is pretty powerful since the

>>class needn`tnecessarily be taken only by magicians, so one can`t assume

>>that theability is offset by the limited spell list of Magicians.

>>Technically,since most of those special abilities exist as spells maybe

>>they shouldjust be dropped and be assumed to be part of the class` spell

>>list. Thenone or two of the other special abilities could be distributed

>>through thatlevel progression.

>

>I have thought of doing a few things like getting rid of the +1 existing

>class at the more powerfull abilitys. The abilitys arn`t as powerfull as

>the look at first as they only affect blooded individuals.



That`s true, several aren`t as powerful as all that in general. In the

course of playing a BR campaign, however, the likelihood of running into

blooded individuals is probably pretty high and one or two (like Mimic

Blood Ability) are proportionately more powerful....



Gary

[graham anderson]

I was trying to leave the bonus feats open to represtent the magicians
>adaptability and breadth of knowledge.

They should be magic oriented feats, or ones related to getting a bonus to
spellcraft and such, right? You don`t want some player taking Power
Attack, for instance....

Maybe just non combat feats so you can get skill based feats etc as well as magic feats.

[ConjurerDragon]

graham anderson schrieb:



>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=2708

>

> graham anderson wrote:

>...Characteristics: Although the study of lesser magic is less demanding than the pursuit of true magic, magicians cannot afford to depend on their art alone to provide them with safety and a livelihood.

>

For a text that is only to describe the flair of the class I don´t

understand that it has to be the opposite of the original version in

which Magicians had to work harder as they lacked a bloodline.

bye

Michael

[graham anderson]

> graham anderson wrote:
>...Characteristics: Although the study of lesser magic is less demanding than the pursuit of true magic, magicians cannot afford to depend on their art alone to provide them with safety and a livelihood.
>
For a text that is only to describe the flair of the class I don´t
understand that it has to be the opposite of the original version in
which Magicians had to work harder as they lacked a bloodline.

I took that from the book of magecraft they might mean that it takes less strain upon the body to cast magicians spells as they don't use as much magical force. It is a little contradictory.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by graham anderson@Jun 28 2004, 07:56 PM


Similarly, I`m not a big fan of battlespells... but if one is going
to include them then I don`t see any particular reason why a class should
grant access to them. As a system anybody who can cast the base spell
should be able to cast the (pah-thoo) battlespell.

This is the pinacle of the class and not something that a magician can normaly do as they cannot tap enough mabhaigl so it grants them an ability that they don't have.
Why would the magician class not normally be able to cast battle spells? The BRCs only requires a feat in order to be able to do this and the 2nd ed material made no distinction specifiying that only blooded caster could cast battle spells.

IMO, it is far too restrictive to say that you need to be blooded in order to cast battle spells.

[graham anderson]

Why would the magician class not normally be able to cast battle spells? The BRCs only requires a feat in order to be able to do this and the 2nd ed material made no distinction specifiying that only blooded caster could cast battle spells.

IMO, it is far too restrictive to say that you need to be blooded in order to cast battle spells.

You had to be blooded in second ed and for good reason to cast a battle spell you have to channel far more mabhaigl than you normaly would something that a magician is not capable of doing. That is my opinion what do other people think.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by graham anderson@Jun 29 2004, 11:18 AM

Why would the magician class not normally be able to cast battle spells? The BRCs only requires a feat in order to be able to do this and the 2nd ed material made no distinction specifiying that only blooded caster could cast battle spells.

IMO, it is far too restrictive to say that you need to be blooded in order to cast battle spells.

You had to be blooded in second ed and for good reason to cast a battle spell you have to channel far more mabhaigl than you normaly would something that a magician is not capable of doing. That is my opinion what do other people think.
That may be an opinion but it wasn't a rule in 2nd ed BR. You need to be careful when presenting things like this as if they are facts and rules from 2nd ed. It is pefectly alright to use this as a houserule but when making something to be used by others assumptions like this need to be clearly stated - and you should expect to have them critized.

Rain of Magic Missiles was a 1st level evoc/invoc spell, something that a magician could readily have in his arsenal.

Remember that battle spells frequently required assistance to cast. Hallucinatory Terrain was listed as a conventional spell that could be used as a battle spell - this is very much a magician based spell.

It should be noted that the BoM uses the term wizard d to refer to all magic users (i.e., wizards and magicians). It uses the term true wizards when only refering to the wizard class from the BRRB. Another one of the long line of inconsistencies in the BR line.

[graham anderson]

That may be an opinion but it wasn't a rule in 2nd ed BR. You need to be careful when presenting things like this as if they are facts and rules from 2nd ed. It is pefectly alright to use this as a houserule but when making something to be used by others assumptions like this need to be clearly stated - and you should expect to have them critized.

It wasn't a rule in 2nd ed sorry I was wrong but it should have been how can the magicians channel the mabhaigl required it doesn't make any sense. They shouldn't have access to it if you can explain why they should I will change it otherwise I will alter it to say they cannot in the base class.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by graham anderson@Jun 30 2004, 08:41 AM
It wasn't a rule in 2nd ed sorry I was wrong but it should have been how can the magicians channel the mabhaigl required it doesn't make any sense. They shouldn't have access to it if you can explain why they should I will change it otherwise I will alter it to say they cannot in the base class.
For one in 2nd ed they assumed that many standard spells affected units as written. For example Fireball, the Hallucinatory Terrain, etc. Things that affected areas were considered to have an effect on a unit (i.e., a battlefield effect).

Also there was the helpers issue. It may have required more power to get the battlefield effect for some spells (rain of magic missiles for instance) but that drawing of the power was spread over a number of people instead of asingle individual.

In the BRCS it is assumed that the battle spells are more a skill based thing and not a pure power (i.e., mebhaigl based) issue. In the BRCS it is how you use the spell that counts not the specifics of the spell. That is why there is a feat involved.

[graham anderson]

For one in 2nd ed they assumed that many standard spells affected units as written. For example Fireball, the Hallucinatory Terrain, etc. Things that affected areas were considered to have an effect on a unit (i.e., a battlefield effect).

Yes area affects affect all within that area.



Also there was the helpers issue. It may have required more power to get the battlefield effect for some spells (rain of magic missiles for instance) but that drawing of the power was spread over a number of people instead of asingle individual.

I am still very dubious it smacks of an attempt to make magicians more tempting to players. It doesn't realy fit with the idea of lesser magic.


In the BRCS it is assumed that the battle spells are more a skill based thing and not a pure power (i.e., mebhaigl based) issue. In the BRCS it is how you use the spell that counts not the specifics of the spell. That is why there is a feat involved.

That is very dubious if thats the case why can't magicians cast fireball they could just increase their skill and learn to do it.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by graham anderson@Jun 30 2004, 09:53 AM

In the BRCS it is assumed that the battle spells are more a skill based thing and not a pure power (i.e., mebhaigl based) issue. In the BRCS it is how you use the spell that counts not the specifics of the spell. That is why there is a feat involved.

That is very dubious if thats the case why can't magicians cast fireball they could just increase their skill and learn to do it.
You are confusing things here. In the BRCS the actual spell in question doesn't matter. All spells have their effects reduced to a modifier to a unit's stats (see pg 130 of the BRCS and the feat is on pg 26).

This does not mean that a magician can cast a fireball, only that he can cast a spell that has a similar effect on a unit's stats.

One of the reasons for this reduction to set effects was to reduce the amount of DM fiat required to ejudicate a game. Otherwise a DM must figure out what every possible spell (cast by any caster) can do in a battle. Have simplified/standardized game effects is also in line with 3.5.

Something else to consider is how is divine magic affected by you outlook on battle magic? Can a non-blooded cleric cast a battle spell? The concept is the same.

[graham anderson]

You are confusing things here. In the BRCS the actual spell in question doesn't matter. All spells have their effects reduced to a modifier to a unit's stats (see pg 130 of the BRCS and the feat is on pg 26).

This does not mean that a magician can cast a fireball, only that he can cast a spell that has a similar effect on a unit's stats.

One of the reasons for this reduction to set effects was to reduce the amount of DM fiat required to ejudicate a game. Otherwise a DM must figure out what every possible spell (cast by any caster) can do in a battle. Have simplified/standardized game effects is also in line with 3.5.

It is the magician casting it I have a problem with not its effects on the stats. Their is a difference between battle magic and a spell that can effect an area. I do think that the battle magic is a little weak and meny of the effects(penalties to units etc) could be duplicated with a basic spell.


Something else to consider is how is divine magic affected by you outlook on battle magic? Can a non-blooded cleric cast a battle spell? The concept is the same.

divine magic is different you do not have to be blooded to be a preist. they can cast battle spells if their gods grants them the power.

[irdeggman]

Graham I think you missing something here.

By stating spells that have an area effect work in battle but are different than battle spells is a premise that is not supported in 2nd ed BR. They were the same. There were some spells that were specifically created to have a battle effect (again see Rain of Magic Missiles) but the BoM basically had them treated the same.

Also by inserting the 'conditional' magic for priests is another stretch for 3.5, it is not the 'norm' for D&D (3.5).

If you are going to use 3.5 then use it if not then create something different, but mixing D&D systems is just asking for trouble, IMO.

Let's look at some of the 'area' spells in 3.5 (not present in 3.0) any of the mass spells - every one could reasonably be used in battle. Gosh the mass curing spells pretty much make the Cure Unit spells obsolete, how about mass invisibility, mass bull's strength, mass bear's endurance etc.?

[graham anderson]

irdeggman I think you missing something here.

A battle spell is different form an area affect spell. I have no problem with a magician casting an area affect spell battle spells are different.

Preist gain their power from the god not themselves and theirfore can cast battle spells but some gods might not allow their preists to.

Everything will go to 3.5 not three but sometimes mistakes are made. Athough there are some changes scry for example.

[irdeggman]

A battle spell is different form an area affect spell. I have no problem with a magician casting an area affect spell battle spells are different.

Yup, you are right. BoM dis specify a difference, but it didn't really have a different effect - and area effect spells were pretty much immune to being converted. One note though BoM pg 97 "This chapter describes "battle spells", a type of magic that enables wizards and magicians to draw on even a limited repertoire of spells to become avital part of any military campaign."


Preist gain their power from the god not themselves and theirfore can cast battle spells but some gods might not allow their preists to.

Yes and no. In 2nd ed (BoP pg 97) a priest who wanted to learn a battle spell had to perform independent research (just like a wizard or magician) and then he knew the battle magic spell. This was not an automatically granted spell accessable to all priests, only those who researched it (and those who learned it from someone who had researched it) could cast it. in 3.5 PHB pg 180 it also describes divine spell research, pretty much like arcane spell research and the only one who can cast the spell is the one who did the research unless shared with others.

PHB pg 32 "Instead they meditate or pray for their spells, receiving them through their own strength of faith or as divine inpiration." This is slightly different from the simple version on pg 179 of the 3.5 PHB "Clerics gain spell power from deities or from divine forces." or the Complete Divine pg 6 "Clerics and other divine spellcasters receive their spells by praying to the deity, who bestows upon them a measure of divine power."

So there is some leeway in interpretation of how a cleric gets his spells. I read this as the deity grants the power (broadly not via specific spells), this power also translates into his other divine abilities (like turning undead) and then the cleric chooses the spells he memorizes with this power. IMO this is easier to explain why not every cleric can cast a researched spell once one cleric of the deity has 'learned' it.



So basically we will have to agree to disagree. :D

[RaspK_FOG]

I believe that the Magician should be able to choose from a wider range of feats, including feats that allow him to better work as a wandering mage.

[graham anderson]

I believe that the Magician should be able to choose from a wider range of feats, including feats that allow him to better work as a wandering mage.

I agree the magician should have access to a wide range of feats.