Aduria

[Bearcat]

> I still can't
>remember where I read the bit about 2000 regents though, anyone know?

I believe that Dosiere said it in his intro to the atlas of cerilia, buit I
can't check because my book has been lent out and is unreturned as of yet.

-

[RMoraza@aol.co]

I really hadn't given much thought to Aduria until all this discussion came
up on the list. I've been busy working on ancient history development for my
campaign. But now that the subject has come up, I started thinking about it,
and now feel compelled to express my opinion (sorry it's one of my bad
habits).

It states in the Atlas, "Despite their heroic efforts, the combined forces of
Aduria, Vosgaard, and the evil humanoids overwhelmed them. The gods knew that
Azrai's final victory was at hand. In a desperate attempt to prevent
him...the gods gathered their peoples' armies at the land bridge to Cerilia,
near the foot of Mount Deismaar..."
Now, I'm not an expert, but I have never heard of an army that could taste
victory, deciding, nah, let's go home. I believe that the Adurians were
present at the Battle, that some of them survived, and that they made it
home, complete with bloodlines.

I also have to disagree with Ian's development of Aduria now (sorry - I
really like most of your stuff). To me Aduria will always be the Evil Empire
To The South. The five tribes fled the land because of the evil and
corruption and I have trouble with the idea that the death of Azrai caused
all the citizens to wake up and turn good. I think that the evil and
corruption continued and that the Azrai-blooded survivors of MD probably rose
to great power. I also don't want Aduria to be "just another place". I
envision it as unique and different from the "known" world, with strange
cults and new religions.
Plus, it's been over 1500 years since the battle. If the Adurians are alot
like the cerilians, then why hasn't there been any contact with them? Surely
at least one curious adventurer from one side or the other has ventured forth
to "see what's going on over there". I mean, Cerilians trade with elves and
goblins - why wouldn't they want to trade with people who look a lot like
them, worship the same gods they do, have basically the same outlook on life,
and live in a place they used to call 'home'?

Well, for what it's worth, that's my opinion.
Alison

[Darkstar]

RMoraza@aol.com wrote:

> It states in the Atlas, "Despite their heroic efforts, the combined forces of
> Aduria, Vosgaard, and the evil humanoids overwhelmed them. The gods knew that
> Azrai's final victory was at hand. In a desperate attempt to prevent
> him...the gods gathered their peoples' armies at the land bridge to Cerilia,
> near the foot of Mount Deismaar..."
> Now, I'm not an expert, but I have never heard of an army that could taste
> victory, deciding, nah, let's go home. I believe that the Adurians were
> present at the Battle, that some of them survived, and that they made it
> home, complete with bloodlines.

Having now looked through everything I also agree that some of the
Adurian forces were present at Diesmaar. But for the empires I have
designed there will be very few rulers with bloodlines. Of course I have
a very good reason to back this up.

1) If the Adurian empire were so powerful that they forced 5 entire
races to flee then had they come north with all their troops then they
should have easily killed off the Cerilians. So for the information that
I am designing I have assumed that they sent only a part of their armies
north to the battle. Also had they sent all their armies north then they
would have still outnumbered the Cerilian forces after Diesmaar and
could have conquered their land during the fighting after the gods died.
Also if the Adurians had been worshippers of Azari for centuries would
Azari have chosen one of the Adurians as his champions instead of
Raesene and the Vos warriors. This indicates to me that not many
Adurians were present, at least not the leaders.
2) Some of these troops would have died in the battles that followed.
This would have cut down their numbers a little.
3) During the battle at Deismaar all the troops from each side were
gathered together so that when the Mountains and the land bridge was
destoryed the Adurian would have been trapped in Cerilia with the other
followers of Azari.
4) Many would have been killed then as they would have been stunned by
the destuction of their god. However of course this doesn't mean that
they all died. Some many have survived and eventually made it south to
Aduria once more.
5) Now the people of Aduria probably did not know what occured in the
north (remember originally they lived to the south of the land of the
Andu and the Vos). So when these returning forces came south talking
about the death of Azari the ruling church faced with losing their power
in the empires would not take this well. Therefore they order the
execution of the soldiers claiming they had been bewitched by the people
of Cerilia.
In all of Cerilia at the moment there are only about 2000 blooded scions
so even if there were a similar number of Adurian left after Diesmaar
then there can not have been that many to start with. Certainly enough
for the priests to kill off. Also as the Gorgon killed many of the
scions of Cerilia I have a very powerful Awnshegh who has killed off
most of the southern bloodlines.
6) Some blooded scion did survive. If you look at the info I have posted
so far you will see mention of a blooded PC in the first kingdom I
mentioned. I am planning to have blooded rulers in some kingdoms too.
Currently I have planned and small kingdom ruled by an Erhshegh, a very
large empire ruled over by a very powerful Awnshegh.

> I also have to disagree with Ian's development of Aduria now (sorry - I
> really like most of your stuff). To me Aduria will always be the Evil Empire
> To The South. The five tribes fled the land because of the evil and
> corruption and I have trouble with the idea that the death of Azrai caused
> all the citizens to wake up and turn good. I think that the evil and
> corruption continued and that the Azrai-blooded survivors of MD probably rose
> to great power. I also don't want Aduria to be "just another place". I
> envision it as unique and different from the "known" world, with strange
> cults and new religions.

The two kingdoms I have posted so far are not really part of Aduria. The
main Adurian empires (4 of them) are worshippers of Azari still. That is
why I put in the infomation about where they get their spells from. The
priest of Azari have a lot of power in their domains. As true magic is
not availible in Aduria (with 2 big exceptions) the priest are the most
powerful spell casters in the land and can call on powers on dreamt of
the Cerilian preists.
The ancient gods of the Five tribes are only worships in the smaller
lands, which is why these lands are not part of the main empires. Azari
priest hold sway still in the three big Adurian empires.
The last of the large empires is controlled by an Awnshegh (not giving
out description yet) who demands that the people of his kingdom worship
him. As he has a stong bloodline (Divine Aura, Bloodform, Charm Aura, +
more) the people of his empire believe him.
The smallest kingdom also has an Erhshegh who is worshipped as a
goddess.

So Aduria (the largest Empire) is still the evil empire of the south.
But you will have to wait until I convert all the info from my old
campaign world. Until then here are few thing I have already put down
for it.
- - 70+ province in main empire
- - at least 7 level 10 provinces as well (the main cities)
- - empire dominated by the temple of Azari with only a few small holdings
controlled by other temples.
- - navy uses large galleys which are very powerful, but only have a short
range (slave rowers).
- - very large army (500+ units)
- - slaves make up a large part of the population and almost all families
keep slaves to do the menial work around their homes.
- - total population of around 15 million in empire of Aduria plus many
more in other empires.


> Plus, it's been over 1500 years since the battle. If the Adurians are alot
> like the cerilians, then why hasn't there been any contact with them? Surely
> at least one curious adventurer from one side or the other has ventured forth
> to "see what's going on over there". I mean, Cerilians trade with elves and
> goblins - why wouldn't they want to trade with people who look a lot like
> them, worship the same gods they do, have basically the same outlook on life,
> and live in a place they used to call 'home'?

Here are some ideas

That after the troops the sent did not return or came back changed and
altered by the trip the emperors of Aduria decieded that something
powerful and destructive lurked in the north and didn't want to go north
again to see what it was. Then the two big empires started fighting each
other and have mainly concentrated on watching their borders in Aduria
and have had little interest in the north. The largest empire was at its
height around the time of Diesmaar and shortly after that started
falling apart. It has however recently rebuilt its empire to at least
part of it greatness and is begining to expand again.
This is something you could introduce after the Anuirean empire has been
destroyed.
Also the lands that used to be home to the Andu and the Vos, which are
directly south of Anuire were mostly destroyed in an war that occured
about 1000 years ago. They are just mainly desert now with a few
kingdoms along the coast (see map on my webpage).


Hope that clears up some thing. When I post the finished info for all
the empires it will make a lot more sense. I am creating this as a
something that can be used after the PCs have conquered all of Anuie or
even Cerila. A threat that will challenge their armies. At the moment,
and for the next couple of week all I will be posting is a couple of
small kingdoms and empires. After that I will get around to doing the
really large empires (I am putting this off as they are really large).

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
ICQ: 2938300
Home Page: http://www.box.net.au/~hoss/birth.html

>From the Darkness we came.
And to the Darkness we will return.

[Bill Seurer]

Actually, there is a relatively simple reason that may explain why the
Adurians dropped out of sight.

Suppose that they had sent the bulk of their forces to the battle and
that just like the Cerelians the bulk of their forces perished. Thus
many of their leaders were at the battle and also perished; Azrai
doubtlessly wouldn't put up with them sending minor functionaries. At
this point the bulk of Aduria's military might is gone.

If Aduria was truly an "Evil Empire" there probably was an original,
powerful kingdom which conquered their neighbors one-by-one to become
the empire. Post Deismar much of the empire was likely immediately
thrown into rebellion as the oppressed locals attempted to throw off the
yoke of imperial burden. With the bulk of the imperial army destroyed
the empire could not have crushed all the local rebellions and may have
had difficulty even protecting the core of the empire. It could take
them centuries to rebuild if ever. Think in terms of the rise and fall
of the Roman Empire except that at the height of power of the empire all
most of the legions were wiped out in one fell swoop.

Also, if many of the imperial leaders were killed at Deismar those
remaining may have squabbled among themselves over the ruins of the
empire.


- - Bill Seurer ID Tools and Compiler Development IBM Rochester, MN
Business: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com Home: BillSeurer@aol.com

[Jeremy Reaban]

I have to agree with the original commenter a bit, for a number of reasons.

Mostly, for one, there's got to be a lot of blooded people there. No one
really 'won' at Deismaar - at best it was a Pyrrhic victory for the forces
of good.

I always pictured the final battle took place on the land bridge, which was
destroyed - the Cerilians who survived were mostly on the Northern part,
and went north (or went to Mieres), while the Adurians were on the Sothern
part, and those that survived went south back to their homeland.

So, I'd think Aduria is full of blooded people, just as Cerilia is. And
there are more of them than you think. I remember someone posted an
excellent analysis of Anuire - estimating the population to be roughly 2.6
million. Since aprox 1% of people in Anuire are blooded, that's 26,000
scions.

As to True Magic in Aduria, if there are blooded people, then there must be
true magic. I don't have the Book of Magecraft, but going by Blood
Enemies, the Magian must have known some True Magic before hand to turn
himself into whatever sort of undead beastie he is (can't do it with
Illusion or Divination spells).

My picture of what Aduria is like, is perhaps of the very late Roman
empire, only not with pressure from barbarians. Decadent, ruled by mad,
insane, emperors, rampant oppression, etc. I also think they must have
some sort of cultural reason for not wanting any contact with Cerilia -
perhaps fear of invansion, perhaps fear of new ideas. That's not without
historical precedent - for much of it's history, China has been content to
stay within it's own borders. Emperor Hadrian of Rome has his wall to keep
out the Picts (or someone).

Anyway, not to criticize, it's just that for me at least, your picture of
Aduria is too Cerilian. (At least from what I've seen). IMHO, Aduria
should be a scary place. Food for thought, anyway.


Jeremy

[Michael Andrew Cullingha]

An additional reason to why the Adurians are no longer
prominent in Cerilian affairs is the destruction of
the former land bridge, although this can only
account for so much.

Mike

[Darkstar]

Jeremy Reaban wrote:
>
> I have to agree with the original commenter a bit, for a number of reasons.
>
> Mostly, for one, there's got to be a lot of blooded people there. No one
> really 'won' at Deismaar - at best it was a Pyrrhic victory for the forces
> of good.
>
> I always pictured the final battle took place on the land bridge, which was
> destroyed - the Cerilians who survived were mostly on the Northern part,
> and went north (or went to Mieres), while the Adurians were on the Sothern
> part, and those that survived went south back to their homeland.

I thought the armies would have been grouped together according to which
god or goddess they failed. As the Adurians followed Azari then they
would have been with Raesene, Tel-Qazar and the rest of Azari's troops.
If the spider could make it back to his homeland easily then that would
suggest that he was on the right side of the divide. Also in the atlas
it states that when the Elves changed sides they slaughtered the
southern warriors, so not many of them may have survived.


> So, I'd think Aduria is full of blooded people, just as Cerilia is. And
> there are more of them than you think. I remember someone posted an
> excellent analysis of Anuire - estimating the population to be roughly 2.6
> million. Since aprox 1% of people in Anuire are blooded, that's 26,000
> scions.

I think that in the rules somewhere it said that there where around 2000
or so blooded individuals in all of Cerilia, certainly not 30,000 or
something like that. Although that may have been in Anuire only.
If you look at the top of pg 20 of the rule book it states that
"hundreds of blooded characters exist who don't rule kingdoms."
This would tend to suggest that the number of non regent scions in
Anuire is numbered in the hundreds and not the thousands as you are
suggesting,


> As to True Magic in Aduria, if there are blooded people, then there must be
> true magic. I don't have the Book of Magecraft, but going by Blood
> Enemies, the Magian must have known some True Magic before hand to turn
> himself into whatever sort of undead beastie he is (can't do it with
> Illusion or Divination spells).

No-one really knows much about the Magian. He does have a bloodline
though which means either he or an ancestor of his was at Diesmaar.
In the empires I will be posting I have only two powerful mages that
exist and in the rest of the lands the priests are the most powerful.
Even in Cerilia there are only around 150-200 true mages. Magicians are
theorder of the day in Aduria.


> My picture of what Aduria is like, is perhaps of the very late Roman
> empire, only not with pressure from barbarians. Decadent, ruled by mad,
> insane, emperors, rampant oppression, etc. I also think they must have
> some sort of cultural reason for not wanting any contact with Cerilia -
> perhaps fear of invansion, perhaps fear of new ideas. That's not without
> historical precedent - for much of it's history, China has been content to
> stay within it's own borders. Emperor Hadrian of Rome has his wall to keep
> out the Picts (or someone).

Actually the main Adurian empire will be based on the Roman empire. Sort
of a reborn Roman empire with lots of evil priests and a vast army. It
will make more sense when I post the info for it.


> Anyway, not to criticize, it's just that for me at least, your picture of
> Aduria is too Cerilian. (At least from what I've seen). IMHO, Aduria
> should be a scary place. Food for thought, anyway.

You have only seen two northern lands so far. The really big Adurian
empires are in the south, and they are a little scary. Certainly more
than a match for any of the Cerilians lands, and probably even for all
of Anuire.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
ICQ: 2938300
Home Page: http://www.box.net.au/~hoss/birth.html

From the Darkness we came.
And to the Darkness we will return.

[Taragin@sprintmail.co]

> Jeremy Reaban wrote:
> > So, I'd think Aduria is full of blooded people, just as Cerilia is. And there are more of them than you think. I remember someone posted an excellent analysis of Anuire - estimating the population to be roughly 2.6 million. Since aprox 1% of people in Anuire are blooded, that's 26,000 scions.
>
Darkstar wrote:
> I think that in the rules somewhere it said that there where around 2000 or so blooded individuals in all of Cerilia, certainly not 30,000 or something like that.

If you look at the Müden Sourcebook provided by TSR on their webpage,
the population graphs show that only about .1%, or one in one-thousand
people are blooded. Hope that helps.

Alexander MacLeod
Taragin@Sprintmail.com

[Darkstar]

Taragin@sprintmail.com wrote:


> If you look at the M=FCden Sourcebook provided by TSR on their =
webpage,
> the population graphs show that only about .1%, or one in one-thousand
> people are blooded. Hope that helps.

Thats about what I was thinking .1% or .05%
It seems to fit with what I running around inside my head. I still can't
remember where I read the bit about 2000 regents though, anyone know?

- --=20
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
ICQ: 2938300
Home Page: http://www.box.net.au/~hoss/birth.html

From the Darkness we came.
And to the Darkness we will return.

[AMagie666@aol.co]

In a message dated 97-09-30 05:55:42 EDT, you write: