Alternate Spy Network Rules--LO

[Bryon Switala]

At 08:15 PM 10/8/97 -0400, you wrote:

Since I mostly play Guilders I'll only comment on Guilds and Law.

>CREATE COVERT HOLDING
>Covert guilds can also be covertly Ruled (as x3 the regular cost), but only
if there >is "space" availble for that holding type. Law holdings are the
exception to this >rule (see below).

What happens when the regent that owns the land trys to rule his/her own
holding levels up? Or does this not effect the max level of holding,
because the spy network does not get gold and regency from this holding?


>COVERT ACTIONS
> -Basic intellegence.
> -Espionage. The regent can spend 1 GB to gain an espionage action
>as a free activity in that province.

Does that mean that I get an extra action over and above my thre and my
lieutenants one?

> -Underground Trade Route. If a covert guild is not adjacent to
>other holdings, an underground trade route must be established to connect
>the two if anything other than information is to be passed between them.
>Setting up an underground trade route costs the same as a regular trade
>route if a roadb or river exists linking the two holdings,

How about a sea route?

>If used for smuggling, the route generates half the gold that a regular
trade route >would make between the same two provinces. This can be combined
with a regular >trade route to increase profitability, but if so, the
regular guild holdings are >detected as covert holdings, which may alert
regents of nefarious practices.

Now you just threw the limit on trade route to and from a province out the
window?

>Covert Law Holdings.
> -Military espionage. Activating the covert law holding reveals the
>location and movements of troops in and around the province as though
>there were a scout troop in the province.

O.K. that sounds ok, but I still am wondering about holding level maxes and
number of regents that can have holding in a province. I see everyone
wanting to create a spy network in Anuire City.

> -Usurp loyalty. The traitorous nobles may attempt to convince
>others to join them in their treachery. This can actually "steal" control

I think if a province ruler didn't obey the Regent all hell would break lose.

> -Turncoat. The traitorous nobles can throw their lot in with their
>true master, defecting and taking their troops with them. A zero-level
>turncoat will take one infantry or cavalry unit from the former regent's

Since when does a province control Troops? Most are
controlled/raised/maintained by the regent.

I have to talk about this too:

>COUNTER-ESPIONAGE
>-Guilders and rogue-class lieutennants detect covert holdings as such:
> -law: 10 / 0 / 25
> -guild: 5 / 0 / 10
> -temple: 15 / 10 / 20

I feel even if inactive there should be a slight chance the regent hear
rumors about enemy agents in the realm.

> -if a regent spends an action, or a lieutennant responds as if to
>
>Home Agents cost 5 GB to set up.

I can create a leutenant for less then this?

>The set up period can be accomplished at a rate of 1d6 GB per domain turn
>(season). The HA counts as a lieutennant in terms of determining how many
>lieutennants a regent can have,

I didn't know there was a limit.

>Once set up, the HA requires an operating budget of 2 GB per domain turn.
Every >combination of 1 GB and 1 RP spent beyond this basic level both
increases the >HA's ability to detect covert holdings by 10 percent, AND
increases the difficulty >of any Espionage actions taken against the regent
by +2.

This is getting more expensive then the setting up of the network.

> -Home Agents use the following chart for their ability to detect
>covert holdings.
> -law: 15 / 10 / 40
> -guild: 20 / 5 / 20
> -temple: 25 / 15 / 30

Ohh I see now the last chart was without a counter intel group. Got it, like it.

>Well, that's my post. Those of you who wish may feel free to post it to
>whatever web pages you feel appropriate.

Something like this might work in a PBEM game. [hint, hint-Ian ;-)]

I think my biggest worry is people abusing this system, or the DM making it
next to impossible to get accurate, reliable, and timely info.


Bryon

***********************************
Well the Question has been answered. Kind of---

I'm a Twirp, no longer, now I am merely a powerful nuisance. ::and the
crowd cheers::

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Bryon Switala wrote:

>
> What happens when the regent that owns the land trys to rule his/her own
> holding levels up? Or does this not effect the max level of holding,
> because the spy network does not get gold and regency from this holding?
>

That's a good question, and one I didn't think of until I was working on
the law part. For zero-level holdings, this doesn't matter, because
zero-level holdings don't count against the number of "different" holding
owners a province can have. It's a more interesting question if a regent
attempts to covertly rule up a covert holding--which can be done according
to these rules, if there is an opening. I think you could handle it in one
of two ways: either when someone else rules up in a way that would
conflict with the level-limits the covert holding is automatically
revealed, or the covert holder gives up his slot and drops back down to a
zero-level holding and remains covert. You are right: a zero-level holding
provides no gold or RP for the holder, but still costs maintenance. A
regent may be able to make money selling his intellegence, but that should
be handled differently: through diplomacy or role-playing.

>
> >COVERT ACTIONS
> > -Basic intellegence.
> > -Espionage. The regent can spend 1 GB to gain an espionage action
> >as a free activity in that province.
>
> Does that mean that I get an extra action over and above my thre and my
> lieutenants one?
>

Yes, but at a pretty hefty price. You pay the money to set it up, and the
maintenance, and then must pay 1 GB for every covert holding you wish to
get espionage out of. Plus, if the victim is paying attention, its not too
unlikely that he will detect you eventually. Then he can start feeding you
misinformation if he wishes (this should have been mentioned in the
Counter-espionage section).

> > -Underground Trade Route. If a covert guild is not adjacent to
> >other holdings, an underground trade route must be established to connect
> >the two if anything other than information is to be passed between them.
> >Setting up an underground trade route costs the same as a regular trade
> >route if a roadb or river exists linking the two holdings,
>
> How about a sea route?
>

Handle it the same as above: but you still need to own the ship.

> >If used for smuggling, the route generates half the gold that a regular
> trade route >would make between the same two provinces. This can be combined
> with a regular >trade route to increase profitability, but if so, the
> regular guild holdings are >detected as covert holdings, which may alert
> regents of nefarious practices.
>
> Now you just threw the limit on trade route to and from a province out the
> window?
>

In effect, yes. But its not a very profitable propasition: it costs the
same as a regular trade route, but provides only half the gold. Plus it
draws attention to the covert holdings it operates out of, so if the
regent is paying attention at all, it only has a limited life. I suspect
these would turn out to be unprofitable as often as not, due to the costs
of setting up the covert guilds necessary to run them at both ends, and
the chances of rulers finding out about them and stamping them out are
fairly good, esp. if they pay for a Home Agent.

> >Covert Law Holdings.
> > -Military espionage. Activating the covert law holding reveals the
> >location and movements of troops in and around the province as though
> >there were a scout troop in the province.
>
> O.K. that sounds ok, but I still am wondering about holding level maxes and
> number of regents that can have holding in a province. I see everyone
> wanting to create a spy network in Anuire City.
>

I would expect so! That would be a natural area to gather all kinds of
relevant information. And remember: zero-level holdings do not count
against the limit of how many different holders can hold in a province.

> > -Usurp loyalty. The traitorous nobles may attempt to convince
> >others to join them in their treachery. This can actually "steal" control
>
> I think if a province ruler didn't obey the Regent all hell would break lose.
>

That's pretty much the idea. Once revealed, the covert law pretty much
needs to either turn coat or get squelched by the regent. At some times,
however, this may be useful enough to make it worth the cost: say the
covert holder needs to stop the completion of a castle being built in the
province, but is not yet quite ready to attack yet. He has his loyal man
(the covert law holding) go bandit and steal the money which would be used
for the building. The bandit then prepairs to turn coat if the regent
sends his men to find out who the bandit is.

> > -Turncoat. The traitorous nobles can throw their lot in with their
> >true master, defecting and taking their troops with them. A zero-level
> >turncoat will take one infantry or cavalry unit from the former regent's
>
> Since when does a province control Troops? Most are
> controlled/raised/maintained by the regent.

True, but they still have free will. The idea is that the traitorous ruler
used his influence and persuasion to change the loyalties of the unit's
commanders. This probably should require a roll: 10 or better on a d20
less the difference between the covert law level and the level of "loyal"
law holdings in the province.

>
> I have to talk about this too:
>
> >COUNTER-ESPIONAGE
> >-Guilders and rogue-class lieutennants detect covert holdings as such:
> > -law: 10 / 0 / 25
> > -guild: 5 / 0 / 10
> > -temple: 15 / 10 / 20
>
> I feel even if inactive there should be a slight chance the regent hear
> rumors about enemy agents in the realm.
>

Sure. Give them a small chance if you would like. But they still should
not be as good at it as a specialist.

> > -if a regent spends an action, or a lieutennant responds as if to
> >
> >Home Agents cost 5 GB to set up.
>
> I can create a leutenant for less then this?

Sure. But to get the better chance to detect covert activities, you need
to pay the dough. Any monetary arraingement between lieutennants and
regents is solely due to role-playing, not mandated by the rules. I expect
it would usually be a LOT less than this unless the lieutennant is a
wizard.

>
> >The set up period can be accomplished at a rate of 1d6 GB per domain turn
> >(season). The HA counts as a lieutennant in terms of determining how many
> >lieutennants a regent can have,
>
> I didn't know there was a limit.

Yes, the limit of henchmen a character can obtain based on Charisma. It
mentions this in the Rulebook.

>
> >Once set up, the HA requires an operating budget of 2 GB per domain turn.
> Every >combination of 1 GB and 1 RP spent beyond this basic level both
> increases the >HA's ability to detect covert holdings by 10 percent, AND
> increases the difficulty >of any Espionage actions taken against the regent
> by +2.
>
> This is getting more expensive then the setting up of the network.
>

Well, this is just off-the-cuff stuff, and hasn't been playtested yet. If
it makes more sense, reduce the cost to 1 gb per season. However, the Home
Agent is able to operate in every province that the regent has holdings,
which is a pretty wide scope. Some other ideas to tweak to help achieve
parity: increase the penalty against other regents doing espionage in
those provinces, allow the HA a chance to defeat assasination and intrigue
random events, give the regent a 1RP bonus whenever his Home Agent defeats
an important rival.

> > -Home Agents use the following chart for their ability to detect
> >covert holdings.
> > -law: 15 / 10 / 40
> > -guild: 20 / 5 / 20
> > -temple: 25 / 15 / 30
>
> Ohh I see now the last chart was without a counter intel group. Got it, like it.
>
> >Well, that's my post. Those of you who wish may feel free to post it to
> >whatever web pages you feel appropriate.
>
> Something like this might work in a PBEM game. [hint, hint-Ian ;-)]
>
> I think my biggest worry is people abusing this system, or the DM making it
> next to impossible to get accurate, reliable, and timely info.
>

Well, that's always the problem, and you can never really know until you
try. If anyone uses these rules in their game, I would appreciate hearing
how it works, and what changes are recommended. Another way to gather
information is by setting up a Bard College in your province: that way you
have an excellent chance of getting all the regular information in your
area, and some change to get hold of some "secrets." You can use the
Build Monument domain action described in the Netbook for this.

Actually, it was sort of intended for PBeM, since I recently moved away
from a long-standing BR game and am now trying to convert it to that
format to keep it going. That way we can get together for a table-top game
whenever I'm back home, and we can do "normal" adventures.

Thanks for the comments. It always helps to know what you forgot to add or
overlooked.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu