[BIRTHRIGHT] -bloodlines

[ANOLESEN]

Are there any new catagories to get new blood abilities over the 80+ catagory?

[Gary V. Foss]

ANOLESEN wrote:

> Are there any new catagories to get new blood abilities over the 80+ catagory?

Not that I've ever heard of....

I think there should be a cap on the maximum bloodline strength that a character
can get. I'd set it at 100pts, personally. The Gorgon is listed as having a 100+
bloodline, but he's been around committing acts of bloodtheft for centuries. It's
debatable how much godly energy a mortal might contain. Perhaps, points of
bloodstrength after 100 could be translated into ability score points, hit points,
extended blood abilities or something.

What do you folks think?

- -G.

[KirbyRanma]

GeeMan wrote:

"I think there should be a cap on the maximum bloodline strength that a
character
can get. I'd set it at 100pts, personally. The Gorgon is listed as having a
100+
bloodline, but he's been around committing acts of bloodtheft for centuries.
It's
debatable how much godly energy a mortal might contain. Perhaps, points of
bloodstrength after 100 could be translated into ability score points, hit
points,
extended blood abilities or something.

What do you folks think?"

First, this is my first e-mail and response to the list, so please bear
with me. I think it would be very unlikely for someone to get 100+ bloodline
points anytime soon in their campaign, but if someone did go over what was set
on the 80+ scale, the "Ability Gained" list could be started over, for
example, you could go from 80-90 (because of 0-10) then 91-99 (11-19) followed
by 100-108 (20-28), etc, or just use the last chart of 51-80 to go from
81-110, 111-140, etc. However, since the chart lists 7 possibilites, and
bloodlines will have more (such as Anduiras having 13 or 14), the DM could say
"you must take this one" without rolling, or could force a minor to major or
major to great. Also, for those blood abilities that have variables (such as
Heightened Ability), the DM could allow those to be maxed out.
As a player in the Birthright campaign, I would also like to say that,
from my perspective, any non-awnsheghlien is probably going to be "hunted" by
any evil blooded characters, and a good aligned character should have a darn
good reason why he or she has so much (i.e. he shouldn't have gone hunting
evil people and waited for them to attempt to commit a crime). Hope this
helps.

Take care,
KirbyRanma

[Kyle Foster]

I agree that it is unlikley that any Pc would gain that many blood
points over the course of a game. I should mention that I am talking
about non evil people here, who I would not see going around committing
casual acts of bloodtheft. I think a cap would be the simpilest and
probably most balanced solution if it should ever arise.

I find the concept of how much divine power a mortal could contain to
be very intrigueing. It begs the question at what point to you stop
being mortal and become something more (or less) then mortal? The Gorgon
could be seen as being at or near demi-god status do to the vast power
he can command.

On a related topic when does a good allinged character pus things to
far when fighting another blooded character. Is the act of making a
called shot to the heart an evil act? Does it depend on the allingment
of the other combatant? I have found the morality of this to be a
little grey when dealing with my players most notablely paladins. I'd
be insterested in other points of view and how players and gm's would
call this.

Kyle

[Sythryc]

yea, by the time you hit 75 or 80 old Gorgon would come a hunting for ya,
don't forget he is a mighty veteran too so traps won't be easy to snag him
with

[Sythryc]

Paladins - if a Paladin fights then it is to kill not to intentionally maim
humiliate or embarass. a called shot to the head would be okay in my book
only if he was trying to knock him out and leave him to ponder his evil ways
or tie him up and bring him back to meet justice. if anything i would suggest
they attempt to strike at the heart of their opponent and not to commit
bloodtheft but to provide a swift merciful death. i believe that's what the
manticore did and look what happened to him i know but such is the price of
honor and respect.

[Gary V. Foss]

KirbyRanma wrote:

> First, this is my first e-mail and response to the list, so please bear
> with me.

Welcome!

> I think it would be very unlikely for someone to get 100+ bloodline
> points anytime soon in their campaign, but if someone did go over what was set
> on the 80+ scale, the "Ability Gained" list could be started over, for
> example, you could go from 80-90 (because of 0-10) then 91-99 (11-19) followed
> by 100-108 (20-28), etc, or just use the last chart of 51-80 to go from
> 81-110, 111-140, etc. However, since the chart lists 7 possibilites, and
> bloodlines will have more (such as Anduiras having 13 or 14), the DM could say
> "you must take this one" without rolling, or could force a minor to major or
> major to great. Also, for those blood abilities that have variables (such as
> Heightened Ability), the DM could allow those to be maxed out.

That's an interesting way of handling it. I'd opt for a slower rate, though.
Table 12: Blood Ability Acquisition seems to be designed to correspond with Table
10: Bloodline Strength, so the gaps are sometimes small--particularly at the lower
end of the scale--to accomodate lower bloodline strength scores. 15 points seems
to be about the average gap. How does 20 points sound? A new ability at 100,
another at 120, etc.

It occurs to me that my initial post regarding putting a cap on bloodline strength
might not actually work out too well in the game. The Gorgon is an exception to
many rules, but it seems to me that even he has to have some reason to hunt
blooded individuals even if he has "maxed out" his bloodline strength. Some
reason besides general nastiness, that is. Otherwise, why would His Granite
Ghoulishness have such a hunger for bloodsilver weapons and the stealing of the
birthright of others? He must have some use for more bloodline strength.

If there is a cap on the bloodline strength, then why does the Gorgon want more?
Perhaps they hasten his growth and transformation (though that wouldn't explain
why the Spider is such a freak after the same amount of time) or maybe he uses
them to expand upon his powers, gaining more strength, intelligence, hit points,
whatever. How about this? Points after 100 become "super RPs" yielding 10 RPs
per point.

Perhaps a character with more than 100 bloodline pts becomes sort of a "forced"
erhshegh, every pt changing him/her more into the mystical creature that s/he will
eventually become....

> As a player in the Birthright campaign, I would also like to say that,
> from my perspective, any non-awnsheghlien is probably going to be "hunted" by
> any evil blooded characters, and a good aligned character should have a darn
> good reason why he or she has so much (i.e. he shouldn't have gone hunting
> evil people and waited for them to attempt to commit a crime). Hope this
> helps.

It IS pretty unlikely, making this something of an academic discussion... but it
is still an interesting line of reasoning. Sometimes interesting (and
occasionally practical) ideas spring up from batting these things around, so I'd
be interested in what everyone else has to say on the subject.

As for a character with that high a bloodline strength being hunted by evil
blooded characters and awnsheghlien I would agree that s/he would be. But a
character that powerful would be a pretty tough cookie. Probably Gorgon level
powerful. Not a lot of people go gunning for the Gorgon (though it is everyone's
dream) because they know they'll get whacked.

- -Gary

[Gary V. Foss]

Kyle Foster wrote:

> On a related topic when does a good allinged character pus things to
> far when fighting another blooded character. Is the act of making a
> called shot to the heart an evil act? Does it depend on the allingment
> of the other combatant? I have found the morality of this to be a
> little grey when dealing with my players most notablely paladins. I'd
> be insterested in other points of view and how players and gm's would
> call this.

For the most part, I think this depends entirely on the context of the fight. I
don't think making a called shot to the heart is an inheritly evil act. I think
a paladin (or any other good-aligned character, for that matter) would be fine
using a called shot if the fight itself were morally justified and the character
intended the fight to go to the death anyway.

"Morally justified" is a loaded phrase, of course. RPG morality and RL morality
are really two different things. Alignment is a game construct that only
sloppily mirrors RL ethics. Check out all the people in the Letters column of
Dragon magazine trying to justify slavery for good aligned characters if the
culture in which they live allows it. Personally, I'm about 95% pacifist, 5%
war-mongering savage, so stabbing ANYBODY in the heart sounds like a pretty bad
idea to me. A character of mine, however, can slaughter orogs by the cavernfull
and that's just jolly.

How's this for a test? If there was a movie version of the adventure, and the
audience saw the paladin stab someone through the heart and they think it was in
character for him/her, then it is probably cool.

- -Gary.

[Trizt]

ANOLESEN wrote:

>Are there any new catagories to get new blood abilities over the 80+ catagory?

No there is none. After 80BP you will not recive any new blood abilities
by only geting more BP. Here it has more to do with special conditions
and "gifts" from higher beings that yu would gain any extra blood
powers. Don't forget that it should take "ages" for a blooded person to
gain 80 or more bloodpoints. If it happens fast, then the DM has used
all to many blooded NPC's in their campaign.

Kyle Foster wrote:

> On a related topic when does a good allinged character pus things to
> far when fighting another blooded character. Is the act of making a
> called shot to the heart an evil act? Does it depend on the allingment
> of the other combatant? I have found the morality of this to be a
> little grey when dealing with my players most notablely paladins. I'd
> be insterested in other points of view and how players and gm's would
> call this.

I would say that for normal characters, the act should not be considered
as evil, atleast as long as the oppunent is of an none good alignment.
When it comes to the paladin, he/she have to think a few steps futher
as, who would get the bloodline after the foe is killed, would this new
person use it for the good or not and so on. If the paladin finds
out/knows that the hier is a good aligned character, then that call shot
would be an evil act (that justifies the great advantiges as paladins
has).


Gary V. Foss wrote:

>Personally, I'm about 95% pacifist, 5% war-mongering savage, so stabbing
>ANYBODY in the heart sounds like a pretty bad idea to me.

That is a easy statement to do, but when you would be in a similare
sitiuation your 5% would take you over. Don't forget that most of the
English, German, Serbian consentration guards where nice family fathers
who went to church every sunday and no one would thinkt that that guy
would do as horrible crimes as they did.


//Trizt

-

[Memnoch]

> First, this is my first e-mail and response to the list, so please
bear
>with me. I think it would be very unlikely for someone to get 100+
bloodline
>points anytime soon in their campaign, but if someone did go over what was
set
>on the 80+ scale, the "Ability Gained" list could be started over, for
>example, you could go from 80-90 (because of 0-10) then 91-99 (11-19)
followed
>by 100-108 (20-28), etc, or just use the last chart of 51-80 to go from
>81-110, 111-140, etc. However, since the chart lists 7 possibilites, and
>bloodlines will have more (such as Anduiras having 13 or 14), the DM could
say
>"you must take this one" without rolling, or could force a minor to major
or
>major to great. Also, for those blood abilities that have variables (such
as
>Heightened Ability), the DM could allow those to be maxed out.
> As a player in the Birthright campaign, I would also like to say that,
>from my perspective, any non-awnsheghlien is probably going to be "hunted"
by
>any evil blooded characters, and a good aligned character should have a
darn
>good reason why he or she has so much (i.e. he shouldn't have gone hunting
>evil people and waited for them to attempt to commit a crime). Hope this
>helps.
>
>Take care,
>KirbyRanma


I do happen to have a entire (20+ page) document that revamps the
entire blood abilities chapter in the rulebook that makes the rolling for
blood abilities a little easier and also does introduce some new (at least
they were at the time that I designed the document) blood abilities as well.
It also changes the bloodline derivation chart to take into account the
relative locations of the races in regards to the gods when they sacrificed
themselves at Deismaar. I have gotten a lot of good reviews for this, so
anyone that would like to have me mail it to you, just let me know. I have
it in 3 different document formats: .doc (word 97), .rtf (for everything
else) and .pdf ... Please e-mail me privately to have me send you a copy as
I do not want it put on the netbook just yet. It is complete as is, I have
yet to merge some of the blood abilities by Blastin (which, If I remember
correctly, he gave his permission on)...

Memnoch


>************************************************** *************************
>>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

[darkstar]

Gary V. Foss wrote:

> That's an interesting way of handling it. I'd opt for a slower rate, though.
> Table 12: Blood Ability Acquisition seems to be designed to correspond with Table
> 10: Bloodline Strength, so the gaps are sometimes small--particularly at the lower
> end of the scale--to accomodate lower bloodline strength scores. 15 points seems
> to be about the average gap. How does 20 points sound? A new ability at 100,
> another at 120, etc.

This is what I would do, although I would not give as a higher chance of
getting a blood ability as the 80-100 range. Possibly instead use
something like this.
100-120 01-40 None
41-60 Minor
61-80 Major
81-99 Great

and so on


- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://darkstar.cyberserv.com
ICQ: 2938300

[brenda santer]

Gary V. Foss wrote:
>You know, awnsheghlien seem to either have no children at all or they churn
>them out like rabbits! Gorgon: no kids. Manslayer: no kids. White Witch:
>kidless. Raven: fledgelingless. On the other hand both the Sphynx and the
>Hydra have progeny running around all over the place. I don't know if the
>giant spiders that inhabit the Spider's realm are supposed to be progeny or
>not.... Hmmm.
>

That is not entirely true Gary. I completely agree that the Sphinx and the
Hydra have many and varied progeny, but others on your list also seem to
have produced children.

Take for example the Raven. In ROE, the Vos paladin Teodor Profiev is said
to be a direct descentant of the Raven.

Rhuobhe Manslayer- had at least one child since Ilbecoris, who was the
mother of both Fhileraene of Tuarhievel and Fhiele Dhoesone of Dhoesone, is
Rhuobhe's granddaughter. As well, if you take the module Sword and Crown
to be true, Rhuobhe also had a half-demon son named Spiritrender.

The Gorgon--If you take Warlock of the Stonecrowns to be true, he had many
offspring with almost any female available, before killing these children
when he realized he would be immortal. And don't forget the child born to
Michael Roele's wife in The Iron Throne (well maybe we will forget
that-Simon Hawke does have a way with words).

These are just a few bits of information that I have referenced in my
campaigns and thought I'd share with you.

Hope you enjoy the BR setting as much as I do.


****************************************
Brenda Santer:

mailto:bsanter@shaw.wave.ca

ICQ:7059188
AIM: Laerme

****************************************

[rad smith]

On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Gary V. Foss wrote:

> I assumed it was contagious, or corrupting, or infectious, whatever.
> The Ogre's bloodline in LotHK can overpower the bloodline of a character
> that stabs him in the heart.

i hadn't read LotHK (i don't generally bother with published
adventures) so i didn't know that.

> I thought that went for all awnshegh.... Was I off my nut on this one?

no. i simply was not aware that it had been explicitly stated anywhere.

- --
rad

i consider myself to be one of england's finest liars.
-- blackadder II

[Gary V. Foss]

brenda santer wrote:

> That is not entirely true Gary. I completely agree that the Sphinx and the
> Hydra have many and varied progeny, but others on your list also seem to
> have produced children.
>
> Take for example the Raven. In ROE, the Vos paladin Teodor Profiev is said
> to be a direct descentant of the Raven.
>
> Rhuobhe Manslayer- had at least one child since Ilbecoris, who was the
> mother of both Fhileraene of Tuarhievel and Fhiele Dhoesone of Dhoesone, is
> Rhuobhe's granddaughter. As well, if you take the module Sword and Crown
> to be true, Rhuobhe also had a half-demon son named Spiritrender.
>
> The Gorgon--If you take Warlock of the Stonecrowns to be true, he had many
> offspring with almost any female available, before killing these children
> when he realized he would be immortal. And don't forget the child born to
> Michael Roele's wife in The Iron Throne (well maybe we will forget
> that-Simon Hawke does have a way with words).
>
> These are just a few bits of information that I have referenced in my
> campaigns and thought I'd share with you.

I stand corrected.

[bloebick@juno.com (Benja]

On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:32:30 +0000 (GMT) rad smith
writes:
3) he does it to keep ainuire weak
VERY likely. Probably the best reason.

>4) he does it for fun.
The second best idea.

>5) he's sterile
Nope, not at all. Blood Enemies and Warlock of the Stone Crowns talks
about Raesene having children.

>--
>rad
>

Benjamin

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[bloebick@juno.com (Benja]

On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 05:13:39 -0800 "Gary V. Foss"
writes:
>rad smith wrote:
>
>> i'd definitely think twice about comitting bloodtheft on the gorgon.
>as i
>> mentioned in another post, i think azrai's blood is contagious:
>> insto-awnshegh!
>
>I assumed it was contagious, or corrupting, or infectious, whatever.
>The Ogre's
>bloodline in LotHK can overpower the bloodline of a character that
>stabs him in the
>heart. I thought that went for all awnshegh.... Was I off my nut on
>this one?
>
>-Gary

Nope, not at all. You are absolutely correct. There are many, many
references to people becoming awnsheghlien by bloodtheft. I've even made
up rules for bloodline conversion, if you want to see them. My rules
allow conversion to any bloodline, but the "official" ruling on that is
only azrai's can corrupt a bloodline.

Benjamin

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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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[LordSchmit]

>>rad smith wrote:
>>
>>> i'd definitely think twice about comitting bloodtheft on the gorgon.
>>as i
>>> mentioned in another post, i think azrai's blood is contagious:
>>> insto-awnshegh!
>>
>>I assumed it was contagious, or corrupting, or infectious, whatever.
>>The Ogre's
>>bloodline in LotHK can overpower the bloodline of a character that
>>stabs him in the
>>heart. I thought that went for all awnshegh.... Was I off my nut on
>>this one?
>>
>>-Gary
>Nope, not at all. You are absolutely correct. There are many, many
>references to people becoming awnsheghlien by bloodtheft. I've even made
>up rules for bloodline conversion, if you want to see them. My rules
>allow conversion to any bloodline, but the "official" ruling on that is
>only azrai's can corrupt a bloodline.
>
>Benjamin

Exactly. Look at the Seadrake. He was once a fairly decent guy, then he killed
an awnshegh, and became one as a consequence. Azrai's blood does appear to be
corrupting and contagious.

[rad smith]

On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Benjamin W Loebick wrote:

> >1) only non-azrai blood works past a certain level
> perhaps... but not likely.
> >2) he may require the blood of other derivations as sustenance, rather
> >than to increase bloodstrength.
> I don't think this is true.
> >3) he does it to keep ainuire weak
> VERY likely. Probably the best reason.
> >4) he does it for fun.
> The second best idea.
> >5) he's sterile
> Nope, not at all. Blood Enemies and Warlock of the Stone Crowns talks
> about Raesene having children.

in other words this whole "harvesting the bloodlines of ainuire" is a
complete red herring. clearly it's in his advantage to kill off the
strongest regents; because then ainuire will be less of a threat.

logically, bloodtheft can't be the motive, so essentially his periodic
invasion of ainuire is just a very flashy set of assasinations.


- --
rad

i consider myself to be one of england's finest liars.
-- blackadder II

[Blastin]

In a message dated 98-03-23 08:52:05 EST, you write:

>


Yep...I sure did Memnoch. I'd be interested in seeing it when you're done...
Blastin