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James Ruhland
03-26-1998, 06:28 PM
Ok, so I broke down & bought a FR module, Hellgate Keep (which is pretty
good, and has some nice, interesting bad guys in it, and is written in a
way that allows the DM to use it flexably; there, I said something nice
about a recient FR product.)
The other thing that struck me though was just how many powerful magic
items were scattered throghought the module. Fine for FR, but obviously not
BR.
Which is where my Q. is: how do people handle planar travel &
spelljamming? I know the later came up reciently, and my own opinion was,
and remains "no way, no how!" But several of the modules (notably Sword and
Crown) contain creatures from other planes, so obviously planar travel is
possible.
Ok, so if planar travel is possible (if uncommon), how do people handle
that (if it's come up in your campaings)? I mean, *poof*, your characters
use a Cubic Gate or an Amulet of the Planes or something, travel to Sigil,
and then what? They suddenly have access to high magic environments (the
planes don't tend to be lacking in goods, and there are many, many ways to
get to the FR via the planes, for example). If your characters come back to
Cerilia loaded down with swag from elsewhere, then what? Ok, long rambling
screed again. But how have people handled this, or is it just a Q. no one
has dealt with yet?

Trizt
03-26-1998, 07:26 PM
On 26-Mar-98, James Ruhland (jruhlconob@sprynet.com) wrote about Re:
[BIRTHRIGHT] - Low Magic World and Travelling.:

- ->Ok, so I broke down & bought a FR module, Hellgate Keep (which is pretty
- ->good, and has some nice, interesting bad guys in it, and is written in a
- ->way that allows the DM to use it flexably; there, I said something nice
- ->about a recient FR product.)
That is uncommon, a good FR product.

- ->Which is where my Q. is: how do people handle planar travel &
- ->spelljamming?
I don't use spelljamming at all, it's far to way off from my opinion of a
fantasy world (I would class that as SF). Plane travel has been quite unusual
in my campaigns, even when we have played FR or any of my selfmade worlds and
the PC's has had means to use magics which has allowed planar travel.
The only time I used this was when a player of mine did soloplay with his
favorite mage who happened to be recruted by one ofmy old PC's (which was
quite highe leveled). I did all the time do rolls to see if there would
happnened somekind of random event when using magic, this may have lessesend
the thought of exploring the outer planes.

- -> contain creatures from other planes, so obviously planar travel is
- ->possible.
As we have used "Ruins of undermoutain I&II" and "Myth Drannor", both for FR,
there has been many "outerplanar" encounters. At the moment I have been a bit
working to get Undermountain as an part of BR, mostly as the dungeon under
Adlersburg keep.

- ->Ok, so if planar travel is possible (if uncommon), how do people handle
- ->that (if it's come up in your campaings)? I mean, *poof*, your characters
- ->use a Cubic Gate or an Amulet of the Planes or something, travel to Sigil,
- ->and then what?
I avoid giving such items.

- ->If your characters come back to
- ->Cerilia loaded down with swag from elsewhere, then what? Ok, long rambling
- ->screed again.
You can always rule that the "land" does drain items of their magic as long as
they aren't native to Cerilia, in this way you can always give them a load of
magical items while the characters are plane traveling/spelljamming and within
some month has lost all those items when returning to Cerilia. This may do
that the Pc's hides there items outside Cerilia, but then a thife can steal
those items while they are gone.

Thats what I would do....


//Trizt of Ward^RITE

--------------------
E-Mail: trizt@iname.com URL: http://www.ukko.dyn.ml.org/~trizt/
Nick : Trizt IRC: irc.kuai.se:5278 Channel: #Opers
MUD: callandor.imaginary.com 5317
--------------------

patera
03-26-1998, 07:29 PM
My tendency would be to render 90% of all other planar magical items inert
while on Cerilia. The character would keep some items of your choice...

- ----------
> From: James Ruhland
> To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Low Magic World and Travelling.
> Date: Thursday, March 26, 1998 10:28 AM
>
>
> Ok, so I broke down & bought a FR module, Hellgate Keep (which is pretty
> good, and has some nice, interesting bad guys in it, and is written in a
> way that allows the DM to use it flexably; there, I said something nice
> about a recient FR product.)
> The other thing that struck me though was just how many powerful magic
> items were scattered throghought the module. Fine for FR, but obviously
not
> BR.
> Which is where my Q. is: how do people handle planar travel &
> spelljamming? I know the later came up reciently, and my own opinion was,
> and remains "no way, no how!" But several of the modules (notably Sword
and
> Crown) contain creatures from other planes, so obviously planar travel is
> possible.
> Ok, so if planar travel is possible (if uncommon), how do people handle
> that (if it's come up in your campaings)? I mean, *poof*, your characters
> use a Cubic Gate or an Amulet of the Planes or something, travel to
Sigil,
> and then what? They suddenly have access to high magic environments (the
> planes don't tend to be lacking in goods, and there are many, many ways
to
> get to the FR via the planes, for example). If your characters come back
to
> Cerilia loaded down with swag from elsewhere, then what? Ok, long
rambling
> screed again. But how have people handled this, or is it just a Q. no one
> has dealt with yet?
>
>> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
line
> 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

DKEvermore
03-26-1998, 07:36 PM
In a message dated 98-03-26 13:55:33 EST, you write:

> Which is where my Q. is: how do people handle planar travel &
> spelljamming? I know the later came up reciently, and my own opinion was,
> and remains "no way, no how!" But several of the modules (notably Sword and
> Crown) contain creatures from other planes, so obviously planar travel is
> possible.
>

I have come to a conclusion that I feel comfortable with in my campaign. I
think of the world of Aebrynis as a sphere apart from all other AD&D worlds
and no direct travel can take place. However, should a Spelljamming ship
arrive at the place where Aebrynis should be, they would indeed find a
world--the Shadow World. You might think of it as kind of a buffer between
Birthright and the rest of the cosms. I do still allow certain planes direct
access (such as the elemental planes) to allow for summoning.

However, in handling a guest DM taking the heros in my current campaign on an
journey to Ravenloft, I first had the PCs travel through a rift into the
Shadow World. From there, I allowed the usual Ravenloft "abduction".

Anyway, I'm certain many others might tell you they have also used the Shadow
World as a buffer. The main thing is to develop your own reasoning for your
campaign and don't allow other materials, even if they're published by TSR,
upset your game.

- -DKE

LordSchmit
03-26-1998, 07:51 PM
> Which is where my Q. is: how do people handle planar travel &
> spelljamming?

I always figured Aebrynis lay within a closed crystal sphere, and was thus
inaccessable to spelljammers.

Dom
03-26-1998, 08:27 PM
At 12:28 26/03/98 -0600, "James Ruhland" wrote:




. If your characters come back to
>Cerilia loaded down with swag from elsewhere, then what? Ok, long rambling
>screed again. But how have people handled this, or is it just a Q. no one
>has dealt with yet?
>


You could have that setting the buttons on a cubic gate to return to
Cerillia in addition does a Mordenkainen's Disjunction on all items
excluding itself and activates a curse that teleports all other magic
items not of Cerillia to a random location.





Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com or mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

James Ruhland
03-26-1998, 08:28 PM
A variant of the below might be the best way to handle it (being somewhat
conservative, I'd hate to drain items of magic.); anything found on other
planes & planets (through plane travel; I, too, am less-than-fond of the
idea of Spelljamming, at least on Cerilia; just the idea of flying ships
being available to a Regent. *shudder*). Where was I? Oh, ya: anything
found on other planes/game worlds is rendered (temporarily) inert when they
are taken to Cerilia: that nice Staff of the Magi found in Undermountain
(or wherever) doesn't "jive" with the Mieghviehl (sp.) of Cerilia, and thus
is just a staff (non-magical) on Aerbrynnis. But should your players ever
return to wherever, it will work ok again.
I suppose the same could hold true for spells found elsewhere: until the
mages (or priests) reasurch a Cerilian-version of whatever fancy new spell
they found on a scroll or in a spellbook in the Grey Wastes (or wherever),
it fizzles when cast (because the formula in the spellbook was reasurched
to work under the magical rules of a different world, not a world where
meighviel (sp. again) powers magic.)
>
> Trizt wrote:
>
> You can always rule that the "land" does drain items of their magic as
long as
> they aren't native to Cerilia, in this way you can always give them a
load of
> magical items while the characters are plane traveling/spelljamming and
within
> some month has lost all those items when returning to Cerilia. This may
do
> that the Pc's hides there items outside Cerilia, but then a thife can
steal
> those items while they are gone.
>

Mark A Vandermeulen
03-26-1998, 08:39 PM
On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, James Ruhland wrote:

> Which is where my Q. is: how do people handle planar travel &
> spelljamming? I know the later came up reciently, and my own opinion was,
> and remains "no way, no how!" But several of the modules (notably Sword and
> Crown) contain creatures from other planes, so obviously planar travel is
> possible.

My own personal favorite theory on spelljamming is that the area Cerillia
is located in appears to spelljammers like a large, dense nebula, which is
noted on star charts as a very dangerous place to traverse. And it is: the
"nebula" is the shadow world, and obeys a very different--and constantly
changing--set of rules from the space around it. Cheif of which is that
any wizards who enter it suddenly find that they cannot cast any of their
non-illusion/divination spells (as they're bodies are incappable of
"sucking in" the right "sized" meghveil particles to cast such magic). The
same thing would happen to magic items that use such effects: the
Cerillian "magical particles" are the wrong size to allow them to
function, and they become intert while on Cerilia. In order to make it to
Cerilia, any spelljammers must navigate through the shadow world and find
or make a portal to the material world, while dealing with shadow
monsters.
This alone should keep most people from treating Cerilia as a popular
vacation spot.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

Eric Mukogawa
03-26-1998, 10:02 PM
My original decision on the matter was to put my Birthright game totally
separate from the others. Then, as you pointed out the modules, books, the
Planewalker book, and a few others made Birthright part of the total TSR
megaverse. For awhile I decided that I'd just ignore all that and keep it
as a totally separate place and created little dark-planes like the shadow
world. I recently re-started the campaign, and decided to add all of the
rest of the universes including my own custom worlds, into the game. I did
this because if/when the empire is reforged (which is the general goal of
the players) then I can bring in threats from other continents, other
worlds, other planes, whatever I like. :)

The big question would be 'How can the non-blooded be mages'... my answer
was that even in Cerilia the Non-blooded could be mages, just the blooded
have kept them down and never allowed them to realise this. I'm sure the
PCs will be mucho-pissed when the find out that the non-bloodeds are being
treated unfairly... either way non-blooded could never cast realm spells,
but hey... limited to illusion and divination really bites. hehehe
- -----Original Message-----
From: James Ruhland
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Date: Thursday, March 26, 1998 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Low Magic World and Travelling.


>
> Ok, so I broke down & bought a FR module, Hellgate Keep (which is pretty
>good, and has some nice, interesting bad guys in it, and is written in a
>way that allows the DM to use it flexably; there, I said something nice
>about a recient FR product.)
> The other thing that struck me though was just how many powerful magic
>items were scattered throghought the module. Fine for FR, but obviously not
>BR.
> Which is where my Q. is: how do people handle planar travel &
>spelljamming? I know the later came up reciently, and my own opinion was,
>and remains "no way, no how!" But several of the modules (notably Sword and
>Crown) contain creatures from other planes, so obviously planar travel is
>possible.
> Ok, so if planar travel is possible (if uncommon), how do people handle
>that (if it's come up in your campaings)? I mean, *poof*, your characters
>use a Cubic Gate or an Amulet of the Planes or something, travel to Sigil,
>and then what? They suddenly have access to high magic environments (the
>planes don't tend to be lacking in goods, and there are many, many ways to
>get to the FR via the planes, for example). If your characters come back to
>Cerilia loaded down with swag from elsewhere, then what? Ok, long rambling
>screed again. But how have people handled this, or is it just a Q. no one
>has dealt with yet?
>
>************************************************** *************************
>>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

Eric Mukogawa
03-26-1998, 10:05 PM
Since the pholgistan is a really hard place to just go out and explore. I
just put it way off the beat and track no where near any other spheres. A
person would almost HAVE to know how to get to it in order to find it before
running out of air.
- -----Original Message-----
From: LordSchmit
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Date: Thursday, March 26, 1998 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Low Magic World and Travelling.


>> Which is where my Q. is: how do people handle planar travel &
>> spelljamming?
>
>I always figured Aebrynis lay within a closed crystal sphere, and was thus
>inaccessable to spelljammers.
>************************************************** *************************
>>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

Trizt
03-26-1998, 10:20 PM
On 26-Mar-98, James Ruhland (jruhlconob@sprynet.com) wrote about Re:
[BIRTHRIGHT] - Low Magic World and Travelling.:
- ->A variant of the below might be the best way to handle it (being somewhat
- ->conservative, I'd hate to drain items of magic.); anything found on other
- ->planes & planets. Where was I? Oh, ya: anything
- ->found on other planes/game worlds is rendered (temporarily) inert when they
- ->are taken to Cerilia:
I have to admit that is a good idea, but to defend my own original thoughts,
to let none Cerilian itmes be drain could be the explanation why not there is
a limited amount of "bloodpoints" in Cerilia (e.g. if a character gets 20 new
BP, then no one else looses 20 BP). Maybe a combination of both could be a
better solution. Low leveled magicval items are drained to none magical items
while "highelevel" items are rduced to some form of "lowlevel" items as long
as they are in Cerilia. But I guess thats upto all those Dm's who let their
players to make planar adventures.

//Trizt of Ward^RITE

-----------------
E-Mail: trizt@iname.com URL: http://www.ukko.dyn.ml.org/~trizt/
Nick : Trizt IRC: irc.kuai.se:5278 Channel: #Opers
MUD: callandor.imaginary.com 5317
-----------------

KirbyRanma
03-27-1998, 12:33 AM
Hello all,

I believe I have here a quick [and cheasy] way of ignoring Spelljammers
and Planescape people. I'm writing this because it seems a lot of DMs don't
want them in their game, which I, as a player, don't want Spelljammers either
(that's what magic carpets are for!). I agree that the "Shadow World"
surrounds Cerilia. It's one of those things where Cerilia & the Shadow World
occupy the same space in two different dimensions, you just have to go through
the Shadow World first. Now, say Spelljammers happens to make it to this area
they've been warned about, they find a way to pierce and go inside the Shadow
World. Well, they crash land before they know it, ships down. Bunches of
evil animals come and start tearing away at the ship. No escape back home.
Now the Cold Rider {shiver} or perhaps some other evil beings come out to kill
them or enslave them. Should any or all escape from the encounter (after all,
they'll probably have some killer magic stuff), you can just say that they,
along with a few evil beings, are thrown into Ravenloft. Now let's see them
get into Cerilia! After all, the Shadow World is evil enough for Ravenloft to
come pick and choose, right? What more maddening aspect than, to lose your
ship, be chased by hordes of undead only to escape into a more horrible place.
Hey, they were warned. This could be used for Planescape, saying if they had
a "Amulet of the Planes" and they chose the Birthright world, they'd have to
go through the Shadow World first. That way, only the big nasty demons &
things from other planes would have the know-how of bypassing the Shadow
World, all at the DMs whims.

There you have it ladies and gentleman, a quick [and cheasy] way to not
allow people in that you don't want around.

Take care and hope you had a good laugh,
KirbyRanma

darkstar
03-27-1998, 01:00 AM
LordSchmit wrote:
>
> > Which is where my Q. is: how do people handle planar travel &
> > spelljamming?
>
> I always figured Aebrynis lay within a closed crystal sphere, and was thus
> inaccessable to spelljammers.

Well I have never liked the idea of closed Crystal Spheres. Lost and
hidden spheres ok, but why do they all need to be closed.
Anyway my idea on this is that as a spelljammer enters Aebrynis's space
magic is altered and no mage can cast higher than 2nd level spells. Then
as the vessel approachs Aebrynis itself which is the source of all this
then the planet alters the powerful magic that makes up the spelljamming
helm and other non-Aebrynis magical items, draining them as others
replying to this thread have suggested. So the vessel is either forced
to turn away or lose all power, being pulled into the planets orbit and
eventually crashing. The effect is not as dangerous as a Sargasso, but
similar.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://darkstar.cyberserv.com
ICQ: 2938300

Drake90094
03-27-1998, 02:16 AM
does anyone here have a BIRTHRIGHT campaign setting for disk or downloadable?

Kyle Foster
03-27-1998, 10:08 AM
I like the tought of the Shadow World actin as a buffer over the
BirthRight universe. I had personally envisioned it as an egg. The
shadow world surrounding the crystal shpere and preventing spell jamming
intrusions. As for Planer travel (I know nothing of Planescape so I
could be wrong) I'm sure that there are some places you can only get to
by going through another place, thus the shadow world could once again
act as a buffer to the outside influence.

That's my thoughts on this.

Kyle
- --
"I drank WHAT?"- Socrates

Memnoch
03-27-1998, 07:12 PM
Actually, I don't like the idea of closed crystal spheres at all. I,
personally believe that it detracts from the possibilities of a campaign.

Here is how I generally handle it:

Crystal Spheres:

Before the time of Mt. Deismaar, the crystal sphere of Aebrynis was just
like any other. And accessible to anyone with the ability. After the
explosion and sacrifice of the gods, the laws of magic changed, and thus, so
did access to Aebrynispace. Since that time, no cast magic used by the
unblooded (of any kind, external or internal, including the Arcane) or
magical items used by the non-blooded has been able to breech the crystal
sphere from the inside or outside. However, magical spells and magical
items used by Blooded individuals is able to breech the sphere as described
in the Spelljammer rules.

Now, since it has been 1500 years since the destruction of the gods at
Deismaar and for some unknown reason, the crystal sphere has not been able
to be visited from the outside (unless a blooded individual started from the
inside, went out and then went back in again) it has been assumed
(incorrectly) that it is a "closed" crystal sphere and it has pretty much
fallen off of the major star charts of the various spacefaring nations that
inhabit the prime material plane and thus has become, over the years,
"lost". It would take a lot of research or inside knowledge (i.e. being
from Aebrynispace in the first place) to know that Cerilia and her sister
planets even exist). And thus, it has severely limited the access to
Aebrynispace to a great extent, but does not 1) completely close it off and
2) does not break any of the existing rules (i.e. having the shadow world
close off the sphere, due to extra-dimensional and extra-planar access being
cut off in the phlogiston) of the prime material plane. While allowing the
Spelljammer rules to exist in concert with those of Birthright. Although
the use of spelljamming in Aebrynispace would be extremely primitive due to
this factor (no outside influence and having to "go at it alone"). The vast
majority of spelljamming knowledge and technology (for want of a better
word) would be lost due to the lack of incoming technology to replace what
was lost in battles and wars. Kinda like Entropy running amok in a closed
system. Eventually, there wouldn't be much left for others to pick up.


Extra Planar Travel:

This works similarly, except for the restrictions on magic and magical
items. Anyone with the means can plane travel to Aebrynispace as they wish.
However, Wizards from other crystal spheres will more than likely not be
able to get back by using magical spells as their schools of access in
Aebrynispace is severly restricted, unless they are elves or half-elves.
They would still have the knowledge of the spells above 2nd level in the
schools outside of illusion and divination, but when the cast them, they
would not work, as the laws of magic are different here. When it comes to
magical items, The Weave (in FR) and Mebhaighl in Cerilia are essentially
one and the same. There is no appreciable difference between them except
for the effect on the non-blooded. My advice for those DM's not wanting
Cerilia to be "corrupted" by outside influences is this: "DO NOT GIVE THE
PLAYERS ANYTHING YOU DO NOT EXPECT AND WANT THEM TO USE." Hard and fast
rule there. You cannot realistically expect players to submit to DM whimsy
and get screwed over and have their hard fought magical items "drained
inexplicably" due to curiosity and ambition on the part of their characters.
That is a completely arbitrary decision and has absolutely no basis in the
rules (and as a player I would demand a rules reference, other than the
"What the DM says goes" crap that seems to be the consensus here). As DM's
it is up to you to distribute the magical items, gold etc and it is up to
you to determine what is good and what is bad. If you make a mistake, you
should live with it. The players are there to have fun and advance the
causes of their characters, not your idea of "game balance." I'll say it
again... If you don't want or expect them to use it, don't enter it into
your game."
This is the only realistic and fair way to limit access to Cerilia by
"outside" characters with "gobs of magical items." Don't give them gobs of
magical items in the first place, otherwise, you will have to live with the
consequences.

I apologize for the rant, but one of my worst pet peeves is arbitrary
rulings that have no basis being made by DM's just to limit players from
doing something. Just ask Silveras. We have had many a discussion on just
this topic. :)

An interesting side note is what would happen if an elf or half-elf priest
of the Seldarine would come to Cerilia and attempt to establish the worship
of his gods into the Current elven nations. Now, that would be an
interesting scenario resulting from planar or spelljamming travel to
Cerilia.

>LordSchmit wrote:
>>
>> > Which is where my Q. is: how do people handle planar travel &
>> > spelljamming?
>>