Vosgaard question

[anacreon]

I have not yet read "Tribes of the Heartless Waste", and so I do not know anything of its contents, but I always assumed it was in the same format as "Ruins of Empire", "Cities of the Sun", "The Rjurik Highland" and "Havens of the Great Bay". However, I stumbled upon a map from it in the Cartographer's Guild - http://www.saers.com/~cobos/index.html - and noticed that not all realms in Vosgaard have their statistics in it (places like Tuar Annwn, the Icemarch, the Battle Fens, and the Mistmoor). Why did TSR not give the stats for those realms in the map?

[geeman]

At 08:20 AM 6/15/2004 +0200, anacreon wrote:



>Why did TSR not give the stats for those realms in the map?



The poster-sized map for TotHW does not list the stats for the domains that

are in the "The Feral Lands" section of that campaign expansion, and those

provinces are not given stats in that text at all, I`m afraid. Supposedly,

they are not habited by anything other than monsters and various small

bands, and have no controlling regents. One would think they would still

have stats listed (population 0/source potential by terrain type) but no

such luck.



Gary

[graham anderson]

The feral areas are not necessarily underpopulated but they have no significant organisation. This coupled with the fact that people outside of these areas know very little about them has meant that they are left blank. You just don't know what is in there. You may have an idea goblin tribes , kobolds etc but you just don't know.

[anacreon]

But Tuar Annwn is described as an elven land in "Atlas of Cerilia" in the Boxed Set...

Will these realms be given stats in the 3rd ed. Atlas?

[geeman]

At 01:05 PM 6/15/2004 +0200, graham anderson wrote:



> The feral areas are not necessarily underpopulated but they have no

> significant organisation.



There is text that would indicate they are underpopulated. The Battle Fens

are "virtually uninhabited and unexplored". "Few Vos visit the Icemarch

and none live there."



The elven land of Tuar Annwn is amongst the domains described as being part

of the Feral Lands. Though a realm "half in shadow" it would appear to be

an elven realm like any other, so one would think it would still have

population levels and source potential of its provinces listed even if they

are lower in population than other elven realms.



Gary

[graham anderson]

Tuar Annwn is partly in the shadow world and unless you are from their or are very powerfull you cannot enter it. Hence it is blank no one knows what it is like in their except the few elves that leave it.

I don't know what they plan for the atlas.

In one of my games I had tuar annwn expanding as it is hinted at in the book. They expand the barrier slowly swallowing provinces and forcing tribes from their lands causing chaos and war in vosgaard as they reclaim their ancestoral lands.

[graham anderson]

There is text that would indicate they are underpopulated. The Battle Fens
are "virtually uninhabited and unexplored". "Few Vos visit the Icemarch
and none live there

Humans consider them uninhabited but they are not there is giants, ice trolls , ice goblins, human canibals and others. It is the human arrogance that if we are not their then it is uninhabited.

[Raesene Andu]

Originally posted by anacreon@Jun 15 2004, 08:58 PM
But Tuar Annwn is described as an elven land in "Atlas of Cerilia" in the Boxed Set...

Will these realms be given stats in the 3rd ed. Atlas?
All of the lands listed as "The Ferel Lands" will be better described in the Atlas of Cerilia, including Tuar Annwn. Many of those lands will be 0/* provinces though, uninhabited or wild lands.

[Benjamin]

Ooooh!! A question I can answer! I am a huge Vosgaard fan, and have read ToHW a lot.

As many others have already said, many of the unmarked territories are basically sparsely inhabited and uncontrolled. Ice March gets its name because it is mostly glacier/snow covered. Only wandering bands of ice trolls, remhorraz and other monsters can be found there. Most times you will never encounter anything but simply die from the weather.

As Prince Raesene stated, Tuar Annwn is in the Shadow World. Those lands have effectively vanished from Cerelia, and thus it is impossible to interact with them in the traditional Birthright fashion. Ratings just don't mean anything.

Mistmoor is another place similar to this. It is basically haunted, and closely tied to the Shadow World. True, caravans pass through there, but just as many vanish without a trace as make it through.

Battle Fens are a nightmare place, too, with lots of side-effects of the tragedy that before Tuar Annwn affecting it. Supposedly only a few halfling guides are able to get you through there. Otherwise you get lost in the region due to spacial distortions caused by proximity to the Shadow World. Not to mention the fact that there are lots and lots and LOTS of undead. The region got its name from an ancient battle that took place over many days but wiped out a massive elven and Vos army. The powerful items they used can still be found, but those are also causing spatial distortions. Seems like someone who is a big Star Trek fan wrote about this region, because it is the least BR area in any product (except perhaps Sword of Roele). Picture the Dead Marshes scene in Two Towers with mini iceburgs all over, and Matrix ripples.

And to echo what others have said, the feral regions are basically uninhabited and very dangerous. Thus there is no source rating given, because any wizard foolish enough to visit an area for a few months to become acquainted with any source manifestations is food for something bigger and meaner. And trust me, there are LOTS of bigger and meaner monsters throughout those regions. I don't think HM Aelis would wander around there, even if he had Hermedhie, Sword Mage, and Swamp Mages 1 & 2 with him.

[graham anderson]

I don't like the way people portray the areas as empty their are intelligent beings in them. Giants , goblins etc even degenerate humans. I prefer the areas to be left with no pop or source info people just don't know enough about them.

[anacreon]

How did Tuar Annwn get to be in the Shadow World? I thought elves despised necromancy (it's a shunned school and all), and that they become mortal in the Shadow World (as is stated in Blood Spawn).

[graham anderson]

It is hinted at that the mages responsible have been banished. It worked though the elves have survived and grown strong once more.

[A_dark]

Tuar Annwn exists in BOTH planes at the same time. This has allowed the elves to still be immortal, but they appear gaunt an exhausted. The book says that according to legend the elves have acquired vampiric abilities. It also says that when the elves were losing the war against Velenoye they cast some powerful spells and lost control of them causing Tuar Annwn to shift into the Shadow World.

[teloft]

I like all the responses we goten,

Im still intrested in the name vosgaard
I know the meaning of the word "gaard" or gard,
it represent a man maid fortress or walls thet keep unvanted things out. Yep, a fortress or even City walls.

"Ás-gard-ur" the fortress of the Gods (Nordic lore) maid from the teeth of the fyrst giant slain by the gods.

"drápust öll úr vos-búð" means : thay all died from vos-búð

"Búð" can means hapitation of somesort

"Vos" is probebly a place in "Hell" or something of thet sort.

My understanding of the word "vos" is when you are not properly equipt / traind for the tasks comming, and therefore you are likely to suffer a lot, or even die.

So, Vosgaard means basicly to strugle for life, and live agenst conditions you have no hope to figth.

Has anyone other thougths on the topic?

[soudhadies]

So, Vosgaard means basicly to strugle for life, and live agenst conditions you have no hope to figth.


Hmm. I had always assumed Vosgaard meant "That place where the Vos live". kind of like England was "That place where the Angles live" or Cumberland was "That place where Cymri live".

Now if you're asking where the name for the Vos themselves, I think you should probably look to russian more than to a nordic language (Assuming the name wasn't just made up), because that seems to be the basis for much of the Vos nomenclature. Plus, its quite possible that the designers knew a fair bit about the old Rus. After all, the mythical first king of the Rus was a norseman named Rurik, and if that name doesn't ring any bells . . .

[Osprey]

Now if you're asking where the name for the Vos themselves, I think you should probably look to russian more than to a nordic language (Assuming the name wasn't just made up), because that seems to be the basis for much of the Vos nomenclature. Plus, its quite possible that the designers knew a fair bit about the old Rus. After all, the mythical first king of the Rus was a norseman named Rurik, and if that name doesn't ring any bells . . .

Hah hah hah! You think "Vos" wasn't a made-up name? Please..it rings so blatantly "this sounds like a good Slavic/Norse harsh wintry name. Yeah, Vos, that sounds cool. Vosgaard...yeah that sounds cool. And they'll be like the Dark Age Russians, only darker and more bruatal...yeah, cool."

There's a great thread somewhere a ways back about translating the Brecht names into German...some of the translations were pretty friggin hilarious, and blatantly exposed the BR creators' ignorance of German on any level below the surface. I think you'll find this holds even more true for the Vos, which I suspect the creators knew less about in terms of grounded historical and linguistic resaearch than any of the other BR cultures. I'd even bet money on it...do you think it a coincidence that they're located way out on the fringe, furthest from Anuire (the original core BR setting around which most of the rest of the campaign world was created/centered).

Osprey