View Full Version : Melding BR with MotP

11-15-2001, 03:42 PM

First of all, I'd like to thank the people that worked hard at translating Birthright material from 2nd to 3rd edition rules-- that helped save me lots of $$ from going from one campaign setting (that I really loved) to another. (I'm not good at balancing rules, spells, ect. and your work is great!)
However, I have been purchasing other books, specifically from Sword & Sorcery studio and Wizards, and had a couple questions for anyone who has good ideas.

I'd like to integrate the Manual of the Planes information into my BR campaign, however lightly as not to ruin BR's distinct flavor. How could I go about doing this? (Inner plane setup, how to arrange the Transitive planes, and which outer planes to add in the BR cosmology). Any Planar experts out there?

With the new release of Ravenloft, does anyone have any ideas of how to make this the default setting for the Shadow World? I think it would be a neat idea to open up the shadow world into a bigger, specific type of material plane of its own, either that or a modified Plane of Shadow, or ACK!! I dunno, that's why I'm posting here :) I love Ravenloft's dark feel and believe that, with some modifying, it could only add to Birthright's darker side.

If anyone is interested in helping me, or if you have any good ideas, pls post or email me. Thanks!


P.S. If this infringes upon copyrights, pls take it off!! I don't mean to get anyone into trouble.

11-16-2001, 08:43 AM
Not to sure about the manual of planes but ravenloft is a very cool idea. With some minor drawbacks, the shadow world is a mirror world of birthirght, just twisted, kinda like some Tim burton movies ;) Second, ravenloft has to much history to directly incorporate. And thrid, ravenloft is a living world, the living do have many cities, its just dark and gothic, the shadow world as described in BR is an entire world where the dead populate and there are no living with few excpetions. Cities are run by ghouls, populated by zombies and what not. But with some tinkering you colud use idea's from ravenloft to the shadowworld. Good luck and hope to hear more about your idea's

Lord Eldred
11-17-2001, 12:37 AM
If you are the DM and want to change what the Birthright Shadow world is like to make your own unique campaign, you should do so. I like the idea of making the Shadow World, Ravenloft. It would be an excellent way to combine both campaign settings.

11-17-2001, 02:16 AM
I agree with Lord Eldred, your the DM and if you want to make something fit in the way you like it then by all means do so, especially if it enhances your campaign

11-24-2001, 03:39 PM
I, personally, am a big fan of the Raveloft world and would like nothing more than to have it integrated into the Birthright world (HINT HINT El!) However, as opposed to seeing it become the shadow world, if I was in the campaign, I would prefer to have it be in the world of the living as a "dark continent".

Just a humble players opinion.

11-24-2001, 08:45 PM
I wish I knew more about Ravenloft to add comments here but I don't and don't plan on buying it anytime soon. But I would like to say that Blood Spawn 2 has a really good depiction of the shadow world in my opinon (and its FREE!). The idea of Ravenloft being a separate continent I think is great! It could be a continent where portals from the shadow world are much more prevalent and so the shadow world has some influence over it. But I'm sure the bestiary would fit right into Cerilia.


Lord Eldred
11-25-2001, 03:59 AM
Ravenloft as a continent where the Shadow World and the real world are so interconnected that it creates the distinct features of Ravenloft.

The only problem is some of the members of my group hate Ravenloft. I am not sure why something but bad prior experience.

Are there any Ravenloft players out there that could tell me the pros and cons of the campaign setting?

11-25-2001, 03:35 PM
Lord Eldred,

As a former Ravenloft player I can tell you, my favorite part was that it caused you to re-think all the things you would normally do. This was especially tru where magic was concerned because it did not behave the same in Ravenloft as it did elsewhere. Additionally there was a nasty side-effect that popped up if you happened to kill a ruler of a country in Ravenloft

11-25-2001, 03:36 PM
As a land it is structured similarly to Cerilia, et. al. which would make it a plug-n-play with birthright

11-26-2001, 04:57 PM
Well, in many ways Ravenloft is similar to the SW, only "the shadow world as described in BR is an entire world where the dead populate and there are no living with few excpetions", to quote another post. But what if the veil ("Evanessence"?)between the SW and Cerilia was completely torn apart and the SW gradually absorbed Cerilia?? A dark gothic medieval setting, living, yet dark and twisted, without magic etc. Maybe RL is BR in the future, or something.
On the other hand, one has to figure out how to incorporate the other RL domains (one from Dragonlance etc.)

12-06-2001, 06:17 AM
If I was in this situation, I would make the assumption that the SW is a true mirror of Cerilia (and thus all of Aebrynis for that matter). Next, I would take all the dread lords of evil from RL and all the rules that make RL a true land of dread and incorporate those rules as the working rules of the SW (magic effects, horror effects, etc.). From there, I would take the existing maps of Cerilia, get the most dark and forboding places that are in the real world, and carry those over into the SW (the various regions have a number of dark places where the SW is closer to the real world than usual) With those in place, you then populate your new SW with all manner of undead and other dark creatures that are to be found in RL (goblyns and such), city for city, province for province. It is knows that the SW is habited by undead, but the other creatures are just unheard of, or too rare to be mentioned. With the lands populated, you then take each of the dark regents from RL and make them the regents of your SW, adding many of your own making, sprinkle in some awnsheighlin and so forth, to carry over the continuity and connection with BR. They each would have carved out their domains differently from the way that the Anuireans, Brechts and such have formed theres. So the area of the SW that correspondes to Roesone, could be a small portion of the actual domain of a SW kingdom. A band of halflings that remained behind and roam the lands with no true borders (gypsies) could be a large portion of the few actual living beings there. A blooded ghoul priest of Azrai (or some other deity) would be a horrifying opponent, and then there is the Cold Rider, himself, who romes the whole of the SW, while all the other lords are restricted to their static empires. Many adventures could be incorporated from just conceptualizing this type of SW, without ever even fleshing it out in its enirety.;)

Oeric Galdaneth
12-07-2001, 12:03 AM
The first time I read about the Shadow World I recalled the White Wolf RPG Wraith. I don't know if a lot of you are familiar with it, but a lot of the stuff the Shadow World is about deals with many of Wraith's description. The game is contemporary though, but part of the setting can be used properly.

12-07-2001, 03:16 AM
While it may spawn negative repsonses...

I personally hate Ravenloft and think it was one of TSR's biggest wastes of paper. I've never been into delving into evil incarnate games.

Lord Eldred
12-08-2001, 02:29 AM
Lawgiver that doesn't suprise me about you given the fact that you brought christianity into your world. However, if such an evil place existed you and your priests would want to destroy it. It would still work as a campaign setting for the shadow world. You would want to rid it of the evil so the good haflings could return home and live in peace! ;)

12-08-2001, 03:36 AM
I actually have a version of the Shadow World. But its not nearly as foul as Ravenloft. My PCs haven't expressed much interest in it though, so I've never taken the time to expand it greatly. I even have a nifty verse for a springboard when I work on the SW:

Job 38:17
"Have the gates of death been shown to you? Have you seen the gates of the shadow of death?"

I'm not sure if your familiar with the Bible, but its a portion where Job questions God and his sovereignty. God replies with a series of questions rather than answers. This was one of them. The translation to the campaign is that God knows it exists, but that humans have yet to comprehend it.