BR Hardcover changes

[prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co]

Hmmm, doesn't sound like the planned changes for the July hardcover are that
significant. I would re-evaluate that before it's too late. Most of the
following has been discussed in some form on this board or the old aol board.

1. New warfare system. OK, no cards, but still basically the same (with no
"stacking"-which was the bane of the warcards- I'd assume). Booo, hisss. I'd
rather use the cards if I'm going to that extent. The cards are colorful and
quick. Tweak the stacking rules and it's pretty darn good. Ditch the board
and use the cards as minis and it works even better. Moving dimes around
doesn't thrill me.

Replace this idea with a strategic warfare system. All paper-n-pencil or with
a neat little battle board and round counters ala advanced Kingmaker. Yeh,
Counters with little shields we can put heraldry on, some preprovided ones with
the arms of the Gorgon, Muden, Ariya, the Raven etc. yeah, that's the ticket.
Mainly, I want to roll the dice a couple times, move a few counters on the map
of Khinasi,(or Anuire or whatever) and resolve a war move.

Revive the War Machine rules or give me a boardgame like the GenCon demo. I
want nations to wheel and clash, armies to march and die, ships to sail and sinkcastles to rise and crumble. The present BR rules (including warcards) are
great for roleplaying and resolving the actions of a PC kingdom. It becomes a
horrid mess when 2 or 3 NPC nations clash or when running a "to each his throne"campaign.

2. Clarification about domain turns and actions is good, but the trade route
rule should be officially changed to have a guild (or at the very least an
agreeable holding) on both ends. Every route from a province should occupy a
slot, whether it originally originated from there or not. Turning the screws
down on the TR action is both more realistic and helps game balance.

3. Goblins? Orogs? Yes, yes, yes oh yesssss. Gnomes? no.

4. Gunpowder. *Bang!* ow! ok I'm sorry I brought it up again.

5. Better seige rules to go with #1 above.

Otherwise- don't change a dang thing. Looking forward to more of Tony's art in the July blockbuster.

Randax

[Samuel Weiss]

Definitely a better mass combat sysytem.
And more definition ( read:limits) on things such as increasing domain
size, army size, and a few other things that are currently "whatever you
can afford".
Make the Buld action relevant for other than just roads. Right now, why
should I waste money for a customs building or whatever. It is implied that
something of the sort comes free with law holdings. And if I want to, I'll
just fortify.


Samwise

[DKEvermore]

I just gotta put my two cents in here on the subject of rules
changes/additions for resolving battles.

First, let me say that my players all really love the war card stuff. When
there is a battle coming up in the game they seem very excited
(enthusiasm/fear :). Some of them really like the fact that they can pick up
a card look at the stats and the cool little picture and say 'this is unit'.
Brings a little reality to the game in the sense that since almost none of my
players is a wargamer, this helps them visualize what's going on.

On a personal note, however, I wouldn't mind seeing the options in playing out
these battles increased. Like alternatives for the card resolution and morale
checks. A larger variety of cards describing the effects of spells on the
battlefield. And I'll have to agree with the others here that having fuller
seige warfare rules would be nice.

In essence, what I'm asking for is not greater complication (that'd just bore
my non-wargamer players), but more options to allow my players to be even more
creative with their battle strategy. Every king wants to be like Henry V in
battle. ;)

Thanks,
Dustin Evermore

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Samuel Weiss wrote:

> Definitely a better mass combat sysytem.
> And more definition ( read:limits) on things such as increasing domain
> size, army size, and a few other things that are currently "whatever you
> can afford".
> Make the Buld action relevant for other than just roads. Right now, why
> should I waste money for a customs building or whatever. It is implied that
> something of the sort comes free with law holdings. And if I want to, I'll
> just fortify.

Hey, Ed,
This kind of thing would go well in an "optional rules" sidebar.
Other ideas: siege rules and use of artillerists and siege engines and
sappers to go with the battle rules. Advice on running "magic-rich" and
magic-poor" BR senarios. Goblins and orogs as "optional PC races."
And I agree that more clarity on the Trade Route action would be
distinctly useful.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[Trizt]

On 06-Jan-98, Neil Barnes (nb4769@bristol.ac.uk) wrote about Re: [BIRTHRIGHT]
- - BR Hardcover changes:

- ->On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Randall W. Porter@6550 wrote:
- ->> 4. Gunpowder. *Bang!* ow! ok I'm sorry I brought it up again.
- ->At least Cannon, even if hand-held gunpowder weapons are kept rare.
Please, no that's nothing for a fantasy world... there is alot of SF games you
could play as Shadoerun where you have the fantasy races and gundpowder.

//Trizt of Ward^RITE

-

[Neil Barnes]

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Trizt wrote:
> On 06-Jan-98, Neil Barnes (nb4769@bristol.ac.uk) wrote about Re: [BIRTHRIGHT]
> ->At least Cannon, even if hand-held gunpowder weapons are kept rare.
> Please, no that's nothing for a fantasy world... there is alot of SF games you
> could play as Shadoerun where you have the fantasy races and gundpowder.

SF games - no thanks. I've yet to find one I really like.

Okay. Gunpowder was invented in China in whenever - very early. it was
used in signal rockets in China & India for a long time. It's use in
Cannon in Europe for seiges & naval battles pretty much predates it's
use in effective personal weapons. (Dates anyone? Definately
pre-fifteenth century, but how much earlier?) The absence of Cannon is a
bit of an anachronism (relative to earth) given the technological
sophistication of Anuire & Brechtur.

Just because Gunpowder doesn't feature in Tolkien (who was a blatant
Luddite) & Mallory doesn't rule it out. What about the Three Muskateers
as a source, or the Pirates of the Spanish Main.

neil

[James Ruhland]

> Okay. Gunpowder was invented in China in whenever - very early. it was
> used in signal rockets in China & India for a long time. It's use in
> Cannon in Europe for seiges & naval battles pretty much predates it's
> use in effective personal weapons. (Dates anyone? Definately
> pre-fifteenth century, but how much earlier?) The absence of Cannon is a
> bit of an anachronism (relative to earth) given the technological
> sophistication of Anuire & Brechtur.
>
Dates: not totally accurate [I'd have to go look it up]: gunpowder in China
by around the late 10th century (A.D.), early bombards in Europe & the Mid
East by the late 13th century, getting somewhat more efficient through the
14th and 1st half of the 15th century, then getting pretty effective by
1500.