Rules Clarifications for ED

[Ed Stark]

At 08:03 AM 10/28/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Ed, I'm planning to buy the original, but just for asking, how much is the
>revised version is going to cost? About $34.00?
>
I know it seems pretty petty, but I can't comment on that until the catalog
comes out :-(. Sorry. I will say, no one in the group wanted to release a
revised edition that would cost more than the original ;-).

-- ->-- ->-- ->--@
Ed Stark
Game Designer, Wizards of the Coast/TSR Division
Asst. Brand Manager, BIRTHRIGHT/GREYHAWK/MARVEL Group
TSR Website: http://www.tsrinc.com

[Colleen Simpson]

1. Pikemen: if a unit of pikemen occupies the same square as other unit=
s
, does it also protect those other units from charging cavalry as well =
as itself?

[Glenn Robb]

Oh, come to think of it, I shouldn't have asked the question after all.
Especially since the place where I get all my stuff gives me a discount. =
But
thanks anyway.

=97 Elton Robb

Ed Stark wrote:

> At 08:03 AM 10/28/97 -0700, you wrote:
> >Ed, I'm planning to buy the original, but just for asking, how much is=
the
> >revised version is going to cost? About $34.00?
> >
> I know it seems pretty petty, but I can't comment on that until the cat=
alog
> comes out :-(. Sorry. I will say, no one in the group wanted to release=
a
> revised edition that would cost more than the original ;-).
>
> -- ->-- ->-- ->--@
> Ed Stark
> Game Designer, Wizards of the Coast/TSR Division
> Asst. Brand Manager, BIRTHRIGHT/GREYHAWK/MARVEL Group
> TSR Website: http://www.tsrinc.com
> ************************************************** *********************=
****
> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the =
line
>

[HSteiner1@aol.co]

In einer eMail vom 28.10.97 00:01:01 MEZ, schreiben Sie:

[abeard@zebra.net (Adam B]

HSteiner1@aol.com wrote:
>
> In einer eMail vom 28.10.97 00:01:01 MEZ, schreiben Sie:
>
>
> I have a request. If anyone has any rules from the BR basic set they'd like
> clarified, please post them to this list by replying to this subject. As
> you know, I'm working on a revised edition of BR, and I'd like to make an
> effort to clarify the rules as best I can.
> >>
>
> I have written some rules about replenishing the number bodyguards for
> rulers, via rulebook you get only a minimal starting reservoir of
> bodyguards, and hey, sometimes they get killed...
>
> If you (or somebody else) are interested i can post them.
> Give me some time, i have to translate them from german, english is
> not my native language... (ah, nobody guessed it ;-)
>
> I have more rules about getting lieutnants, the make-up of
> the thugs of every guild holding, spell research, magical item
> research and receipts and about improving army units through
> experience and training.
>
> One question to Ed: What is the range for domain actions?
> Silly question at first, but think about it; Can i, as the lord mage
> of Roesone, while sitting in my tower in abbatuor, do a
> "create holding" in the drachenward?
> IMC we have found one solutions with using a range of two
> provinces for your influence, but whats the "official" solution?
>
> Aedric Maeras
> Lord Mage of Roesone
> Undead Master
>
> ######################################
> Holger Steiner
> Programmer & Object-Technology Consultant
> HSteiner1@aol.com
> http://members.aol.com/HSteiner1
> Only the code gets executed, not the intentions...
> ######################################
>
> ************************************************** *************************
> > I would be interested in those rules. (English please)

[James Ruhland]

i have to translate them from german, english is
> not my native language... (ah, nobody guessed
>
We'd never guess it from, say:
> In einer eMail vom 28.10.97 00:01:01 MEZ, schreiben Sie:
>
which showed up in your last message, for example 8-)
>
> I have written some rules about replenishing the number bodyguards for
> rulers, via rulebook you get only a minimal starting reservoir of
> bodyguards, and hey, sometimes they get killed...
>
> If you (or somebody else) are interested i can post them.
> Give me some time,it ;-)

Might be interesting, at least for thouse of you who get your guards killed
off and can't replace 'em with JuJu Zombies (covered in suitable permanent
illusions so they don't make home sweet home look like a crypt.)
>
> I have more rules about getting lieutnants, the make-up of
> the thugs of every guild holding, spell research, magical item
> research and receipts and about improving army units through
> experience and training.
>
Sounds cool.
>
> One question to Ed: What is the range for domain actions?
> Silly question at first, but think about it; Can i, as the lord mage
> of Roesone, while sitting in my tower in abbatuor, do a
> "create holding" in the drachenward?
> IMC we have found one solutions with using a range of two
> provinces for your influence, but whats the "official" solution?
>
That *is* a good question. I'd say the range was more than two provinces,
but you're right that it shouldn't be all the way to Drachenward, either.
Probably somewhere within the range of sea trade routes (say, 15 provinces,
instead of 30 sea areas). That allows you influence within the "region"
(the fishbowl) that your character interacts with most often, without being
global.

Tripp wrote:

> would argue that if it is possible to pick up an Azrai related
> bloodline through usurpation, then it should be just as easy to gain any
> other bloodline. If I have a tainted Reynir Bloodline[Remember, I like
> wolves] with a strength of 5, and I happen to off somebody with a Great
> Bloodline of Anduiras with a Strength of 70, then it ought to be fairly
> like that the Anduiras Bloodline will overwhelm my feeble Reynir one.

If you used a Tighmaevril to do so (and thus gained about 35 points), I
agree with you. If you just gutted the blighter with your pigsticker, hmmm,
with that range of difference, I'd have to agree with you, too (70/5=12,
more than double your original bloodline). How about that? If you gain more
than double your starting bloodline level, you should pick up the aspect of
the other bloodline. Anywhere between your own bloodline and double (in
this case, from 5-9), their should be a chance to get "converted", perhaps.
Dk, depends on how complicated folks want to make this.

Oh, their has been a lot of talk related to this thread (bloodtaint etc) of
folks who start off good, or neutral, and commit evil acts, etc. They (and
their DMs) should remember the stuff on P. 48 about losses of regency (easy
to forget; players, no doubt, won't let you forget the various ways they
can gain strength, but few are eager to remind you of the latter).
Penalties for changing alignment can be pretty severe, and even alignment
infractions aint a picknick.

Brings me to a rule clarification: You can loose a lot of RPs and BPs by
this rule, so I made the following interpretations: 1) if you vollentarily
transfer a holding or holdings to another regent, you do not loose anything
(vollentarily means willingly, too--not compelled to do so by spells, etc.
Though intimidation might be a grey area. I tended to fudge there depending
on how vollentary it was). 2) if 0-level holdings are destroyed, you lose
nothing (unless it is a 0-level guild holding with a TR attached). They
tend to come and go a lot, and I decided anything that ephemeral shouldn't
drain a regent too much (stuff you haven't invested much time and effort
in; which is why the rule is slightly different for 0-level guilds; if you
built a TR from 'em, you've invested enough effort to make loosing it
hurt.). Disbanding your own holdings comes under the vollentary divestiture
and 0-level rules, too. (if you disband 'em cause you're forced to, you
still suffer the penalty, unless they were 0-level outposts.) Note to PBeM
DMs (since a lot of 'em seem to be out there): I'd recomend that you
(continue) to ignore this rule (bloodline losses), 'cause without
adventures players don't have the oportunity to gain BPs as easily, anyhow,
so the "ballance" this provides isn't required. Might be something to keep
in mind if people start to acumulate a lot of RPs, though; could use the
rule for RP loss only (leaving the bloodline intact). That would keep
players from acumulating a rediculous amount of Regency Points (thus
balancing the system.)

[hobbychest@pcsia.co]

BI>> would argue that if it is possible to pick up an Azrai related
BI>> bloodline through usurpation, then it should be just as easy to gain any
BI>> other bloodline. If I have a tainted Reynir Bloodline[Remember, I like
BI>> wolves] with a strength of 5, and I happen to off somebody with a Great
BI>> Bloodline of Anduiras with a Strength of 70, then it ought to be fairly
BI>> like that the Anduiras Bloodline will overwhelm my feeble Reynir one.

BI>If you used a Tighmaevril to do so (and thus gained about 35 points), I
BI>agree with you. If you just gutted the blighter with your pigsticker, hmmm,
BI>with that range of difference, I'd have to agree with you, too (70/5=12,
BI>more than double your original bloodline). How about that? If you gain more
BI>than double your starting bloodline level, you should pick up the aspect of
BI>the other bloodline. Anywhere between your own bloodline and double (in
BI>this case, from 5-9), their should be a chance to get "converted", perhaps.
BI>Dk, depends on how complicated folks want to make this.

I actually keep track of individual bloodline parts. A character could
have 3 points of Azrai blood, 2 points of Basia and 10 Anduiras. I use
a simple majority rules system. Bloodline shifts if you gain blood of
another line (through bloodtheft) that is makes it greater than the
others. In the example the character has an Anduiras bloodline but if
they gained 8 points of blood through bloodtheft of an Azrai line, they
would become of Azrai blood. Of course the players were never told
this, they just noticed effects when there is a shift. I make a gradual
change, as their old powers fade out and new ones begin to appear. I
know this is more complicated than some systems, but it worked fine for
me.

Robert Thomson

[Bernard S Missey]

Okay Ed. Maybe I am completely missing it, but what happens to troops that
survive a battle? How long does it take to get their full numbers back,
how much does it cost, etc. I haven't seemed to be able to find this in
the books. Does anyone know?

Thanks in advance.

Steev

[voelkman]

Hi Ed!

Got a few points you should consider for your revised BR rules:

1) The old problem concerning elves and investiture. I see there are a
few fixes but why not solving this little problem in your revision

2) The warcard battle system lacks a few more examples concerning charge,
fall backs and special abilities (pikemen protecting other units, etc.)

3) Please clarify actions like engagement and charge (I had to read it
several times to get it right) Even now I'm not sure about it.

4) IMHO, you should add something to limit the amount of friendly troops
occupying the same area.

Best regards,

Manni

[voelkman]

Hi Ed,

I got an additional point for your updated rules (even if it does not
concern the rulebook itself)

I went through Havens of the Great Bay once more and realized that in
spite of RoE and SotS no information about individual fortifications and
fortified holdings can be found. (e.g. Danigau ought to have
fortifications and at least one castle to protect the land against the
gorgon; only in the discription of Berhagen mentions fortified law
holdings)

O.K., it may be, that I'm blind or stupid, so I missed information
concerning this. Perhaps you (or somebody else) let me know, if I am to
make up this missing piece of information myself or where anything about
this can be found.

If this problem has been discussed in this list, would someone do me a
favour and mail appropriate messages to me (as most people will be glad
not to get old info)

Thanks in advance

Best,

Manni

[Tripp Elliott]

Ok, here's a similar question.

In Cities of the Sun and the Naval Rules supplements, the Naval rules
are backfitted to Anuirea by providing trade route and naval strength
information for the various Anuirean Nations with one glaring exception:
Mieres. Surely, being situated where it is, and being dependant on
trade as it is, we can assume Mieres has a navy and a trade route or
two.

Is there an official word on these facts?

Thanx,

Tripp

[Neil Barnes]

On Mon, 10 Nov 1997, Ed Stark wrote:
> Right or not, we chose to exclude specific information (like
> fortifications, roads, etc) about domains in the Campaign Expansions unless
> absolutely necessary (the law holdings in Berhagen are a good example) so
> that the DM could build off the existing information without overruling
> anything in print. The Domain Sourcebooks (some of them) list this more
> specific information, because we figured if you wanted to buy a DS on a
> particular realm, you really, really wanted our take on the place.

This is one of my big BR gripes - most of the DSs I've read have been
really bad for trying to find specific information about the provinces.
Castle levels, trade routes, income, upkeep, army size etc. My player
who's actually got a DS (Ariya) keeps on having to refer back to the
Cities of the Sun.

The other is about the city layouts. Ariya has a really nice map, that
looks vaguely like a real city. Ilien (and apparantly Endier, based on
the commnts of the Thief regent in the campaign I'm playing in) don't.
Ilien looks like a splot.

I mean lets consider Southern European cities - you've got Nice, Monaco,
Venice, Naples, Rome and loads of others - all cities with a real
personality. Cities don't just get built, they appear at places because
they've got defensive posiotions controlling important trade routes and
the like. They expand over time, outgrowing their city walls. They've
got odd buildings, statues, sewer systems, canals, great squares. Every
major historical city is special in loads of ways and the BR cities just
don't feel like that.

Okay, rant over.

neil

[hobbychest@pcsia.co]

BI>The other is about the city layouts. Ariya has a really nice map, that
BI>looks vaguely like a real city. Ilien (and apparantly Endier, based on
BI>the commnts of the Thief regent in the campaign I'm playing in) don't.
BI>Ilien looks like a splot.

BI>I mean lets consider Southern European cities - you've got Nice, Monaco,
BI>Venice, Naples, Rome and loads of others - all cities with a real
BI>personality. Cities don't just get built, they appear at places because
BI>they've got defensive posiotions controlling important trade routes and
BI>the like. They expand over time, outgrowing their city walls. They've
BI>got odd buildings, statues, sewer systems, canals, great squares. Every
BI>major historical city is special in loads of ways and the BR cities just
BI>don't feel like that.

These cities also had hundreds or thousands of years to develop, and
thousands of people developing it. It is much harder to make a city up
from scratch and have that much individual detail. I tip my hat to
Anne, Carrie, Ed, and company over there for the fine job they are
doing. (Well, I would if I was wearing a hat.) BR has the most
realistic feel of any TSR game world. Even though it is fantasy, the
fantasy elements blend instead of overwealm the world. I hope they can
keep producing at the level they have put products out.

Robert Thomson

[FRANKEN*RC]

> BI>The other is about the city layouts. Ariya has a really nice
map, that
> BI>looks vaguely like a real city. Ilien (and apparantly Endier, based on
> BI>the commnts of the Thief regent in the campaign I'm playing in) don't.
> BI>Ilien looks like a splot.
>
If i remember corectly both Endier and Ilien are relatively new
cities, which have grown explosive because of their liberal attitude,
they just haven't got enough time to build a "character".
For Endier another thing plays too, it borders the spiderfell, the
city must maintain it's wall. And Diemed also doesn't look favourably
on it.

Ronald

[Neil Barnes]

On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, FRANKEN*RC wrote:
> If i remember corectly both Endier and Ilien are relatively new
> cities, which have grown explosive because of their liberal attitude,
> they just haven't got enough time to build a "character".
> For Endier another thing plays too, it borders the spiderfell, the
> city must maintain it's wall. And Diemed also doesn't look favourably
> on it.

Ilien is supposed to be one of the earliest Andu settlements in Cerillia
IIRC. And I don't know enough to argue about Endier (I can't read the
stuff while we're still playing in that area :P - I've had Sword of
Roele & Warlock of the Stonecrowns for over a year now & not been able
to touch them). Even if the city had undergone explosive growht
recently, that should be refelect in the layout. Old settlements tend to
be in very good positions - natural habours, very strong defensive etc,
especially when you're dealing with genocidal elves.

neil

[Neil Barnes]

On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, FRANKEN*RC wrote:
> Well you could always make your own maps if you don't like the ones
> that are provided, some of my player regents have made their own maps
> of their capitol cities (okay with me keeping an eye on them).

Which is what I did. Now I still need the money for a major series of
civic improvements. Paving the city centre for one thing :)

neil