Dragons

[Martijn Buijs]

Ed Stark wrote:
I know of four living Cerilian dragons that are (or have been) in
published material, but that's just off the top of my head. Little
BR quiz--can you name and place the four I'm thinking of? Are there
more?

1) Tarazin the Gray, the mightiest dragon on Cerilia.
He could probably kick the Gorgon's butt in single combat.
Sleeps somewhere in the Drachenaur mountains.
From Dragon 218.

2) Zakhur Lifesbane, Guardian of the Five Peaks
From Dragon 230

3) Komassa, a Cerilian dracolich in service of the Warlock
From Warlock of the Stonecrowns

I don't remember other dragons that are still alive.
Quite a few dead ones are mentioned, though:

Weyrzak (Dragon 230)
Mother of Zakhur Lifesbane, died from wounds she
received at Deismaar, still haunts the Five Peaks as
some sort of spirit (but that doesn't really count,
does it?)

Nargest (Dragon 230)
Adurian stonedragon; slain at Deismaar by Weyrzak.

Azakadazar (Dragon 218)
Slain at Deismaar by Tarazin the Gray; defended the
dwarves of Khurin Azur against Tarazin's onslaught,
but failed.

Raizhadik (Dragon 218)
Slain by Raesene in Kal-Saitharak just after Deismaar.

Infyrna (Dragon 218)
Killed by Tarazin the Gray in Merasaf.

The dragon of Tuarhievel (DS)
Killed by human adventurers.

Saeryk the Warlock (W of the Stonecrowns)
Also knoown as the Wyrm, this abomination can take the shape of
a shadow dragon. But I don't think he counts, either... He is
still alive, though.

So, what's that fourth dragon you were talking about, Ed?

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::
::: :::
::: I sense that living human beings dwell below my feet :::
::: An important source of protein - you are what you eat! :::
::: :::
::: Carnivore :::
::: :::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::
::: Martijn Buijs - martijn7@pi.net :::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

[Neil Barnes]

On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Anthony K.G.Shewan wrote:
> Dragons are
> great I like dragons, the game is called Advanced Dungeons & Dragons for a
> reason, but dragons are not and never have been divine. Can dragons have
> bloodlines? Sure, the designers have given Bloodlines to a wild pig and a
> wolf why not a dragon.

I'd just like to add that the purpose of Dragons in just about every
story in which they turn up is to be brutally slaughtered by the hero
in order to prove his general status as a bloke-whose-pint-should-not-
be-spilled.

AD&D players seem to have a fetish for turning them into unbeatable
things. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be hard, but I kind of prefer
Smaug (big lizard sleeping on a pile of treasure who just burns things
when he gets annoyed) to some of the scheming arch-mage wannabes
currently appearing in Dragon.

So far Cerilian Dragons have been getting the mix pretty much right, so
I'm happy...

neil

[relve@Otdk.Helsinki.F]

> On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Anthony K.G.Shewan wrote:
> > Dragons are
> > great I like dragons, the game is called Advanced Dungeons & Dragons for a
> > reason, but dragons are not and never have been divine. Can dragons have
> > bloodlines? Sure, the designers have given Bloodlines to a wild pig and a
> > wolf why not a dragon.

Mhmmm... In as far as I can remember these designers have also
denied the dragons of the divine spark. Tarzin the Grey (or was it
the dragon who crashed in Five Peaks?), for example, who survived the
explosion at Deismaar, was "merely" stunned and did not got any
divine essence.

Kaarel

[Tim Nutting]

> Mhmmm... In as far as I can remember these designers have also
> denied the dragons of the divine spark. Tarzin the Grey (or was it
> the dragon who crashed in Five Peaks?), for example, who survived the
> explosion at Deismaar, was "merely" stunned and did not got any
> divine essence.

Again, alignment is eveything. Tarizin spent half the battle on Azrai's
side, and then switched (I think). He was in the neutral ground, a fence
rider, and thus didn't get anything (oh well)

Tim

[David Sean Brown]

>
> Again, alignment is eveything. Tarizin spent half the battle on Azrai's
> side, and then switched (I think). He was in the neutral ground, a fence
> rider, and thus didn't get anything (oh well)

Now, I had been under the impression that alignment meant nothing as far
as bloodline went. Your bloodline (originally) was determined by your
proximity to the exploding gods..of course most people were generqally
closer to their own, and hence alignments sort of fit, but in a melee that
big, I can't see how it is possible that EVERYONE would have rceived the
essence of his/her own god. And of course, as you pass on your bloodline,
there is no guarantee that you progeny will be the same alignment as
you..it is quite feasable to have soomone of evil alignment with the blood
of Anduiras, as wel as someone good with the blood of Azrai.

Sean

[Daniel McSorley]

>> Again, alignment is eveything. Tarizin spent half the battle on Azrai's
>> side, and then switched (I think). He was in the neutral ground, a fence
>> rider, and thus didn't get anything (oh well)
>
>Now, I had been under the impression that alignment meant nothing as far
>as bloodline went. Your bloodline (originally) was determined by your
>proximity to the exploding gods..of course most people were generqally
>closer to their own, and hence alignments sort of fit, but in a melee that
>big, I can't see how it is possible that EVERYONE would have rceived the
>essence of his/her own god. And of course, as you pass on your bloodline,
>there is no guarantee that you progeny will be the same alignment as
>you..it is quite feasable to have soomone of evil alignment with the blood
>of Anduiras, as wel as someone good with the blood of Azrai.
>
You're right, alignment makes no difference now. I kind of think it
would have back then. People received bloodlines from the deity they were
associated with, I thought. I'd think they would have been more likely to
be associated with the deity of their race, and neccessarily have been of
that deity's related alignments.
Yes, they did stand closer to their deity. But I think that distance
really made no difference. Dragons can't have bloodlines :), but if they
could, Tarazin wouldn't have received one because he was wishy washy in his
sides, not because he was neutral in alignment.
Daniel McSorley
mcsorley.1@osu.edu
ICQ:5299865
AIM:DanMcS

[Gary V. Foss]

Daniel McSorley wrote:

> >> Again, alignment is eveything. Tarizin spent half the battle on Azrai's
> >> side, and then switched (I think). He was in the neutral ground, a fence
> >> rider, and thus didn't get anything (oh well)
> >
> >Now, I had been under the impression that alignment meant nothing as far
> >as bloodline went. Your bloodline (originally) was determined by your
> >proximity to the exploding gods..of course most people were generqally
> >closer to their own, and hence alignments sort of fit, but in a melee that
> >big, I can't see how it is possible that EVERYONE would have rceived the
> >essence of his/her own god. And of course, as you pass on your bloodline,
> >there is no guarantee that you progeny will be the same alignment as
> >you..it is quite feasable to have soomone of evil alignment with the blood
> >of Anduiras, as wel as someone good with the blood of Azrai.
> >
> You're right, alignment makes no difference now. I kind of think it
> would have back then. People received bloodlines from the deity they were
> associated with, I thought. I'd think they would have been more likely to
> be associated with the deity of their race, and neccessarily have been of
> that deity's related alignments.
> Yes, they did stand closer to their deity. But I think that distance
> really made no difference. Dragons can't have bloodlines :), but if they
> could, Tarazin wouldn't have received one because he was wishy washy in his
> sides, not because he was neutral in alignment.

>From my reading, I got the impression that alignment had little or nothing to do
with receiving a bloodline. The only influence it had was where one was likely
to be standing when the gods went nuclear. In fact, I thought distance had
everything to do with getting a bloodline and its relative strength. The reason
Haelyn became a god was because he was standing right next to Anduiras at the
crucial moment. The same is true for the rest of the deities and their
followers.

As for dragons having bloodlines. I've heard some interesting arguments on
either side. Personally, I don't see why a dragon can't have a bloodline. In
fact, it makes as much (more) sense as (than) a boar or a wolf having one. As
for why a dragon would lay low about it for the past fifteen hundred years...
well, dragons are pretty private, inscrutable creatures, eh? Especially
Cerilian ones. Cerilian dragons make Cerilian elves look like guests on the
Jerry Springer show.

It seems to me I read in one Awnsheigh description or the other that it gained
its bloodline through bloodtheft (or added to its bloodline) not by stabbing a
scion/regent through the heart but by swallowing the poor sod whole. A dragon
would be able to do this. It might even get a kick out of it.

- -G.

[Phil Burge]

There are at least two 'possible' dragons mentioned in BR with the
ability to control sources. The first is The Dragon of the Drachenward
(HotGB) and the second is Vore Lekiniskiy (TotHW). Whether they have
bloodlines is up to the individual DM, however I cannot see any reason
why they should not if they were present at Deismaar. The reason Tarazin
and other dragons are not blooded could simply be because of their magic
resistance. Dragons are naturally resistant to magic and therefore in
the majority of cases the magical essence of the Gods probably just slid
off them like water off a duck. In some cases however the essence of the
Gods could have overcome the Dragon's resistance and imbued them with
Divine power. Remember MR resists all magic, not just harmful magic.

Just my thoughts, Phil.

[Keyplate72]

>Again, alignment is eveything. Tarizen spent half the battle on Azrai's
>side, and then switched (I think). He was in the neutral ground, a fence
> rider, and thus didn't get anything (oh well)

Maybe it was not that Tarizen was a "fence rider," so much as a "fence flyer."

I recall reading in Blood Enemies?? that the gods stood on these huge rocks
(don't recall the name). So as they gave up their astrial forms they actually
stood close to the ground. Now I think it's fairly understood how the divine
essence, in the form of "blood," is tied to the ground. (Only scions accepted
by the land to rule, etc).

Is it possible the essence of the "exploding" gods just didn't make it to far
in the air?
Thus a flying dragon (I assume Cerillian dragons are flyers, and would be
during a battle) would have less of a chance of being hit by any of the
diviness.

Hope this makes a bit of sense
BSS

[Daniel McSorley]

>There are at least two 'possible' dragons mentioned in BR with the
>ability to control sources. The first is The Dragon of the Drachenward
>(HotGB) and the second is Vore Lekiniskiy (TotHW
OK, I've heard this before, I know about the "Dragon," but who is Vore
Lekinskiy? Could someone give me a page number? I've read all of Tribes,
and just scanned it, but obviously I missed it.
Daniel McSorley
mcsorley.1@osu.edu
ICQ:5299865
AIM:DanMcS

[LordSchmit]

>As for dragons having bloodlines. I've heard some interesting arguments on
>either side. Personally, I don't see why a dragon can't have a bloodline.
In
>fact, it makes as much (more) sense as (than) a boar or a wolf having one.

This is a quote from the Dragon magazine article "Tarazin the Gray" by Rich
Baker:

"Like the other surviving dragons, Tarazin was completely immune to the divine
explosion that created bloodlines of power among humans and other survivors."

I think Rich made it pretty clear. Dragons were immune to the Deismaar
explosion, so Cerilian Dragons do not have bloodlines. They don't need them
either. Cerilian Dragons are powerful enough as it is already.

[Gary V. Foss]

LordSchmit wrote:

> >As for dragons having bloodlines. I've heard some interesting arguments on
> >either side. Personally, I don't see why a dragon can't have a bloodline.
> In
> >fact, it makes as much (more) sense as (than) a boar or a wolf having one.
>
> This is a quote from the Dragon magazine article "Tarazin the Gray" by Rich
> Baker:
>
> "Like the other surviving dragons, Tarazin was completely immune to the divine
> explosion that created bloodlines of power among humans and other survivors."
>
> I think Rich made it pretty clear. Dragons were immune to the Deismaar
> explosion, so Cerilian Dragons do not have bloodlines. They don't need them
> either. Cerilian Dragons are powerful enough as it is already.

Ah, but the question is WHY should they be immune? I'm sure we could say
something about their innate magical abilities throwing off the power of the gods
or something, but that seems a little weak to me. We're talking about the power
of the gods here. Dragons are powerful creatures, but I don't think even they can
really compete with the Powers.

I think a dragon is just as capable of gaining a bloodline as an elf, a human, a
dwarf, a halfling, a wolf, a crocodile, a pig or a lich. Why not? In fact, a
blooded dragon might make for a pretty terrifying awnsheigh, eh? The blood of
Azrai coursing through its veins might cause the creature to mutate into a
horrific monster the likes of which would send the mightiest of heroes fleeing
like children....

As for dragons being powerful enough already: Well, as a DM I don't know that I
have a really big problem with dragons gaining a bloodline and casting realm
spells. In fact, it sounds like a pretty good way to spook the players and keep
their mitts off of certain areas that I don't want them to get into.

- -G.

[Gary V. Foss]

MANTA wrote:

> Dragons could have not been blessed (or cursed...) with bloodlines because
> they have Magic Resistance.( This does not imply however that they cannot
> have gained one through bloodtheft as someone suggested.).
>
> MANTA

Magic resistance could make them resistant to gaining a bloodline at Deismar,
but I don't think it would make them immune. First, a dragon's MR can vary.
Second, I'm not so sure that MR is something that would stop the power of the
gods. Dwarves have MR, but they also have bloodlines.

- -G.

[Wrb41977]

Yes, and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a dragon in Leninsky who has
source holdings?

[Phil Burge]

Vore Lekiniskiy is mentioned on page 24 of the players chronicle of
TotHW as well as elsewhere in the supplement. He was woken from his
slumber by one of the Raven's armys.

Phil.

[MANTA]

Dragons could have not been blessed (or cursed...) with bloodlines because
they have Magic Resistance.( This does not imply however that they cannot
have gained one through bloodtheft as someone suggested.).

MANTA

- ----------
> From: LordSchmit
> To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Dragons
> Date: quarta-feira, 18 de março de 1998 19:27
>
> >As for dragons having bloodlines. I've heard some interesting arguments
on
> >either side. Personally, I don't see why a dragon can't have a
bloodline.
> In
> >fact, it makes as much (more) sense as (than) a boar or a wolf having
one.
>
> This is a quote from the Dragon magazine article "Tarazin the Gray" by
Rich
> Baker:
>
> "Like the other surviving dragons, Tarazin was completely immune to the
divine
> explosion that created bloodlines of power among humans and other
survivors."
>
> I think Rich made it pretty clear. Dragons were immune to the Deismaar
> explosion, so Cerilian Dragons do not have bloodlines. They don't need
them
> either. Cerilian Dragons are powerful enough as it is already.
>> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
line
> 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

[prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co]

- ----- Begin Included Message -----

>As for dragons having bloodlines. I've heard some interesting arguments on
>either side. Personally, I don't see why a dragon can't have a bloodline.
In
>fact, it makes as much (more) sense as (than) a boar or a wolf having one.

This is a quote from the Dragon magazine article "Tarazin the Gray" by Rich
Baker:

"Like the other surviving dragons, Tarazin was completely immune to the divine
explosion that created bloodlines of power among humans and other survivors."

I think Rich made it pretty clear. Dragons were immune to the Deismaar
explosion, so Cerilian Dragons do not have bloodlines. They don't need them
either. Cerilian Dragons are powerful enough as it is already.

- ----- End Included Message -----
Mr. Baker didn't have source holding dragons either so the point was moot. If
you take it as gospel that a dragon can hold sources, you have two choices.

1. The dragon in question needs a bloodline, just like anyone else.

2. Dragon doesn't need a bloodline 'cause he's "tied to the earth" or somesuch.

IMO #1 is the only way to go. It works slick, the reptiles have to follow the
rules just like anyone else. No super NPC exeptions in BR!

With #2 you've got lots of hand waving to do. If dragons don't need blood to
cast realm spells, neither should the elves or dwarves. In BR all three races
(actually only the humanoids- no "official" pulication has stated anything
except that the dragons are very old) originate from the earth or primeival forces of
nature and have equal claim to casting realm spells if this line of reasoning is used.
Dwarves are the true children of the earth, not the dragons.

Dragons and elves are ancient enemies. If you give one a major advantage (like the ability
to cast realm magic w/o a bloodline) the disadvantaged race would have had the spit kicked
out of it long ago.

I'd agree the draconians are powerful enough w/o bloodlines, but hey, I didn't give them the
ability to cast realm spells. Blame Ted :)

Seriously, I like and use the idea that they can cast realm spells. It just wasn't originally
envisioned that they had bloodlines and/or needed them to wield true magic (like the elves). The
consequences of not giving dragons bloodlines wasn't realized until one was given source holdingsin a later expansion. To address this problem, I think we should say certain dragons (like Vore)
received a blood line on D-Day, or acquired one later by munching a scion.

Randax

[DKEvermore]

In a message dated 98-03-19 15:44:12 EST, you write:

> With #2 you've got lots of hand waving to do. If dragons don't need blood
to
> cast realm spells, neither should the elves or dwarves. In BR all three

This is quite a leap. Are you saying that Dragons are somehow the same as
elves or dwarves? According to Cerilian history, Dragons are far older, as a
race, than either of these.

> races
> (actually only the humanoids- no "official" pulication has stated anything
> except that the dragons are very old) originate from the earth or primeival
> forces of
> nature and have equal claim to casting realm spells if this line of
> reasoning is used.

Really? I can't see that before Deismaar, elves created those ley lines
themselves. Not without a bloodline. Dragons, if they do not require
bloodlines, could have.

> Dwarves are the true children of the earth, not the dragons.

Huh? Says what? Only their own religion. BTW, their religion states that
the earliest dwarves were forged by Moradin, not born of the elements.
Obviously, you really like Dwarves, and I admit that I think Cerilian Dwarves
are just about the coolest, but I would think the above statement is a bit
exaggerated.

>
> Dragons and elves are ancient enemies. If you give one a major advantage (
> like the ability

Since when? In the source books, there is no mention of this... Well, maybe
there is, but I haven't seen it. In fact, I'll sight the PS of Tuarhievel
book as backup that Dragons and elves got along (one remained for centuries as
a Lore Keeper, until a bunch of human adventurer's found it's lair and killed
it--apparently the elves were so upset they literally tore the surprised
adventurers limb from limb).

Also, the article about Tarazin the Grey mentioned a long-standing friendship
between this great dragon and an elf lord...

However, I would be interested to read about Elf-Dragon conflicts on Cerilia
if you might produce a reference. :)

> to cast realm magic w/o a bloodline) the disadvantaged race would have had
> the spit kicked
> out of it long ago.
>

According to the histories, Dragons were not much interested in the "lesser"
races and instead warred constantly among themselves. As you pointed out
[kind of] in the above statement, the other races would be much of a challenge
to a race of conquering dragons. However, Dragonkind, unfortunately for them
did not have the inclination to cooperate. Ever. Not even at Deismaar were
dragon fought dragon...

Hehe, much like humans. If the humans ever got together and decided there
should be no more elves or dwarves.... ;)


Later,
DKE

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Randall W. Porter@6550 wrote:

> Mr. Baker didn't have source holding dragons either so the point was moot. If
> you take it as gospel that a dragon can hold sources, you have two choices.
>
> 1. The dragon in question needs a bloodline, just like anyone else.
>
> 2. Dragon doesn't need a bloodline 'cause he's "tied to the earth" or somesuch.
>
> IMO #1 is the only way to go. It works slick, the reptiles have to follow the
> rules just like anyone else. No super NPC exeptions in BR!
>
> With #2 you've got lots of hand waving to do. If dragons don't need blood to
> cast realm spells, neither should the elves or dwarves. In BR all three races
> (actually only the humanoids- no "official" pulication has stated anything
> except that the dragons are very old) originate from the earth or primeival forces of
> nature and have equal claim to casting realm spells if this line of reasoning is used.
> Dwarves are the true children of the earth, not the dragons.

OK, I'll do some hand waving. (Not only because its fun, but because I
like the flavor it adds to the historical and mythic background of
Cerillia.) Firstly, dragons have vast magical powers not because they are
"of the earth," in the way dwarves or elves are, but because they are "of
the earth _primeval_. I think that there really was a time in the
forgotten reaches of Cerillia's past, when the material world and the
Shadow World were one and the same place. But something happened to change
the nature of the world, some great cataclism that sundered the spiritual
world from the physical. Perhaps this has something to do with the big
battle of the Giants that is mentioned in the KotGD (and IIRC I believe
that there were dragons present at that battle). IMO the giants and the
dragons, being the First Children of the Gods, HAD the strength/power to
cast spells of the power of realm spells. The elves also predate that
time, but if they did have that power at one time, they lost it in the
cataclism when the two worlds separated. Subsequently both of the First
Children have dwindled (in my world, the Giants were more attracted to the
Spiritual world, and eventually all left the physical world for that one,
but that was before the spiritual world was corrupted into the Shadow
World by Azrai. My characters have actually met a Spirit Giant at one
time, but they didn't realize what it was (since it can appear to be
anything it wishes to appear as, or more likely, anything the viewer
wishes it to appear as). However, the giants, having left the physical
world, lost their bodies, with all of the difficulties in reproduction
that entails. The Dragons, on the other hand, chose to remain in the
physical world. However, over time, and in a similar fashion to the
giants, slowly lost touch with their Spirit (in the sense of motication,
driving force, and sense of connectedness to a community of like beings).
And thus both populations have dwindled over time.

> Dragons and elves are ancient enemies. If you give one a major advantage (like the ability
> to cast realm magic w/o a bloodline) the disadvantaged race would have had the spit kicked
> out of it long ago.

Are they? I never got this idea from the litterature. Had a healthy
respect for each other's territory, yes, but there are also instances of
cooperation and friendship. The Lorekeeper dragon mentioned in the
Tuarievhiel DS comes to mind.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co]

Old stuff:

> Dragons and elves are ancient enemies. If you give one a major advantage (like the ability
> to cast realm magic w/o a bloodline) the disadvantaged race would have had the spit kicked
> out of it long ago.

- ----- End Included Message -----
New stuff: (got to be brief-sorry)

1. Read Greatheart for the best feel for Cerilian Elves. They'll kill each
other if they have to. The elven lore contained in Greatheart is better than
that in the Tuarievhiel SB IMO- the Tuar SB had lots of lame ideas IMO. It had
a few good ones too. :)

In elven philosophy (ala Greatheart) elves and Dragons are ancient enemies.

2. The opening intros in the Rulebook describe how elves and dwarves come from
base elements of nature. Anything reguarding the origin of Dragons is
speculation on our part. Cool legandary stuff by MVM though.

3. Most of the Dwarven stuff in Baruk also should be ignored. Grimm strangely
merges with the earth? The whole "made of Mxxxxx metal" thing? Yuk. The
demi-humans SBs have only been good for culture color.

Gotta run,

Randax

[MANTA]

- ----------
> From: Gary V. Foss
> To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Dragons
> Date: quinta-feira, 19 de março de 1998 3:43

>
> Magic resistance could make them resistant to gaining a bloodline at
Deismar,
> but I don't think it would make them immune. First, a dragon's MR can
vary.

(Minimum 35% for a Cerilian Dragon- that´s something good. Considering
there weren´t that many dragons at Deismar it´s possible they all got lucky
and "rolled" less than35 %)

> Second, I'm not so sure that MR is something that would stop the power of
the
> gods.

I´m not sure either. It´s up to each DM to decide. In my campaign there are
blooded dragons. It was just a hipotesis(sp).

> Dwarves have MR, but they also have bloodlines.

Well, it´s not exactly MR, at least not the MR I meant. Dwarves have saving
throws bonus- which to some extent is magic resistance but is still very
different from the inate ability to make magic not work on you because you
are a part of it( i think this is the explanation the DMG gives).

MANTA

>> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
line
> 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

[rad smith]

On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Rasmus Juul Wagner wrote:

> > Is it possible the essence of the "exploding" gods just didn't make it
> to far > in the air? > Thus a flying dragon (I assume Cerillian dragons
> are flyers, and would be > during a battle) would have less of a chance
> of being hit by any of the > diviness.

> Oh. The gods took on their physical bodies, and then _exploded_,
> spraying divine blood all over the place. The more blood you were
> splattered with, the stronger your bloodline.

sounds good to me
presumably that's why the roeles had such a high bloodstrength; the
prevailing wind was in his direction so he really got drenched with the
stuff. i wonder what colour it was?


- --
rad

i consider myself to be one of england's finest liars.
-- blackadder II

[DKEvermore]

In a message dated 98-03-23 21:09:16 EST, you write:

> otherwise they would be "utterly destroyed". However, what if dragons were
> powerful enough (or connected to the land enough or whatever) to be able to
> cast a realm spell WITHOUT needing the energy provided by owning sources to
> survive the casting? I know this sort of idea puts dragons outside the
normal
> rules, something which a lot of folks on this list don't want to see (and
99%
> of the time, I heartily agree with this), but IMHO, Cerilian dragons are
such
> a truly unique race of creatures that they deserve to be able to "break/bend
> the rules" a little. But that's just me, others may see it differently, of
> course.
>
> However, having said all that, IMC, although they are not "blooded" (I
agree
> with that line quoted from the Tarazin the Grey article about all dragons
> being immune to the divine energies released at Deismaar), dragons do hold
> sources. How? Why? Well, as to the "how?", I don't need to explain it, if
you
> know what I mean. Dragons simply can have source holdings (and source
> holdings only, mind you) because that's the way they are (sorry, I can't put
> it any better than that).

Yes, yes, yes!! This is precisely the point I was making in my earlier post
on Dragons and sources. IMC Dragons are creatures of Cerilia, more so than
the other "lesser" races, responsible for holding power over ancient realms of
magic (source holdings) in the past and creating the ancient ley lines, a few
of which still exist in today's Cerilia. Extremely powerful dragons, IMC, may
have even been responsible for the independent "pools" of source mebhail that
are occasionally found.

- -DKE

[Eric Mukogawa]

I always considered that the bloodline strength and dispersion of the divine
blood was divine energy, not real blood. When the gods were destroyed,
their energies were released into the individuals who were around,
especially the champions which were probably in close proximity to the gods
themselves. It is the divine energy passed down through the bloodlines, not
physical blood of the gods themselves.

- -----Original Message-----
From: rad smith
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Date: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 5:55 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Dragons


>On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Rasmus Juul Wagner wrote:
>
>> > Is it possible the essence of the "exploding" gods just didn't make it
>> to far > in the air? > Thus a flying dragon (I assume Cerillian dragons
>> are flyers, and would be > during a battle) would have less of a chance
>> of being hit by any of the > diviness.
>
>> Oh. The gods took on their physical bodies, and then _exploded_,
>> spraying divine blood all over the place. The more blood you were
>> splattered with, the stronger your bloodline.
>
>sounds good to me
>presumably that's why the roeles had such a high bloodstrength; the
>prevailing wind was in his direction so he really got drenched with the
>stuff. i wonder what colour it was?
>
>
>--
>rad
>
>i consider myself to be one of england's finest liars.
> -- blackadder II
>
>************************************************** *************************
>>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

[Kyle Foster]

I think the idea that dragons can cast realm spells is interesting. It
was my impression that both the Dragons and Giants of Cerilia were much
more closely tied to the elements then in most settings.

It would put them in a class unto themselves in power and every GM
would have to consider the ramification before impliminting it. I will
say that having grown up on Tolkiean Dragons I always found the fantasy
dragons a bit weak in comparison.

Kyle

[rad smith]

On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Eric Mukogawa wrote:

> >> Oh. The gods took on their physical bodies, and then _exploded_,
> >> spraying divine blood all over the place. The more blood you were
> >> splattered with, the stronger your bloodline.
> >
> >sounds good to me
> >presumably that's why the roeles had such a high bloodstrength; the
> >prevailing wind was in his direction so he really got drenched with the
> >stuff. i wonder what colour it was?

> I always considered that the bloodline strength and dispersion of the divine
> blood was divine energy, not real blood.

we would like to apologise unreservedly for making a joke that was clearly
far too subtle.

this administration will make a pledge to stick to knob gags in the
future, which may be enjoyed by all.

- --
rad

i consider myself to be one of england's finest liars.
-- blackadder II

[Eric Mukogawa]

Sorry, was me just being dense. :)
- -----Original Message-----
From: rad smith
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 1998 5:10 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Dragons


>
>
>On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Eric Mukogawa wrote:
>
>> >> Oh. The gods took on their physical bodies, and then _exploded_,
>> >> spraying divine blood all over the place. The more blood you were
>> >> splattered with, the stronger your bloodline.
>> >
>> >sounds good to me
>> >presumably that's why the roeles had such a high bloodstrength; the
>> >prevailing wind was in his direction so he really got drenched with the
>> >stuff. i wonder what colour it was?
>
>> I always considered that the bloodline strength and dispersion of the
divine
>> blood was divine energy, not real blood.
>
>we would like to apologise unreservedly for making a joke that was clearly
>far too subtle.
>
>this administration will make a pledge to stick to knob gags in the
>future, which may be enjoyed by all.
>
>--
>rad
>
>i consider myself to be one of england's finest liars.
> -- blackadder II
>
>************************************************** *************************
>>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>