Drow?

[DKEvermore]

I have created a sub-race of Elves who were driven underground during the
human-elf wars pre-deismaar that are kinda a neat. You might like to do
something similar in your campaign.

I took the idea of Shadow Elves from Mystara and added my own special
abilities depending on the Clan. My players read this list so I won't go into
detail, but here are some rumors around Anuire:

1) The Shadowed ones (or deep elves) have lived underground for nearly 2000
years now and have apparently thrived in their new environment.

2) They used their powerful magic (much of which was lost to surface elves in
the post-Deismaar years) to modify, can we say warp?, themselves in order to
compete in this strange new environment. This has caused some real
psychological problems for some of them (alignment CN with some derangments to
a greater or lesser degree). Note--if any of you are familiar with the
Warhammer setting, I have taken all lot from their Dark Elf cultures, minus
the diety worship. The warping gives them a few extra abilities, and I've
developed the new Witch Elf Kit fighter-mage kit.

3) They had lived primarily in 4 large subterrainien cities that existed
somewhere betwen the real world and the shadow world, and thus could not be
easily found. (The Shadow Elves have since returned to Cerilia somewhere, but
still underground.)

4) They are attempting new diplomatic ties with the surface elves and many
humans fear, intend to continue the human-elf wars. Leaders fear the elves,
discovered marching by night in Tuornen, Avanil, Rhoubhe's Domain?!, and
Boeruine last year, may now be able to use underground tunnels and gain an
edge. It is said that a Half-Elven regent in the area may have been able to
prevent a successful negotiation with Rhoubhe Man-Slayer.

5) The Shadowed ones return have disturbed many Orog tribes deep within the
earth...

But after all the rumors came out over the course of a game year, the focus in
my campaign switched to Bechtur and has been so for a couple game years now.
::chuckle::

- -DKE

[darkstar]

Brian Stoner wrote:

> My subsequent campaigns do not have them...at all. But, the possibility of some
> sort of Dark Elf in the Shadow World intrigues me...

There is of course the Dark Elf like race that was created by a player
in my pbem game that was to be part of my Adurian expansion. I am
currently undecided about using them, but the information is still there
at the following address
http://darkstar.cyberserv.com/netbook/aduria/aduriaraces.html
if anyone is interested. Even if I do not use it in Aduria I will put
the info on the race in a seperate file on my page for everyone to read.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://darkstar.cyberserv.com
ICQ: 2938300

[Neil Barnes]

On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Daniel McSorley wrote:
> Reasoned response: I have never heard anything about an underdark per se in
> Aebrynis, though there is occasional mention of the network of orog tunnels
> (I think exaggerated).

I like the idea of some sorts of localised 'underdarks' - perhaps
running under some of the major mountain ranges. They're mentioned in
Sword & Crown, no? Although I thought they were presented as being a
little straight forward there - I'd prefer to make them a little more
terrifying.

I'm thinking a lot of the way the Goblin tunnels under the misty
mountains were presented in The Hobbit - they ran the length of the
mountain chains, and the deepest Dwarven mines occasionally touched
deeper, darker places under the earth...

Ecology deviation ahead:

One way that might work well to handle an Underdark to is to approach it
in more ecological terms - because there's no vegetation to support a
population, the residents of the underdark have to raid the surface, or
have remote mountain farms like the dwarves do [1]. As for the
traditional fungus growers - fungus needs a source of energy (usually
decaying organic matter) to feed off - so fungus cultivation will only
be possible in areas where this detritus can be found. The only species
in RL that cultivates fugus underground as their sole source of food are
leaf-cutter ants, which use leaves from the surface as a substrate for
the fungus.

The main source of organic input into underground ecosystems would be
from rivers which disappear underground - they represent a source of
dissolved nutrients, aquatic life and in the right seasons waterborn
detritus such as leaves. So aquatic & semi-aquatic life could be found
around underground rivers.

One fairly cool thing that happened in our Anuire campaign was being
told by one of the other players that Orog tunnels had been found under
Endier [2] - I like the image of the Orogs boring away at the heart of
Anuire, poised to strike and overthrow human society - it reminds me of
a really dodgy film from the fifties or sixties I once saw in which evil
Chinese hordes had tunneled under the Pacific with laser borers and were
about to destroy god-fearing american society (or something).

I like this sort of paranoia about what's going on under our feet - it
crops up in a few Lovecraft stories as well, and could be tapped to good
effect in a BR game, where the ground under their character's feet is
very important to the players.

neil

[1] There was an interesting photoarticle in (I think the Observer or
the Sunday Times - so you furrin types are out of luck - some months
back) which had pictures of some remote part of China where the
mountains had been quarried into rice terraces over thousands of years.
These places were huge - whole mountains had been slowly sculpted by
generations of farmers.

[2] Although when you think about it it's pretty unlikely, because you
be flooded by the watertable, which must be pretty high thsat close to
the Maesil.

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

Excellent ideas here, by the way.

On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Neil Barnes wrote:

> [2] Although when you think about it it's pretty unlikely, because you
> be flooded by the watertable, which must be pretty high thsat close to
> the Maesil.

Not necessarily. There are many kinds of rock which are impermeable to
water: they just don't have the myriad little cracks and crevices which
water runs through in other kinds of rock. If there happens to be an
outcropping of such rock (its been a long time since my geology course,
but basalt and granite come to mind) in the area, the orogs could easily
tunnel through those areas. Although a certain amount of care must be
taken: build your tunnel two close to the edge of the formation and you've
just created a new underground river rather than a highway of invasion.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[Michael Andrew Cullingha]

> Not necessarily. There are many kinds of rock which are impermeable to
> water: they just don't have the myriad little cracks and crevices which
> water runs through in other kinds of rock. If there happens to be an
> outcropping of such rock (its been a long time since my geology course,
> but basalt and granite come to mind) in the area, the orogs could easily
> tunnel through those areas. Although a certain amount of care must be
> taken: build your tunnel two close to the edge of the formation and you've
> just created a new underground river rather than a highway of invasion.
>
> Mark VanderMeulen
> vander+@pitt.edu

Heh heh. I can picture it now...

"Uh, sire, a couple of orog bodies just surfaced in that lake
in the center of the city. You know, the one fed by an
underground river..."

Mike

[Neil Barnes]

On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:
> Excellent ideas here, by the way.

But of course :)

> Not necessarily. There are many kinds of rock which are impermeable to
> water: they just don't have the myriad little cracks and crevices which
> water runs through in other kinds of rock.

D'oh. Good point.

> If there happens to be an
> outcropping of such rock (its been a long time since my geology course,
> but basalt and granite come to mind) in the area, the orogs could easily
> tunnel through those areas.

Do we have a geologists on the list? I'd love to see some informed
speculation about the geology that underlies Cerilia.

> Although a certain amount of care must be
> taken: build your tunnel two close to the edge of the formation and you've
> just created a new underground river rather than a highway of invasion.

This was my suggestion to rad when I heard about the problem...

Flood the tunnels and by observing where the bolting Orogs emerge you
can find out where they've tunnelled to, although it's a bit of a
bummer if they emerge in your capital. As it is he just got a mage to
collapse the tunnels instead.

neil

[Bruce MIller]

patera wrote:

> Do drow exist under Aebrynis?

In the Adventure "Warlock of the Stonecrowns" there is referance to a dead drow
with
corroded chian mail. I do nat have the tome in front of me, but I believe the
dead drow is found in a room with many pits and covered in continual darkness.

[LordSchmit]

>Flood the tunnels and by observing where the bolting Orogs emerge you
>can find out where they've tunnelled to, although it's a bit of a
>bummer if they emerge in your capital. As it is he just got a mage to
>collapse the tunnels instead.
>
>neil

That'd be an interesting Realm spell. "Flood Tunnels". Useful if you live next
to an Orog realm. (:

[Tim Nutting]

Don't know if anyone else wrote or thought of this -

The Drow were created (According to the Complete Book of Elves) when some
chose to follow Lolth against Corellan Lothlorien (sp?) in a great and
ancient war.

As there are no elven gods on Aebyrnis, how can there be drow, cursed with
black skin and forced to live underground?

If Planar Portals is the answer then what the hell, lets just throw in a
few Immortals while we're at it, eh?

Good Gaming!

Tim Nutting

[James Ruhland]

> The Drow were created (According to the Complete Book of Elves) when some
> chose to follow Lolth against Corellan Lothlorien (sp?) in a great and
> ancient war.
>
> As there are no elven gods on Aebyrnis, how can there be drow, cursed
with
> black skin and forced to live underground?
>
> If Planar Portals is the answer then what the hell, lets just throw in a
> few Immortals while we're at it, eh?
>
Sure, and a new Ehrsheghlien, The Avangion (a 30/30 Wizard/Psionicist with
godlike powers, from Dark Sun). . .oh, wait: The Avangion drove the Drow
back through the planar portal to the misbegotten realm they arrived from,
and, her job finished, she followed with them, to insure that no Drow would
breath Aerbyrnis air again (much like Harkonnens, thouse Drow.)

[Trizt]

Tim Nutting wrote:

>The Drow were created (According to the Complete Book of Elves) when some
>chose to follow Lolth against Corellan Lothlorien (sp?) in a great and
>ancient war.
>As there are no elven gods on Aebyrnis, how can there be drow, cursed with
>black skin and forced to live underground?
>If Planar Portals is the answer then what the hell, lets just throw in a
>few Immortals while we're at it, eh?

I think it was Ed who said that it wasn't impossible with planar
travlers to visit Cerilia, and as proof of that you have one of the
Hydras heads which has Psionic powers.

But if you don't like this, you can always make an option that elves of
some strange reason has some basic awnsheghlien forms, one which
resembles of Manslayer, one which resembles the "green elf" and one last
which resebles of the traditional drow.

As I have thought of it all time (since I bought BR), is that this is
the world where some powerful elves fought against each other about the
power of the realm. Some of thise became quite powerhungry as Corellan
and Lloth. Lloths followers came mainly from the southeast deserts, and
was natrually dark colored, while the forest living elves, of who a few
followed Corellan, where pale colored. Whit time they did take their war
away from Cerilia, and outside the homeworld they learned about the
minor races use of gods, which they teached to their followers and in
that way become more powerful them selfs.

But anyhow, it's all upto you to if you want to have drows in your BR
campagin. I think it's an adventure from TSR which mentions/hs drow, you
could explan their existance by magic, they are really normal elves, but
they have a magical item which gives them the same powers as if they
would be drows.

Oki doki, there was some suggestions... pick one of them or just make
your own explanation.

//Trizt
------------------
E-Mail: trizt@iname.com URL: http://www.student.gu.se/~jaah0002
------------------

[Kyle Foster]

I personally like the fact that there are no drow in BIRTHRIGHT. I
think they have been over used of late and lost some of the terror they
once inspired in players. (This could just be because I ran a really
long FR game and got really sick of Drow and the like).

I think BIRTHRIGHT is closer to the Celtic and Norwegien concept of
Light and Dark , or Seelie(sp) and UnSeelie(sp) courts in some ways.
The Elven realm in the Vos guide comes pretty close to the unseelie
court in some ways.

I also prefer the fact my players can't tell a "good" elf from a "bad"
one. Though I think that an elven character could probably recognize an
elf who had truely embraced evil along the lines of the Fiest RIFTWAR
saga. No one else could recognize an "evil" elf by appearnce, but the
elves could instictivly recognize the wrongness and pain in the evil
elfs spirit.

Those are my thoughts for what they are worth.

Kyle
- --
"What's so amazing about really deep thoughts?" - Tori Amos, "Silent
All These Years"

[Trizt]

Kyle Foster wrote:

> I also prefer the fact my players can't tell a "good" elf from a "bad"
>one. Though I think that an elven character could probably recognize an
>elf who had truely embraced evil along the lines of the Fiest RIFTWAR
>saga. No one else could recognize an "evil" elf by appearnce, but the
>elves could instictivly recognize the wrongness and pain in the evil
>elfs spirit.

I have to agree that players shouldn't be able to see in the appearance
of a beigin if it's good or evil. To shacke them, I have introduced
kobolds as nice guy's (it was in a FR campaign, where the PC's came to a
small tavern somewhere in nowhere. A huge amount of hobgoblins was
plundering it. When they saw something small fighting against a huge
bounch of hobgoblins, they thought it would be a dwarf fighter, but when
they had got rid of some of the hobgoblins so they could see what was in
the center, they saw a kobold in platemail. This kobold priest became an
important healing source for the party, which did lack an own priest),
showed a more civilisated version of goblins (living as
english/southeuropean pesants, with other words almost as slaves) and so
on.

But something I can think of, is that there exists darker colored elves
in Cerilia, in the same way that the Cerilian humans do have other skin
colors. But the color will not have nothing to do with special powers,
disadvantiges or ability scores.
Think of the disappointment for the players when their most loved PC's
has just been executed for the murder of the most lawful traider in
whole Cerilia.


//Trizt

---------------------
E-Mail: trizt@iname.com URL: http://www.student.gu.se/~jaah0002
---------------------

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Tim Nutting wrote:

> As there are no elven gods on Aebyrnis, how can there be drow, cursed with
> black skin and forced to live underground?

Well, for those who like to have drow running around, it IS possible that
Drow are elves who chose to retreat into the Shadow World after the defeat
at Deismaar. Someone (I forget who, but I saved the post so I could look
it up) proposed that when the Elves switched sides at Deismaar, some elves
refused to do so. Some, the followers of Rhobhe, refused to fight the
other elves, and focussed their agression against the humans, but other
elves were so enamored of Azrai and so caught up in their own hate and
anger that they were enraged by the "betrayal" of the rest of the elves,
and fought and killed their fellow elves. These are the Dark Elves (or
Shadow Elves) of Cerilia, for after the battle of Deismaar, none of the
other elves would forgive them, and hunted them down. Thus the Dark Elves
retreated underground, and from there discovered portals into the Shadow
World. There, due to the effects of the Shadow World, they were physically
changed into a different form (and thus they could develop the Drow
"mutations" in only 1000 years).

However, I would suggest coming up with a new set of "powers" for Cerilian
Shadow Elves that distinguish them from FR and Greyhawk Drow.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[DKEvermore]

In a message dated 98-04-07 22:43:42 EDT, you write:

> As there are no elven gods on Aebyrnis, how can there be drow, cursed with
> black skin and forced to live underground?
>
> If Planar Portals is the answer then what the hell, lets just throw in a
> few Immortals while we're at it, eh?
>
> Good Gaming!
>
> Tim Nutting
>
I agree. I say, if you'd like to see some other types of elves (doesn't
necessarily have to be racial, it could be cultural!) why not create them
special, just for Birthright? I did (I posted general description a while
ago, and have sent more complete backgrounds to a couple people outside the
List), and I think it more appropriate to create such Birthright-optimized
races. It adds to the setting rather that diluting it with the "generic"
stuff.

- -DKE

[DKEvermore]

In a message dated 98-04-08 06:54:48 EDT, you write:

> But something I can think of, is that there exists darker colored elves
> in Cerilia, in the same way that the Cerilian humans do have other skin
> colors. But the color will not have nothing to do with special powers,
> disadvantiges or ability scores.
> Think of the disappointment for the players when their most loved PC's
> has just been executed for the murder of the most lawful traider in
> whole Cerilia.
>
hmm.. Maybe. Also note that the suggested descriptions of Tuar Annwn elves
describe them as exceedingly gaunt and pale. I picture them really unearthly
to look at, and not so nice... After all, no sane elf will go to Tuar
Annwn...

Thoughts anyone?
- -DKE

[DustyAbom2]

hey, how about this? There was one main elf that stayed with Azrai: Rhoube
Manslayer. His skin is grayish....how about the possibility that BirthRight
Drow are the elves (and their descendants) that got less signifigant portions
of Azrai's blood at deismaar?

[darkstar]

DustyAbom2 wrote:
>
> hey, how about this? There was one main elf that stayed with Azrai: Rhoube
> Manslayer. His skin is grayish....how about the possibility that BirthRight
> Drow are the elves (and their descendants) that got less signifigant portions
> of Azrai's blood at deismaar?

Bryon Switala wrote up a new Elven race a while back that follows this
reasoning. I have reposted it here as it sort of fits in with this
discussion. The rest of the info can be found on my webpage in the
Adurian section. I am still deciding if to use it or now.

Awnsidhelien

The elves of Aduria are few and far between, they are a dark and
reclusive race, suspicious of all other races.
Early in history the elves contested human settlement in Cerilia. During
the War of Shadows they allied with
Azari, but at the height of the battle of Mount Deismaar most elves
changed to the side of the Five Tribes. The
elves that stayed loyal to Azari retreated with the rest of the Empire's
forces and now live in Aduria.
These elves have declared that the Cerilian Elves are their most hated
enemies.
There is only one race of Adurian Elves; they call themselves the
Awnsidhelien (awn-SHEE-lin), or Dark Elves.
The Awnsidhelien hold court in the deepest, most secluded dark woods in
the Adurian forests.
Dark Elves stand slightly taller then most humans, they are far more
graceful and slender. Most average 6 to 6
1/2 feet in height, and weigh 130 to 150 pounds. All have dusky grey
skin, like a light ash, and dark hair. The
total population of dark elves is roughly 50,000 and only about 200
carry the bloodline of Azari, mostly of tainted
strength. Those elves that are blooded have pure white eyes, devoid of
pupils and irises, yet all dark elves
cannot tolerate bright lights. (-2 to attack if unblooded, -4 if
blooded). Dark elves posses an unnatural beauty,
and their voices carry a spellbinding quality.
Dark elves are a brooding race and treat others with coldness. Adurian
elves have been given priestly powers,
same as the goblins, by Azari to prove his power. This makes the dark
elves believe even stronger in their own
superiority over their Cerilian cousins. They are creature created with
faerie dust and starlight, blasted by the
shadow. They have lost touch with the true magic of the land so now have
begun to slowly age. They still live
much longer then any of the other races, but this make the dark elves
value each day a little more then regular
elves.
The dark elves heart is one of conflict, they feel emotions to each
extreme; they can be moved to wild delight in
one instant, dark brooding the next, then suddenly unyielding anger all
in the span of a few minutes. More then
anything else these elves feel the lose of there heritage and the hatred
towards the cousins they felt betrayed
them.
Dark elves have a resistance to sleep and charm spells (90% resistance)
Since they have lost their immortality, they are effected by ageing
attacks, but not normal disease. Adurian
elves have infra vision and can see 60 feet in darkness. They also can
see by starlight or moonlight as if it were
day.
They do not need to sleep, but must rest the same amount of time a human
needs to sleep. If they don't they will
become physically exhausted.
Dark elves have no special attack bonuses and no ability to detect
secret doors or concealed objects, but are
able to surprise opponents as described in the Players Handbook. Dark
elves can pass without a trace in all
natural settings and ignore ground characteristics when moving.
Dark elves follow any non good alignment. Since the lose of their touch
with true magic dark elves regents do
not get the population and source bonuses for ruling provinces. Their
woodland homes are very dark and the
heart of it is a twisted mockery of nature. The society developed that
only blooded females are taught to be
priests, this was because the race wanted to preserve the females for
childbearing, they stayed back and didn't
fight.
Blooded males are the only ones taught true magic, they are mostly
Fighter/Wizards. Non-Blooded Dark Elves
have lost their connection from the True Magic so they can not be True
Wizards.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
Homepage: http://darkstar.cyberserv.com
ICQ: 2938300

[Shade]

At 09:33 PM 4/7/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> The Drow were created (According to the Complete Book of Elves) when some
>> chose to follow Lolth against Corellan Lothlorien (sp?) in a great and
>> ancient war.
>>
>> As there are no elven gods on Aebyrnis, how can there be drow, cursed
>with
>> black skin and forced to live underground?
>>
>> If Planar Portals is the answer then what the hell, lets just throw in a
>> few Immortals while we're at it, eh?
>>
>Sure, and a new Ehrsheghlien, The Avangion (a 30/30 Wizard/Psionicist with
>godlike powers, from Dark Sun). . .oh, wait: The Avangion drove the Drow
>back through the planar portal to the misbegotten realm they arrived from,
>and, her job finished, she followed with them, to insure that no Drow would
>breath Aerbyrnis air again (much like Harkonnens, thouse Drow.)

Yes, this does make a lot of sense. Perhaps we should make this the official
take on drow, hmm?

[Tremiere]

My opinion on elves is simple. There is one type of elf in Cerilia. The
Cerilian elf. They have no gods to follow, otherwise, Azrai would not have
been able to influence their entire race. They believe that they become a
star when they die, and fight dragons (the only other immortals) in the
afterlife (as stated in the book Greatheart). So I think that if Drow were to
exist, they would have to be a string of elves that went underground for some
reason in the past, and have lived there ever since. Naturally, they would
evolve to become something different. Though, I wonder, if elves would evolve
as fast as humans, through natural selection?

[DKEvermore]

In a message dated 98-04-08 14:19:36 EDT, you write:

> Though, I wonder, if elves would evolve
> as fast as humans, through natural selection?

The race of elves (driven underground during the elf-human wars many centuries
ago) which I designed for my own campaign cast powerful magic upon themselves
which bent their minds and enhanced their bodies in some...unusual ways.
These modifications were done to themselves in order to enable them to better
compete as a race in the underground world. I don't have my notes one this
computer or I'd transmit them for the list, besides they're quite lengthy.
Perhaps I'll just add them to my web page...

- -DKE

[Tremiere]

In a message dated 98-04-08 15:51:53 EDT, you write:

>

Would elves tend to evolve in an underground habitat more toward the Rockseer
Elves, or the Drow. I would imagine it would be the Rockseers. So your
explanation would be best when considering the creation of drow.

[Gary V. Foss]

Kyle Foster wrote:

> I personally like the fact that there are no drow in BIRTHRIGHT. I
> think they have been over used of late and lost some of the terror they
> once inspired in players. (This could just be because I ran a really
> long FR game and got really sick of Drow and the like).
> I think BIRTHRIGHT is closer to the Celtic and Norwegien concept of
> Light and Dark , or Seelie(sp) and UnSeelie(sp) courts in some ways.
> The Elven realm in the Vos guide comes pretty close to the unseelie
> court in some ways.
> I also prefer the fact my players can't tell a "good" elf from a "bad"
> one. Though I think that an elven character could probably recognize an
> elf who had truely embraced evil along the lines of the Fiest RIFTWAR
> saga. No one else could recognize an "evil" elf by appearnce, but the
> elves could instictivly recognize the wrongness and pain in the evil
> elfs spirit.

Hear, hear! I agree wholeheartedly. What's the point in having a
specialized
campaign world if after it is released all of the generic game monsters
are
introduced? That's why I don't much care for the introduction of drow,
gnomes,
psionics, planar adventures or non-blooded ruler to the Birthright
setting. It
just makes it too much like all the other game worlds.

- -Gary

[Jim Cooper]

Gary V. Foss wrote:
> Hear, hear! I agree wholeheartedly. What's the point in having a
> specialized
> campaign world if after it is released all of the generic game monsters
> are
> introduced? That's why I don't much care for the introduction of drow,
> gnomes,
> psionics, planar adventures or non-blooded ruler to the Birthright
> setting. It
> just makes it too much like all the other game worlds.
>
> -Gary
>

Hmmm, what always attracted me to Birthright is the fact that you could
play rulers and such, and there are game mechanics to govern this, not
that you possessed a bloodline. I could still play Birthright without
having bloodabilities, questing to eventually find my destiny (in being
a Guildmaster, Emperor, ArchBishop, or whatever). But I don't think
this milieu would ever have attracted me without the possibity of me
being a ruler of a domain, or eventually becoming one. In short, I
think what makes Birthright a unique campagin setting is because your a
ruler and can effect the shape of the game world much more tangibly, not
because you have some sort of 'divine right'.

But, being a closet munchkin myself, I love being able to have all those
juicy power abilities that bloodlines allow characters to have! :)

heh heh

Darren ('I can't understand why most of my players want to play
unblooded lackeys of NPC rulers') Cooper :-D

[Tremiere]

In a message dated 98-04-08 18:46:14 EDT, you write:

Light and Dark , or Seelie(sp) and UnSeelie(sp) courts in some ways. >>

This is 100% the concept of Birthright. The light vs. the dark.. And just as
natural history illustrates, both the light and the good are plagued with
traitors amongst the ranks (Boeruine for example).

[DKEvermore]

In a message dated 98-04-08 17:51:30 EDT, you write:

> Would elves tend to evolve in an underground habitat more toward the
> Rockseer
> Elves, or the Drow. I would imagine it would be the Rockseers. So your
> explanation would be best when considering the creation of drow.
>
My point was that I was creating a new race, tailored for Birthright. These
are not drow, nor are they quite Shadow Elves from Mystara.

- -DKE

[Trizt]

On 09-Apr-98, Tremiere (Tremiere@aol.com) wrote about Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] -
Drow?:
- ->In a message dated 98-04-08 18:46:14 EDT, you write:

- -> > Light and Dark , or Seelie(sp) and UnSeelie(sp) courts in some ways. >>

- ->This is 100% the concept of Birthright. The light vs. the dark.. And just
as
- ->natural history illustrates, both the light and the good are plagued with
- ->traitors amongst the ranks (Boeruine for example).

When having "elven races" of which one is generally evil and the other good,
why not do the same thing with humans, pale humans tends to evil while colored
humans are good? (the choise of colors is based oon the standard meaning of
colors).

//Trizt of Ward^RITE

-

[bloebick@juno.com (Benja]

On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 12:10:15 -0700 "Tim Nutting"
writes:
>Tuar Annwn?
>
>Is this in Vosgaard?
>
>
>Tim Nutting

Absolutely!! It is the youngest elven nation on Cerelia, and also the
most isolated now. Nobody messes with 'em.

Benjamin, Mr. Vosgaard

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[James Ruhland]

>
> Tuar Annwn?
>
> Is this in Vosgaard?
>
Yep: interesting realm. Synopsis: the Tuar Annwn elves were about to be
pushed into the sea by a horde of Vos, one of the TA mages did something. .
.creative. . .which resulted in forces from the Shadow World saving the
elves' bacon, but one of the effects of their pyhrric victory was that TA
now exists partway "between" the Shadow World & Aerbrynnis. And the elves
are somewhat affected by this shadowy existance.
They aint "evil" just kinda. . .different (even other Elves don't send
their kids on spring break to TA.)

[prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co]

- ----- Begin Included Message -----

Tuar Annwn?

Is this in Vosgaard?


- ----- End Included Message -----

Yes. It's partially in the Shadowworld for much the same reason as Seideth (sp?) if you have the Tuarhaveil sourcebook. The elves breached the barrier to the
shadow to drive off the Vos and haven't been able to close it completly. This
kingdom probably will be involved in the upcoming shadow world adventures/SBs.

In my history of Vosgaard, written well before Tribes, Tuar Annwn used to be an
empire in Northern Vosgaard. I treated it much like Melnibone. Gaunt, pale
Elves with "evil" (vs humans) and sorceress tendencies. The addition of the
shadow menace has only added to this cloak of mystery and fear. I changed the
facts presented in Tribes slightly so the Melnibon.... er, Elves used the
shadow weapon against both their revolting human vassels and their outside Vos
allies. The elves of Mighty Tuar Annwn have cooperated with humans, ruled them
and hunted them as animals. They now skulk in slendid dreamy isolation. In
many descriptions of elven realms the following statement is paid lip service,
but not enforced by DMs (elves- everybody's favorite PC ya know). In Tuar
Annwn, it's certain death for any human to set foot in this part of the forest.

Randax

[James Ruhland]

> but not enforced by DMs (elves- everybody's favorite PC ya know).
>
Yah know, in The Dragon there was for several years an add for a game
(which name slips my mind right now) with a big, ugly looking critter and
the caption:

"No Elves. . ."

My thought at the time was "why would anyone want to play in a fantasy
game with no elves?????" . . .I'm begining to see the point. . .

(Porphyrogenetus; who has probably played 10 times more Elven characters
than all other races put together in is gaming "career", but is
reconsidering.)

[KirbyRanma]

"(elves- everybody's favorite PC ya know)"

"My thought at the time was "why would anyone want to play in a fantasy game
with no elves?????" . . .I'm begining to see the point. . ."

"(Porphyrogenetus; who has probably played 10 times more Elven characters than
all other races put together in is gaming "career", but is reconsidering.)"

For my two cents worth, I usually play humans and sometimes it's because
I'm the only one or one of two. In Birthright, this is the first time we've
had so many humans, but what is funny, we have a player who doesn't play
humans. She refuses to do so and when I ask she just says "I don't play
humans!" She's pretty brutal (females are like that :-) so I tend to leave it
at that. She's a half-elf in BR.

Take care all,
Kirby

"I always wanted to be somebody. I realize now that I should have been more
specific."
- --Lily Tomlin

[DKEvermore]

In a message dated 98-04-09 12:50:39 EDT, you write:

> If we have to have drow/shadow elves, don't create a new race, just add on
> what we have about the Tuar Annwn elves. And there is NO need that the
"dark
> evles" would be generally evil, just different, as there are already alot
of
> those evil races as the humans.
>
I wouldn't think that adding such a race would be something you'd *have* to
do, just if you want to. My Shadow Elves as written aren't evil, but rather
CN. This is due to the warping their mind has undergone. I have created a
careful balance in this way: for each extra "advantage" an elf might have,
they suffer a mental problem or derangement of equal magnitude. The greatest
among them have many powers, but tend to be.... unpredictable.

Furthermore, they are called Shadow Elves not due to their coloring (they are
quite pale) but rather due to the fact that after they went underground, they
used their great magic to carve out pockets for cities. These "pockets"
existed half in Cerilia and half in the Shadow World, and thus went undetected
for centuries.

But this is only an element I decided to add to my world to produce a specific
type of adventure material for a while. In general, you might find no reason
at all to add to the elven population in Cerilia at all.

later!
DKE

[Ryan B. Caveney]

On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, DKEvermore wrote:

> My Shadow Elves as written aren't evil, but rather CN.
> This is due to the warping their mind has undergone.

My point was this: the Sidhelien are already largely CN.
This is due to having a culture that places a high value on individuality,
and doing whatever seems best at the time, regardless of what anyone else
(particularly members of other species) may think.

- --Ryan

[James Ruhland]

>
> My point was this: the Sidhelien are already largely CN.
>
CN is usually, in official/semi-official alignment descriptions considered
either:

1) Amoral
or
2) Crazy
>
> This is due to having a culture that places a high value on
individuality,
> and doing whatever seems best at the time, regardless of what anyone else
> (particularly members of other species) may think.
>
3) classic narssicism (described above; too bad I can't spell "narcissism"
today. . .sigh)

[Mauricio Muñoz Lorenzo]

Tim Nutting escribió:

> Tuar Annwn?
>

A elves land of shadows

> Is this in Vosgaard?

yes

>
>
> Tim Nutting
> ************************************************** *************************
> >

[veryfastperson@juno.com]

>I agree, the dark elves presented in the monstrous compendium (and
>thrashed
>out in FR) are fundamentally linked to Lolth (Lloth). This is not
>possible
>in the BR campaign as the elves of any origin have no gods. Therefore
>I
>consider what I call "Shadow Elves" (sorry to TSR for any copyright
>violation with respect to the same named race in the Mystara setting)
>as a
>offshoot of the elves who were first corrupted by Azrai and taught
>evil
>magic. They followed him bellow the ground into eternal darkness and
>learnt
>the abilities that are common to drow. These then become the alven
>equivalent of the Fallen only on an entire race level (given it would
>have
>been much easier to train them in magic due to the elves natural
>aptitude
>towards magic in the first place.

here's a crazy idea about drow (i know this has been discussed and beaten
over the head, but i just thought of this). Who's to say there aren't
elves living under the surface.
Now, the easiest way to discern a drow, from a surface elf, is the fact
that he is black skinned, and has white hair. But what if, by chance,
some of the elves of cerilia /did/ run underground, but their appearance
never changed! They look exactly the same as surface elves, and there is
no way to tell the difference. thus, the surface elves could still be
mortal enemies with these "drow", but would have a hard time telling the
difference :)
(well, would make for some real fun to throw at PC's when espionage came
around:)

Well, just a couple logs to throw on the fire, enjoy :)

Erik


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