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darkstar
04-07-1998, 02:42 AM
Shade wrote:

> My question is, are the gods mentioned in the BR boxed set the only deities
> in Aebrynis?

Perhaps, although they are really only the gods of the tribe that
travelled to Cerilia. Other races from other lands could also have their
own gods.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://darkstar.cyberserv.com
ICQ: 2938300

Neil Barnes
04-07-1998, 09:42 AM
On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, darkstar wrote:
> Shade wrote:
> > My question is, are the gods mentioned in the BR boxed set the only deities
> > in Aebrynis?
>
> Perhaps, although they are really only the gods of the tribe that
> travelled to Cerilia. Other races from other lands could also have their
> own gods.

I see the Six Tribes (and possibly a seventh, Azrai worshipping Tribe)
as belonging to a single culture, probably originating in Aduria, and
being forced north over time by a steady expansion of cultures to the
south of them.

This then is why they share the same pantheon, and why other cultures
elsewhere on Cerilia might have totally different types of Gods (or
follow Forces or Philosophies ;)

neil

Shade
04-07-1998, 12:47 PM
At 06:39 PM 4/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Here's a thought. How do we know there was only ONE Diesmaar? I mean,
>greater gods can take on some ungodly number of avatars (20+ I think),
>so what's to say that as Azrai spread out from Aduria, that he only went
>in one direction?
> For all we know the deities in other parts of the world took on avatar
>form in their regions to battle the encroaching Shadow, and so now
>thanks to things like the Battle of Heilikae Desert and the Battle of
>the Frostkist Sea, the whole of Æbrynis has bloodlines.

This is very interesting. Yes, that would provide an excellent justification
for the existence of bloodlines in other lands.

My question is, are the gods mentioned in the BR boxed set the only deities
in Aebrynis?

darkstar
04-07-1998, 03:07 PM
Neil Barnes wrote:

> I see the Six Tribes (and possibly a seventh, Azrai worshipping Tribe)
> as belonging to a single culture, probably originating in Aduria, and
> being forced north over time by a steady expansion of cultures to the
> south of them.

Well actually it was only Five Tribes from Aduria, the other from
Djapar. I have been thinking something similar but with each tribe
having a patron god (Andu = Anduiras, Vos = Vorynn).
I am actually working on something that everyone might find interesting.
It is called the true history of Azari (written by his priests in
Aduria) and has a lot of (slighly inaccurate) history about how the gods
came to be worshipped in Aduria. Of course this is only my idea on this,
but if you are interested it will be avalible from my webpage in a week
or two.

> This then is why they share the same pantheon, and why other cultures
> elsewhere on Cerilia might have totally different types of Gods (or
> follow Forces or Philosophies ;)

There is certainly no reason why other lands do not have their own gods.
However it does say in the Atlas of Cerilia (page 4-5) that the Basarji
worshipped the goddess Basaia, who was also part of the Pantheon of the
other tribes that settled in Cerilia.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://darkstar.cyberserv.com
ICQ: 2938300

Daniel McSorley
04-07-1998, 05:53 PM
Wow, there's a lot of good stuff on the list today! Darkstar, I liked your
writeup too, I'm going to have to use bits and pieces of both of these.
I just have one little nit to pick with both of them, you both had the
idea about each god having a deity. I was under the impression that Azrai
_never_ had a tribe, and when the tribes settled on one main god apiece, he
was left out in the cold, which could have caused his descent into hatred
and jealousy of the other gods.
Both of you talk about the "Adurians, I'll quote Tim, his message is
handier. He talks about how the "Adurians were Azrai's people, just as the
Anuireans were Anduirias' and the Masetians were Masella's, etc." I don't
think Adurian was a racial group at all. The Andu were the ancestors of the
Anuireans, and I think the term "Adurian" applies to each of the five tribes
that came originally from that continent, in addition to all the people that
they left behind.
Other than that, I think this is excellent work on both your parts, I
love it.
Daniel McSorley
mcsorley.1@osu.edu
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~mcsorley/
ICQ:5299865
AIM:DanMcS

Neil Barnes
04-08-1998, 09:09 AM
On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, darkstar wrote:
> Neil Barnes wrote:
>
> > I see the Six Tribes (and possibly a seventh, Azrai worshipping Tribe)
> > as belonging to a single culture, probably originating in Aduria, and
> > being forced north over time by a steady expansion of cultures to the
> > south of them.
>
> Well actually it was only Five Tribes from Aduria, the other from
> Djapar.

Good point. The thingI probably failed to mention was that I imagine
that Djapar & Aduria link up somewhere to the south, so as the six/
seven tribes migrated north and became more distinct (in really early
prehistory) the proto-Basarji ended up on the other side of the sea in
Djapar, rather than in Aduria.

> I have been thinking something similar but with each tribe
> having a patron god (Andu = Anduiras, Vos = Vorynn).

As you mention below, each tribe only worships one god, but they
recognise the existance of the others.

> I am actually working on something that everyone might find interesting.
> It is called the true history of Azari (written by his priests in
> Aduria) and has a lot of (slighly inaccurate) history about how the gods
> came to be worshipped in Aduria. Of course this is only my idea on this,
> but if you are interested it will be avalible from my webpage in a week
> or two.

This sounds interesting. I'll probably disagree with it, but I'd like to
see it.

I see the Tribes pre-Deismaar as being at an early Iron age level of
development. Andu hillforts would be something of a mystery to modern
Anuireans - just strange grassy structures on top of hills.

neil

darkstar
04-08-1998, 02:49 PM
Daniel McSorley wrote:

> I just have one little nit to pick with both of them, you both had the
> idea about each god having a deity. I was under the impression that Azrai
> _never_ had a tribe, and when the tribes settled on one main god apiece, he
> was left out in the cold, which could have caused his descent into hatred
> and jealousy of the other gods.

Actually this is what I put down as happening. There were in the times
before the rise of the Adurian Empire 7 main tribes or cultures. And six
of these followed seperate gods, while the other worshipper all the
gods. This did not at the time leave Azari with much in the way of
worshippers something which he did not like much, and begin a god who
wanted power it did not make him a happy chappy at all.


> Both of you talk about the "Adurians, I'll quote Tim, his message is
> handier. He talks about how the "Adurians were Azrai's people, just as the
> Anuireans were Anduirias' and the Masetians were Masella's, etc." I don't
> think Adurian was a racial group at all. The Andu were the ancestors of the
> Anuireans, and I think the term "Adurian" applies to each of the five tribes
> that came originally from that continent, in addition to all the people that
> they left behind.

The Adurians in my history were not as such a different race, but a
composite of both the Masetians, and the Andu following a war which led
the people who would become the Adurians to flee south of the Andu
territories in search of a new life and that sort of thing. They have
over time though developed into a seperate race, with their own culutre,
but still look similar to Anuirean or the Masetian people.
They were the people who were shaped by Azari into a mighty empire, the
empire that drove out five of the seven ancient races first the
Masetian, Andu, and Vos and later the Rjurik and Brecht people. This
took place of a space of around two-three hundred years and ended with
the Adurian Empire in control of much of the continent.
However while all the people of the southern continent could be called
Adurian it was the people of this empire that took the name as their
own.

Hmm that probably doesn't make it any clearer, but I am working on a
very large history of Aduria which I hope to finish the first part of
shortly. That will make things a lot clearer.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://darkstar.cyberserv.com
ICQ: 2938300

darkstar
04-08-1998, 03:03 PM
Neil Barnes wrote:

> Good point. The thingI probably failed to mention was that I imagine
> that Djapar & Aduria link up somewhere to the south, so as the six/
> seven tribes migrated north and became more distinct (in really early
> prehistory) the proto-Basarji ended up on the other side of the sea in
> Djapar, rather than in Aduria.

That is a good point, my current map of Aduria does not have it joining
up with Djapar, but it is only a rough sketch and the southern region
can be changed, perhaps adding a chain of islands that led to the
southern reaches of Djapar. What is everyone else's opinion on this?


> > I am actually working on something that everyone might find interesting.
> > It is called the true history of Azari (written by his priests in
> > Aduria) and has a lot of (slighly inaccurate) history about how the gods
> > came to be worshipped in Aduria. Of course this is only my idea on this,
> > but if you are interested it will be avalible from my webpage in a week
> > or two.
>
> This sounds interesting. I'll probably disagree with it, but I'd like to
> see it.

Well it is written so that you are supposed to disagree with it. It is
part of the holy book of Azari's priests in Aduria so isn't likely to
tell the truth about their god.


> I see the Tribes pre-Deismaar as being at an early Iron age level of
> development. Andu hillforts would be something of a mystery to modern
> Anuireans - just strange grassy structures on top of hills.

I put something like this in for the Andu, before they were driven out
by the Adurian who were taught new skills by Azari and were able to
dominate the other tribes.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://darkstar.cyberserv.com
ICQ: 2938300

Shade
04-09-1998, 05:05 AM
At 12:33 AM 4/9/98 +0930, you wrote:
>Neil Barnes wrote:
>
>> Good point. The thingI probably failed to mention was that I imagine
>> that Djapar & Aduria link up somewhere to the south, so as the six/
>> seven tribes migrated north and became more distinct (in really early
>> prehistory) the proto-Basarji ended up on the other side of the sea in
>> Djapar, rather than in Aduria.
>
>That is a good point, my current map of Aduria does not have it joining
>up with Djapar, but it is only a rough sketch and the southern region
>can be changed, perhaps adding a chain of islands that led to the
>southern reaches of Djapar. What is everyone else's opinion on this?

I disagree here. My timeline for Djapar says that humans originally evolved in
what is now Aduria (many millenia ago), and some spread over that continent,
and some found a small land bridge to another continent (similar to the Bering
Strait) and crossed it. The land bridge has since disappeared (in fact the
continents are not shaped the same as when the humans first evolved).

darkstar
04-09-1998, 07:30 AM
Shade wrote:

> I disagree here. My timeline for Djapar says that humans originally evolved in
> what is now Aduria (many millenia ago), and some spread over that continent,
> and some found a small land bridge to another continent (similar to the Bering
> Strait) and crossed it. The land bridge has since disappeared (in fact the
> continents are not shaped the same as when the humans first evolved).

Well I was thinking a chain of islands (perhaps the remains of the land
bridge). In the timeline I am writing for Aduria has human civilisation
in Aduria begining 6-7000 years ago, but before that time humanity was
mainly nomadic so there is no reason why humans from Aduria couldn't end
up in Djapar. They would have developed differently from the Adurians
though and the level of population would not be as high.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://darkstar.cyberserv.com
ICQ: 2938300

Neil Barnes
04-12-1998, 03:21 PM
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, darkstar wrote:
> That is a good point, my current map of Aduria does not have it joining
> up with Djapar, but it is only a rough sketch and the southern region
> can be changed, perhaps adding a chain of islands that led to the
> southern reaches of Djapar. What is everyone else's opinion on this?

I imagine that the Andu and the Basarji were both nomadic horsemen-based
tribes. I see Basaia and Anduiras being brother & sister (which, yes
does raise the possibility of Deismaar being the latest in a sequence of
such events, possibly).

As the tribes moved north and became separated by distance, the two
tribes diverged, becoming more different over time.

> I put something like this in for the Andu, before they were driven out
> by the Adurian who were taught new skills by Azari and were able to
> dominate the other tribes.

One idea I was toying with is that the gods started breaking the rules
long before Deismaar, and gave their peoples all sorts of extra hints
(divine inspiration) on technology to give them an edge before the
battle - this explains the existance of Brecht Tower-ships and
Field-plate in what I see as being a fairly primitive level of culture.

(The Masetians were at the level of the ancient Greeks, and were the
most advanced culture by quite a long way.)

neil

DKEvermore
04-13-1998, 01:11 PM
In a message dated 98-04-12 11:27:32 EDT, you write:

> I imagine that the Andu and the Basarji were both nomadic horsemen-based
> tribes. I see Basaia and Anduiras being brother & sister (which, yes
> does raise the possibility of Deismaar being the latest in a sequence of
> such events, possibly).
>
I think you have some good ideas, but I thought the Basarji were from islands
not a part of the continent of Aduria, according to the histories.

I can see how the Rjurik and early Andu might be closely related, however.
- -DKEvermore