Eberron steals BR ideas

[Azrai]

While writing a review for Wizards new campaign setting Eberron which will be released these days I realised that the Eberron designers included a very similar system to the Birthright bloodlines.

They call it "dragonmarks" and they use a system very similar to some ideas of the Birthright D20 Team.

There are three dragonmarks: least , lesser and greater. To posses a dragonmark, a character must take a dragonmark feat. He can increase the power of the dragonmark adding the lesser and greater feats and by taking levels in the dragonmark heir prestige class.

Looks like the feat system idea of our bloodlines. The dragonmark heir PrC could be compared to the scion class.

Coincidence or idea-theft ;)

[irdeggman]

Or based on the feat approach for blood abilities from Dragon #315.

Without looking it over too much I'd say probably not an issue.

Although the bit about taking levels in the prestige class sounds a bit much like scion class levels.

[Birthright-L]

Azrai said:

> While writing a review for Wizards new campaign setting Eberron which

> will be released these days I realised that the Eberron designers

> included a very similar system to the Birthright bloodlines.They call it

> "dragonmarks" and they use a system very similar to some ideas

> of the Birthright D20 Team.Therere three dragonmarks: least , lesser and

> greater. To posses a dragonmark, a character must take a dragonmark

> feat. He can increase the power of the dragonmark adding the lesser and

> greater feats and by taking levels in the dragonmark heir prestige

> class.



Wow, how do you steal your own intellectual property exactly? :)



There are only so many ways you can handle "special inheritable powers"

with d20, that the methods are similar might not necessarily imply

plagiarism.



--

John Machin

(trithemius@kallisti.net.nz)

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

- Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.

[RaspK_FOG]

Even if it was "plagiarism", which I doubt, we are putting our thoughts and minds here in essentially PUBLIC DOMAIN form, since we do not use a closed down form.

[Birthright-L]

RaspK_FOG said:

> Even if it was "plagiarism", which I doubt, we are putting our

> thoughts and minds here in essentially PUBLIC DOMAIN form, since we do

> not use a closed down form.



Precisely.



--

John Machin

(trithemius@kallisti.net.nz)

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

- Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.

[soudhadies]

If you look at this month's issue of Dragon, there is an article on the Dragonmarks (I also noticed the similarity), but there is also a side bar that explains the developement of the concept, which seems to indicate that it arose through a different thought than did bloodlines. I think it is somewhat of a coincidence personally.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by RaspK_FOG@Jun 10 2004, 11:25 PM
Even if it was "plagiarism", which I doubt, we are putting our thoughts and minds here in essentially PUBLIC DOMAIN form, since we do not use a closed down form.
True but check out the following:

http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2339

There is a post with the "contract" that "Official" fansites have with WotC. (It is their contract).

Pay attention to the last part of the contract:


Content created on the official website is considered to be derivative work (as it is based on the intellectual property owned by Wizards of the Coast). This means that fan-created add-ons (such as new net books, adventures, etc.) are jointly owned by both Wizards of the Coast and the creator; neither can do anything outside the official website without the permission of the other.

Now it comes down to "how similar" the material is. The description in Dragon #320 looks pretty similar, but probably different enough to not be the same.

Dragon #315 presented BR blood abilities using feats. (Not WotC but written by a WotC employee).

Unearthed Arcana presented bloodlines using a different system that paralled character level (not really a bloodline class - they were 'empty' class levels to balance out the inherent level adjustments).

We were the first to put out a scion class that worked the way it does, which is pretty similar to the Dragonmark Heir class presented in Dragon. I first posted a version of the scion class back in April of 2003. With the present version pretty much coming out in Nov of 2003.


Since the BR.net is posted as a link as the "Official" fansite on the WotC boards it is difficult for the company to deny having had a likelihood of seeing the material. Even though I'm sure that most employees there don't bother to check on the sites, there is responsibility there.

See the BRCS FAQ links.

http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2340

[geeman]

Bearcat writes:



> I think it is somewhat of a coincidence personally.



Yeah, there is a _similarity_ but I think you`re right. It`s a coincidence.

By and large, the BR bloodline system is much more extensive and

significant, so I don`t think it really infringes. Unfortunately, it`s

probably not even similar enough to inspire people`s interest in BR....



Gary

[morgramen]

Hmmm... it even looks like Cerilia...

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eb/20040611a

Steam and magic combos are so not my thing though.

[RaspK_FOG]

I had not seen the campaign setting map until now; now that I did, it kind of reminds me of the old "Knights of the Dinner Table" strip, in one of whose issues Hard8 Enterprices were supposedly trying to do something new so as to get "back on-line", so they redo one of their old rejected dungeon-hack projects up, change this and that, and publish it as space-hack material...

<_<

[irdeggman]

Interesting Rasp, but wasn&#39;t this Eberron thing supposed to be a reward for winning a contest and creating a &#39;new&#39; campaign setting?

[RaspK_FOG]

... I know, but even Johann Sebastian Bach once said: "Nobody has ever created anything original." When he was later on asked on what he meant by that, since they must have surely misinterpreted his words, he answered saying that we all are influenced by our knowledge and past experience and act accordingly, even when making art.

[soudhadies]

You could also make the argument that it resembles pre-cataclysmic Ansalon from Dragonlance. I think that it isn&#39;t so much in the origin of the idea as in the medium of the map. That is, most maps have the same proportions as a piece of paper, and if you want a map that focuses on a continent that is completely included in the scope of that map, maximizes land area, while retaining a certain amount of realistic appearance, you end up with that rough continental shape.

[Solmyr]

Interestingly, Eberron (at least Khorvaire) looks like it could make a nice setting for a BR conversion, with the political situation there.

[OsricIlien]

Though there is certainly some similarity between the two concepts there is also quite a large difference in the setting that make the Dragonmarks very different from anything in BR. Korvair was fairly obviously based on Europe after WWI they just had there Last War. (hmmm.) And the design of the continent is like many Euro centric style continents that many artists have rendered. I have dont think any intellectual property was stolen by anyone. I just see similar ideas.