RULES: Gorgon

[John]

> It's a fiction. A carefully cultivated fiction, just like the idea that
> he stole the Roele bloodline. What he does is create enough havok to
> encourage those great heroes (who might be able to unite Anuire) to
> creep into the Crown after him (LotR style) at which point he kills
> them.

The Gorgon - not evil, just misunderstood.

;-)

John.
"Once I was a lamb, playing in a green field. Then
the wolves came. Now I am an eagle and I fly in a
different universe."
"And now you kill the lambs," whispered Dardalion.
"No, priest. No one pays for lambs."
- David Gemmel, Waylander

[David & Jeri Elliott]

I have a few questions for the Listmembers:
Is Gorgon indeed stuck in his castle or can he come and go as he pleases? Have you found anymore refs to this besides the one in "Blood Enemies"? How do you play him? I'd appreciate any input on this.

Thnx
David Elliott

[Sythryc@aol.co]

the gorgon is the gorgon and can go wherever he pleases, but i suspect he
spends a lot of time in research concerning a gate with the shadow world,
keeping his weapons-skills up to snuff, and plotting and scheming. i doubt he
is bound to the castle. (in the computer game he walks wherever he darn well
pleases). it is listed that he is a wizard of some high level so i suspect he
creates magic items as well. not to mention the regent duties he must
perform. contesting holding, creating holdings and such, he has some
lieutenants but what regent doesn't (and is still buried in kingdom ruling
duties?)

[Daniel McSorley]

>I have a few questions for the Listmembers:
>Is Gorgon indeed stuck in his castle or can he come and go as he >pleases?
Have you found anymore refs to this besides the one in >"Blood Enemies"? How
do you play him? I'd appreciate any input on >this.

I personally think he doesn't really see any need to leave the castle. If
he sits around long enough, some idiot scion will come try to kill him, and
he can get all the bloodtheft he wants. But, in various sources, it refers
to his periodic rampages. This sounds to me like the old cat is out there
kicking some butt and taking some numbers himself. So, I'd say he can leave
whenever he gets the urge.
Thing is, the Gorgon is a plotter. He would prefer to manuever his
enemies into facing him on his own turf (witness Micheal Roele), where he is
strongest, the home field advantage as it were. So he won't leave without a
really good reason, and definitely won't be tricked into doing so. He
hasn't made it 1500 years by being gullible.
Ideally, the players should hear of him being out and about, mainly
unsubstantiated rumors. Let them meet him once, and escape, just to put the
fear of Raesene in them. Then, I've always pictured the climactic battle
being in the valley below Battlewaite, where M. Roele fought him. If they
win (big if!), the ground rocks, lightning crashes, and they receive the
bloodline that Micheal Roele grounded just before he got cut in half. Just
a dream of mine . My players are never that ambitious, they just
like to screw each other over, on a national scale.

Daniel McSorley
mcsorley.1@osu.edu

[bloebick@juno.com (Benja]

Well, I can't imagine him being stuck in his castle. How would he have
gotten all those goblins and orogs to follow him if he didn't go out once
in a while and smash up some restless chiefs? Come on - goblins aren't
known to follow some distant power that sits in a castle all the time.
I don't have any other references on the subject that I can think about
(maybe some of the novels mention the Gorgon outside Kal Saitharak,
perhaps Greatheart). I just figured a moribund Gorgon made life boring.

Bejamin

On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:27:16 -0800 David & Jeri Elliott
writes:
>I have a few questions for the Listmembers:
> Is Gorgon indeed stuck in his castle or can he come and go as
>he pleases? Have you found anymore refs to this besides the one in
>"Blood Enemies"? How do you play him? I'd appreciate any input on
>this.
>
>Thnx
>David Elliott
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[Neil Barnes]

On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, David & Jeri Elliott wrote:
> I have a few questions for the Listmembers:
> Is Gorgon indeed stuck in his castle or can he come and
> go as he pleases? Have you found anymore refs to this besides the one
> in "Blood Enemies"? How do you play him? I'd appreciate any input on
> this.

It's a well kept secret of my campaign that the Curse of the Awnsheglien
binds them to the land - they cannot leave their own domains.
Essentially regency flows more smoothly through them, since it has
reshaped their bodies, making the bond between land and ruler much
stronger.

neil

[Daniel McSorley]

>It's a well kept secret of my campaign that the Curse of the Awnsheglien
>binds them to the land - they cannot leave their own domains.
>Essentially regency flows more smoothly through them, since it has
>reshaped their bodies, making the bond between land and ruler much
>stronger.
>
I like this, but how then do you explain the rampages and ravaging of
the awnshegh? Their lieutenants? Or just some normal regent blaming it on
them?
Daniel McSorley
mcsorley.1@osu.edu

[Neil Barnes]

On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Daniel McSorley wrote:
> I like this, but how then do you explain the rampages and ravaging of
> the awnshegh? Their lieutenants? Or just some normal regent blaming it on
> them?

Their armies usually. This is why the Gorgon had to use Karl Bissel as a
lieutenant to destablise Kiergaard. It's why he could never go (in
person) to the seige of Adlersburg. It's what stops the Raven from
appearing in _your PC's_ bed chamber with a souped-up charm person
spell. It's what stops the Magian from reducing the capitals of
Khourane & Min Dhousai to smoking craters in the ground.

The Gorgon's rampages through Anuire are just the work of his armies. As
provinces & domains get added to their empires, the Awnshegh become able
to move more freely.

neil

[Daniel McSorley]

>Their armies usually. This is why the Gorgon had to use Karl Bissel as a
>lieutenant to destablise Kiergaard. It's why he could never go (in
>person) to the seige of Adlersburg. It's what stops the Raven from
>appearing in _your PC's_ bed chamber with a souped-up charm person
>spell. It's what stops the Magian from reducing the capitals of
>Khourane & Min Dhousai to smoking craters in the ground.
>

Actually, I've never rationalized it this much. IMC, what stops them is
me :) I s'pose I should come up with a good reason one of these days, but
I've always assumed they had better plots to play with than screwing with
some low level, newbie king.


>The Gorgon's rampages through Anuire are just the work of his armies. As
>provinces & domains get added to their empires, the Awnshegh become able
>to move more freely.
>
But then, what do you make of the Gorgon's generational culling of the
bloodlines? Surely his armies don't capture regents and bring them back to
him. I've always seen him as there, in the flesh/stone/whatever. But this
might explain why his forces occasionally rampage through Mhoried, and he's
never managed to annex it. Interesting.
Daniel McSorley
mcsorley.1@osu.edu

[Sythryc@aol.co]

i find that hard to believe that be ing an answighlein means you cannot leave
your borders, look at Roubhe Manslayer, he raids Tournen all the time.

conquest can get boring too perhaps these figures are motivated to try to
figure out new schemes of conquest other than strict warfare

[Neil Barnes]

On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Daniel McSorley wrote:
> Actually, I've never rationalized it this much.

I didn't actually set out to rationalise it. It just seems 'right' to
me.

> I s'pose I should come up with a good reason one of these days, but
> I've always assumed they had better plots to play with than screwing with
> some low level, newbie king.

If I was an Awnshegh, _I_'d do it. Roesone is in an excellent position
to destabilise southern Anuire (for example).

> But then, what do you make of the Gorgon's generational culling of the
> bloodlines? Surely his armies don't capture regents and bring them back to
> him. I've always seen him as there, in the flesh/stone/whatever. But this
> might explain why his forces occasionally rampage through Mhoried, and he's
> never managed to annex it. Interesting.

It's a fiction. A carefully cultivated fiction, just like the idea that
he stole the Roele bloodline. What he does is create enough havok to
encourage those great heroes (who might be able to unite Anuire) to
creep into the Crown after him (LotR style) at which point he kills
them.

If he could lead his armies himself, I can't justify him not
slaughtering anyone who opposes him.

neil

[Bondman]

> >It's a well kept secret of my campaign that the Curse of the Awnsheglien
> >binds them to the land - they cannot leave their own domains.
> >Essentially regency flows more smoothly through them, since it has
> >reshaped their bodies, making the bond between land and ruler much
> >stronger.
> >
> I like this, but how then do you explain the rampages and ravaging of
> the awnshegh? Their lieutenants? Or just some normal regent blaming it
on
> them?

I like this explaination as well too....To answer the rampages thing a
little, I'm going to throw reference to two novels, "The Spider's Test" and
"Greatheart". The Spider in the book has many rampages...however, nearly
all the info he receives comes from his lieuys or from his ability to
commune with his spiders...it really only mentions twice (where I can
remember) that Tal-Qazar comes close to leaving the Fell. And still, he
was technically still within his domain. To me, the key thing to remember
here is, "Is he a regent?" In greatheart, the slug awnsheigh (name ?) was
able to go from domain to domain and province to province. I believe
because he was not a regent! I agree in saying that if the awnsheigh is a
regent, then their ties to the land are stronger (obviously) and it nearly
holds them a prisoner within their domain...kinda like a genie in a lamp...
Bondman

[HSwiftfoot@aol.co]

In a message dated 98-02-19 10:32:44 EST, you write:

>

I like this explanation as well. For those who feel the regent awnshegh does
his own rampaging outside his borders, why not say that they can leave for
short periods, say one month (i.e. Action Round) a year, but then the power of
the land calls them back?

I also like the fact that expanding their realm means they have more freedom
of movement...gives them one more excellent reason to go a-conquering. Nice
idea, that.

Kevin M.

[Espen Andre Johnsen]

> I have a few questions for the Listmembers:
> Is Gorgon indeed stuck in his castle or can he come and
> go as he pleases? Have you found anymore refs to this besides the one
> in "Blood Enemies"? How do you play him? I'd appreciate any input on
> this.
>

I read somewhere, in one of the birthright rules, that people/scions
where in fear of the Gorgons "Blood raids". That is, he would go out into the
lands around his kingdom and increase his bloodline by killing a few of the
blodded characters that could be found.
It also says in BoM that the Gorgon has his own bloodhound and disguiser
( both magician kits ) so that he can hide his apperance when he wants to...well
it is written as a roumor.

Just my 4000gp.

Espen

[Tim Nutting]

I've never seen fit to tie any awshegh to its realm. IMC the only reason
they stay put is because they are variously too busy with rulership duties,
surrounded by powerful enemies, or just plain don't care too.

I have a campaign waiting on the burners for some folk to decide they want
to have the old rusty couch. In there I use Raesene unmercifully as a
quiet plotter and strong arm. I took the lead from the Taurhievel (sp?)
Players Secrets folder and have Prince Fhilarene as old Stony's "guest".
My players allways pick the South Coast to start with, so the campaign idea
is centered there.

As the campaign starts (hopefully), the players do what they want for some
time and get introduced to Sword and Crown (I really did love that
adventure) and learn more about nearby politics. Secretly, the Gorgon has
woked out an alliance with a power mad Gavin Tael of Ghoere. Stony will
press Mhoried while Tael is now free to do as he wishes, especially after
cementing his alliance with Jason Raenech of Osoerde by delivering the
rebel heir (Moergan). Now the PCs have an opportunity there to catch both
sides unaware and rescue Moergan, but if they don't then Osoerde belongs to
Raenech.

The Gorgon sits back and watches all this, waiting for the countryside to
errupt in warfare so that he can pounce, just like the predator he is.
I've got allot more, but that would be clogging the list and part of a
different post.

So with all this, I see old Stonehead as a very patient entity. He makes
planes that will take two centuries to complete, because he's immortal
(well, long lived but from the normal joe's perscpective....) He is
jealous of his cousins in Azrai's favor, he too had the power to become a
god, but was too mired in this plane to rise above it, too lustful of
earthly power to understand the powers of Hell/Baator (whatever you use)

The Gorgon is not a foe to be trifled with. He will outsmart any player,
and if you have to use secret info that he shouldn't know to do it, then do
so. He allways prepares for the worst but expects the best (for him).

I guess reading the Iron Throne is a good place to get a grasp on his
personality. He is truly a villain of the first order there.

Until my favorite awnshegh rules the world (I love this guy)
Tim Nutting

[DavTyr@aol.co]

The way we play All Abominations is that they are basically content with the
territories they hold, or are soooo cautious that they don't leave their own
territories unless they must. The ahnswegh (?) are in credibly powerful and
since only the regent & his luitenants would be about the only ones able to
affect an abomination if they chose to attack. You couldn't have gorgon or
spider or rove just deciding to attack whenever they felt like expanding, They
could quickly take control of all cerilia. Abominations are smart and take
control of countries through manipulation, seduction (of power), and Magical
charming. Have fun with your abominations but remember that the PC's Should
never be allowed to destroy them just keep them at bay.

[Neil Barnes]

On Sat, 21 Feb 1998 DavTyr@aol.com wrote:
> The way we play All Abominations is that they are basically content with the
> territories they hold, or are soooo cautious that they don't leave their own
> territories unless they must.

I can't really see this for NPCs such as Raesene, the Magian or the
Raven. The Magian's very presence on the battlefield should be
equivalent to an entire army [Stoneskin, Protection from Normal
Missiles, Levitate, 5 Walls of Fire to prevent retreat from the
battlefield, lots of Fireballs. Goodbye army.] at little to no personal
risk.

> The ahnswegh (?) are in credibly powerful and
> since only the regent & his luitenants would be about the only ones able to
> affect an abomination if they chose to attack. You couldn't have gorgon or
> spider or rove just deciding to attack whenever they felt like expanding, They
> could quickly take control of all cerilia.

This is my point. If they can freely leave their countries, there's
nothing to stop the big Awnshegh from conquering the world.

> Abominations are smart and take
> control of countries through manipulation, seduction (of power), and Magical
> charming.

Hmm. I see the Gorgon as a 'crush your enemy to the sound of the
lamentation of his women' type. The Spider has no real magical abilities
- - he is hemmed in by the countries that surround him. He's loose in a
direct physical confrontation with a unit (just overbear him and
imprison him in a cage). I can't see Rhobhe bothering with controlling
humans - it doesn't seem in character.

> Have fun with your abominations but remember that the PC's Should
> never be allowed to destroy them just keep them at bay.



I disagree with this completely. It's a major achievement for PCs to
destroy an Awnshegh, but it should always be possible, otherwise you're
preventing the PCs from ever achieving anything real. Having
undefeatable opponants in an RPG just demoralises the PCs. OTOH this
isn't say that a 1st level PC should be able to kill Tarazin or the
Gorgon, but this should be because those NPCs have the stats they have,
rather than because of DM fiat. If a 1st level fighter fought the Gorgon
and rolled continuous 20s, while Raesene rolled continuous 1s, I'd
change dice :), but after that I'd allow the 1st level PC to kill him.

For example, if your PCs ever manage to defeat the Gorgon [1], just
escalate the scale a bit. Have them unite Anuire and face the Raven &
the Magian, who've seized the eastern half of Cerilia.

On a more realistic scale, I can imagine the PCs in my campaign
eventually going after the Basilisk at 6th level or so. They may not
succeed. But it's possible that they could. And if they did, they'd have
killed him.



neil

[1] Which I can _just_ conceive as being possible for 12-13th level PCs.
They'd have to be very very lucky, and very good too.

[Bryan Ruther]

> > Have fun with your abominations but remember that the PC's Should
> > never be allowed to destroy them just keep them at bay.
>
>
>
> I disagree with this completely. It's a major achievement for PCs to
> destroy an Awnshegh, but it should always be possible, otherwise you're
> preventing the PCs from ever achieving anything real.
>
> [1] Which I can _just_ conceive as being possible for 12-13th level PCs.
> They'd have to be very very lucky, and very good too.

I snipped the pertinent parts of Neil's message out above...
Birthright is (unlike some other campaign words) a dynamic setting. Things
change. Kingdoms rise and fall. Great fortunes are made and lost. And foul
Answeighlien are slain only for new ones to survive. Look in the Blood Enimies
book, many of the poor souls tainted by the blood of Azrai have not been
around that long. Many of them have no means of extended life, and will grow
old and die...in time. Things will change in your campaing, the boarders of
kingdoms will shift. My non birthright campaign has a time frame of about
2500 years during which players have played in different time periods. Players
love seeing the effect of their own characters on a future time. A unique magic
item can forge a temendous link characters of different times. Let things change
then show them that change can also be painful...heheh


- --
Mankind being originally equals in the order of creation,
the equality could only be destroyed by some subsequent
circumstance...
Thomas Paine, Common Sense