Knights of the Iron Throne

[Daniel McSorley]

> From: Fredrik Lundberg
>
> Hello everyone
> I got an idea a few days ago about trying to transfer the Pious Knight
from the Legends and Lore 2ed book to Birthright (for those of you who do
not have a copy of it go to http://www.tsr.com/adndcore/oop.html there you
can find an RTF version of it) and this is what I came up with. This is
only the first "version" of my thoughts and now I would like your comments
on it so that it might become better.
>
> "Knights of the IronThrone.

> To redeem themselves they have taken it upon themselves to find the
new emperor. They are a semi-secret order who's members often comes from
the Imperial guards, and they are very particular about who gets to join.
Only those people who are considered worthy are accepted. To become a
member one must first be sponsored by an already existing member then the
pledge is given the sacred quest of finding one person worthy of becoming
the next emperor and they must also atone (as a paladin would when he has
committed a sin) for each person of Anuirean decent that they have killed.
>
I was following it up until that point. In BR, they shouldn't really
consider everyone a potential emperor, though that might work in some other
setting... Anyway, they need to look for a qualified blooded individual,
don't they? So, they may respect the lives of all Anuireans as the ones
they are trying to serve by finding a new emperor, but if they justly had
to kill one, they probably wouln't feel too terrible. Now, penance for a
blooded victim, this sounds good.


> Since their is
> no emperor at the moment but they still see themselves as servants of the
empire they will only take orders from the Chamberlain or another high
official of the empire.
>
That sounds good, it gives the Chamberlain (since there aren't really any
other officials of the empire left) some people who actually _do_ listen to
him. If they don't like the way some noble is acting, they let him know
that he will _never_ be emperor unless he changes his ways.

> It is not known why, since they are all fighters not priests, but
since after the battle every member of the order have been able to cast
clerical spells from the same sphere's as Haely Paladins
Don't like it. They are more noble if it's just a self-sacrificing,
borderline-obsession of theirs, they shouldn't get special benefits for
performing their self-imposed duty. Now, a cleric of Haelyn and a paladin
or two may be found in their ranks, giving rise to these rumors of spell
ability, but the majority of them are simply devoted warriors.

> It should also be noted that it is very hard to become a member (it u!
> sually takes some sort of heroic action to get a member to support ones
"application" (i.e. the person have earned a few levels as a fighter) and
if one isn't a member of the imperial guard it is almost impossible."
>
What imperial guard? I didn't think one existed any more. And if there
was, it doesn't seem like they would do much anymore, either. Maybe the
KotIT are like questing knights, they travel around Anuire and occasionally
take on a squire, who they present to the other knights at their Knight's
Gathering (TM) every decade or so. They could also have some special
ceeremony they perform at that time, in the Imperial City, say a "Changing
of the Guard" at the tomb of Michael Roele. Does he even have a tomb? I
don't know if his body was recovered.

> So what do you all say. Did I come up with a totally ridiculous idea
or is it something that can be of some use?
>
I have got to find something to do with these guys. I like them! Of
course, knight orders have always been kind of a favorite of mine.
Daniel McSorley
mcsorley.1@osu.edu

[simong@mech.uwa.edu.au]

> I was following it up until that point. In BR, they shouldn't really
>consider everyone a potential emperor, though that might work in some other
>setting... Anyway, they need to look for a qualified blooded individual,
>don't they? So, they may respect the lives of all Anuireans as the ones
>they are trying to serve by finding a new emperor, but if they justly had
>to kill one, they probably wouln't feel too terrible. Now, penance for a
>blooded victim, this sounds good.

This sounds really good. I guess one of the penalties that would go along
with this is that the act of bloodtheft would be blasphemy to them (robbing
a potential emperor). So the knights would not be allowed to rob another of
their 'ties to the land'.

>
>
>> Since their is
>> no emperor at the moment but they still see themselves as servants of the
>empire they will only take orders from the Chamberlain or another high
>official of the empire.
>>
> That sounds good, it gives the Chamberlain (since there aren't
>really any
>other officials of the empire left) some people who actually _do_ listen to
>him. If they don't like the way some noble is acting, they let him know
>that he will _never_ be emperor unless he changes his ways.

yes, a very small force, not really powerful physically, but the power they
weild would be to throw a regent out of favour with the Chamberlain,
effectively destroying that regents chances at the iron throne. Most
regents would treat the knights as very honoured guests, and I wager that
the knight could get food and lodgings in almost every single domain in
Anuire. This could be one of their 'special abilities' - most regents tend
to suck up to them in a major way.



> Don't like it. They are more noble if it's just a self-sacrificing,
>borderline-obsession of theirs, they shouldn't get special benefits for
>performing their self-imposed duty. Now, a cleric of Haelyn and a paladin
>or two may be found in their ranks, giving rise to these rumors of spell
>ability, but the majority of them are simply devoted warriors.

yes, I agree with this. No spell casting. However, they could well be
rumoured to be much more powerful than they actually are. Being a spell
caster, or being seen as the chosen of one of the gods, would make regents
suck up to the knights even more. I doubt they would be kee to dispel this
myth.

> What imperial guard? I didn't think one existed any more. And if
>there
>was, it doesn't seem like they would do much anymore, either. Maybe the
>KotIT are like questing knights, they travel around Anuire and occasionally
>take on a squire, who they present to the other knights at their Knight's
>Gathering (TM) every decade or so. They could also have some special
>ceeremony they perform at that time, in the Imperial City, say a "Changing
>of the Guard" at the tomb of Michael Roele. Does he even have a tomb? I
>don't know if his body was recovered.

I like this idea. A good point about Michael Roele - I have no idea if Mike
has a tomb? Anyone else know, or i this mentioned in any of the other
books?

>> So what do you all say. Did I come up with a totally ridiculous idea
>or is it something that can be of some use?

I like the concept. They may need to be tweaked a bit, though. I would
introduce their special abilities more along the lines of what the kits do
- - nothing really major, more socially oriented. I would say they would be
welcomed with open arms by almost every regent in the land, and would have
some influence on decisions ("My lord, if you were to build housing and
roads for the poor peasants who live in squalor in your northern provinces,
I am sure that this action would not go un-noticed by the Chamberlain.").
In addition, they would have much better access to regents than a normal
commoner ("What? A Knight of the Iron Throne! And you leave him standing
outside? Get him a nice bath, some warm clothing and a hearty meal. Tell
him I will shall see him as soon as he is refreshed."). On the other hand,
the penalties would be not being able to kill blooded individuals, and
never being able to use the act of bloodtheft. In fact, some of these
Knights may even quest to destroy those who slay blooded individuals. They
would have good reason to do so, anyway. Maybe they would have some ability
to 'sense' those who are blooded? I am sure there is a blood ability which
does this, but I can't think of it off the top of my head. They could be
required to have this ability in order to join, which would be a good
reason why their numbers are so small. Only very special and dedicated
individuals need to apply.

Well, there's my thoughts on what I consider a great idea. I hope to
eventually see the finished product up on the OCP homepage.

Simon

Simon Graindorge
Coordinator, Birthright Online City Project

E-mail: slg@nw.com.au
Online City Project Homepage:
http://darkstar.cyberserv.com/netbook/city/index.html

[Daniel McSorley]

>>They could also have some special
>>ceremony they perform at that time, in the Imperial City, say a "Changing
>>of the Guard" at the tomb of Michael Roele. Does he even have a tomb? I
>>don't know if his body was recovered.
>
>I like this idea. A good point about Michael Roele - I have no idea if Mike
>has a tomb? Anyone else know, or i this mentioned in any of the other
>books?
>
I checked out _The Iron Throne_, the only thing it has to say is that he
was chopped in half by the Gorgon, then Aeden Dosiere was whisked away by
the elves and couldn't really say what happened. It did say that, with the
elves' help, the Anuirean troops were pushing back the Gorgon's, so I'd say
they could have recovered the body, once it was identified (which ought to
be pretty easy). I don't recall any references to a tomb in any books
though. So, looks like we get to make it up!
Daniel McSorley
mcsorley.1@osu.edu
ICQ:5299865
AIM:DanMcS

[Anthony K.G.Shewan]

> Date: Saturday, March 28, 1998 7:31 PM
>
> Hello everyone
> I got an idea a few days ago about trying to transfer the Pious Knight
from the Legends and Lore 2ed book to Birthright (for those of you who do
not have a copy of it go to http://www.tsr.com/adndcore/oop.html there you
can find an RTF version of it) and this is what I came up with. This is
only the first "version" of my thoughts and now I would like your comments
on it so that it might become better.
>
> "Knights of the IronThrone.

> So what do you all say. Did I come up with a totally ridiculous idea
or is it something that can be of some use?
>
> Fredrik Lundberg
>
An excellent concept. IMO It does require a few adjustments however.
Priestly magic: No way. Leave it to Priests & Paladins
Anuirean decent: while they shouldn't go around killing "willy nilly", they
must be able to *defend* themselves against all comers. At the very least I
agree with previous responses concerning not killing "blooded" Anuireans.
Lastly, this is a semi-secret order. Who knows about them? What level of
the Gentry is aware of them? The Chamberlain and who else? Previous posts
are indicating they should have a high social standing. I disagree. If this
is a secret order only a *select few* should know about KotIT. Now there is
a punishable offence, revealing that the order exists without permission
(2/3 vote)

[Drake90094]

>can anyone help me? drake90094@aol.com

[veryfastperson@juno.com]

On Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:39:43 -0800 jonathan.w.ingram@exgate.tek.com
writes:
>Why should this be a secret order? If anything, these folks should be
>help
>up by the Chamberlain as the ideal Anuirean knight and should have
>extremely
>high social standing. Perhaps the leaders of the order and various
>rites,
>including initiation and candidate selection, would be a secret, but
>the
>existence of the order itself and its members would be widely known
>among
>the nobility.

hmm, one problem i see with revealing themselves to the nobility around
Anuire, is the possibilty of assassingation, bribery, etc.
any regent who knows that they are looking for the emperor would
want to get on their best side, and if they couldn't do that, then a
course of eliminating them might start to occur. (the ends, justify the
means... :-)

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[Gabriel Eggers]

- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Daniel McSorley"
To:
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Re: Knights of the Iron Throne
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 22:50:04 -0500
Reply-To: birthright@MPGN.COM

>>They could also have some special
>>ceremony they perform at that time, in the Imperial City, say a
"Changing
>>of the Guard" at the tomb of Michael Roele. Does he even have a tomb?
I
>>don't know if his body was recovered.
>
>I like this idea. A good point about Michael Roele - I have no idea if
Mike
>has a tomb? Anyone else know, or i this mentioned in any of the other
>books?
>
I checked out _The Iron Throne_, the only thing it has to say is
that he
was chopped in half by the Gorgon, then Aeden Dosiere was whisked away
by
the elves and couldn't really say what happened. It did say that, with
the
elves' help, the Anuirean troops were pushing back the Gorgon's, so I'd
say
they could have recovered the body, once it was identified (which ought
to
be pretty easy). I don't recall any references to a tomb in any books
though. So, looks like we get to make it up!
Daniel McSorley
mcsorley.1@osu.edu
ICQ:5299865
AIM:DanMcS

Even if they didn't recover his body that hardly matters, I am sure they
built a great monument to him anyway.To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
line

- -Sandsinger, "Wandering minstrels don't last long in the
desert, unless they're really tough"
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[Taras Guarhoth]

- ---Erik M Samhammer wrote:
>
> hmm, one problem i see with revealing themselves to the nobility
around
> Anuire, is the possibilty of assassingation, bribery, etc.
> any regent who knows that they are looking for the emperor would
> want to get on their best side, and if they couldn't do that, then a
> course of eliminating them might start to occur. (the ends, justify
the
> means... :-)

Ah, yes, but while one regeant is crusading against the knights, many
others will side against the regeant, in an attempt to get into the
knight's good graces. Thus, few regeants would dare to kill of the
knights.

Of course, the knights may just keep their opinions to themselves, not
telling the nobles of the land who they consider worthy.
==
Taras Guarhoth guarhoth@yahoo.com

Council of Greyhawk Homepage: http://www.empnet.com/cog/

Library of Taras Guarhoth
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Labyrinth/9274/index.html

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[rad smith]

On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Drake90094 wrote:

> >can anyone help me? drake90094@aol.com

who is this bloke?

time to update my .procmailrc
/dev/null/ i hear your siren call...


- --
rad

uneasy listening music

[Anthony K.G.Shewan]

- ----------
> From: jonathan.w.ingram@exgate.tek.com
> To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> Subject: RE: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Knights of the Iron Throne
> Date: Monday, March 30, 1998 1:39 PM
>
> Why should this be a secret order?
>

I don't know why. Fredrik Lundberg came up with a great original idea.
Originally the idea was they were a semi-secret order. If the whole upper
class knows about them and they receive special treatment (i.e. high social
standing) because of this knowledge then it isn't really a secret is it. It
is up to the powers that be (i.e. Fredrik and/or the OCP Committees) to
decide if the order is secret, semi-secret or general knowledge. It is not
up to me. My point is, if it's a secret keep it a secret. Otherwise let the
sycophantic toadying of the Anuirean Regents begin (and that could be fun
to) as they kiss up to the KotIT for special considerations.
IMO, either one works, but not both together.

Regards
Anthony K.G. Shewan
abcdshewan@coastnet.com

[Kyle Foster]

The level of secrecey here is a good point. Take for instance the
Knights Templar. They wer known but everyone considered them to be a
mysterious ordr becasue they didn't let outsiders in on what they were
doing. What theier goals were and the like. A semi secret order would
also probably work a little smoother as far as game intergration goes.
The truley secretive orders are always much harder to get into the game
or to drop subtle enough clues that the players know there's something
out there.
Oh and for and A D&D example there's the Zhenteriam over in FR. Lots
of people know they are out there but few know thier goals. or a better
example would be the Harpers also from FR. People might know they exsist
or not but all most no one knows what their really up to.

Kyle
- --
"I drank WHAT?"- Socrates

[KirbyRanma]

Hello all, player here,

I like this idea, but also the secrecy aspect. I watched the History
Channel's "Greek Gods" special Monday night, and there were actually cults/
secret societies to different dieties. One in case (name began with an I or
an E) was a society that publiclly announced that anyone whose hands were
unpolluted (i.e. you didn't kill anybody or bad stuff like that) could join;
however what they did was so secret that two boys who were caught watching the
"hidden" ceremony were executed for doing so.

As for something a little more secret, in the Ravenloft campaign setting,
there is a group called the Kargat (based in a city called Karg, but operate
everywhere) whose name is mentioned in whispers. If anyone asks to join, they
torture the person to find out who leaked the information. You don't ask to
join, they ask you, and if you refuse, they kill you. Now this isn't exactly
a knightly secret society, but just to give you an example of what another one
is.

Take care all,
KirbyRanma