Magic Potential

[Tripp Elliott]

I remembered reading in one of the BR sources about the magic potential
of the various terrain types, along with the appropriate province/source
levels for when a province is being ruled up.

However, I've gone looking through my books, and can't seem to find it
again.

Can somebody aim me in the right direction to find that information.

Thanx,

Tripp

[Darkstar]

Tripp Elliott wrote:

> Thanx Brenda, here's another one, is 10 the limit that a province can be
> built up?

Yes a limit of 10 for both sources and provine levels.


> Has anyone ever wondered how the Imperial City is a 10? Is it truly
> that big, or does that 10 represent the prestige of its being the
> Imperial City?

It is a level 10, as it is the largest city in Cerilia. Provines like
Ilien (7/0) and Endier (6/0) are also mainly just the city which gives
them their high province rating.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
ICQ: 2938300
Home Page: http://www.box.net.au/~hoss/birth.html

From the Darkness we came.
And to the Darkness we will return.

[Chrys murphy]

It does say that, but chiefly to show that sources need not be located on the
surface. A source Manifestation could occur around an Ancient Oak in a Tranquil
Grove or a Seaside Grotto, or an underground cavern full of crystal growths.
The Underground sources can allow a source greater than 0 in a highly developed
province but would be incredibly rare/hard to find & would probably be the focus
of a major Adventure.

Brett Lang wrote:

> I read, I think it was the Magecraft accessory, that a source could be
> found that is underground, in a cave excetera.. Is it possible then to
> have more than one source then in a single province [ Say a grove of trees
> deep in the forest ( source 5 ), plus a special cave within a mountain
> fastness ( source 8 ), and maybe even deep beneath the ground the remains
> of a dragon (source 3) ] ?
>
> How does all this sound?
>
> Sweet water and light laughter until next !
>
> Warlock.
>
> ----------
> > From: McSorley
> > To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> > Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Magic Potential
> > Date: Friday, September 19, 1997 8:02 AM
> >
> > > Is 10 the limit that a province can be built up?
> > >
> > >
> > > Has anyone ever wondered how the Imperial City is a 10? Is it truly
> > > that big, or does that 10 represent the prestige of its being the
> > > Imperial City?
> > >
> > > Thanx,
> > >
> > > Tripp
> > According to page 96, "Rulebook", 10 is the highest, but only if your
> > province is a plain. All the others have lower limits. I think the
> > imperial city really does have that many people: as a center of power
> > before the fall, it would've had a huge population, and as the cultural
> and
> > political center it is now, it would retain it. Just my thoughts.
> > Here's another one, though: castles can be higher level than their
> > province: can they be above lvl 10? It would cost twice as much, sure,
> but
> > to some it might be worth it.
> > Daniel McSorley
> > arawn@netpluscom.com
> >
> ************************************************** *************************
> > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
> line
> > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
> ************************************************** *************************
> >

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Brett Lang wrote:

> I read, I think it was the Magecraft accessory, that a source could be
> found that is underground, in a cave excetera.. Is it possible then to
> have more than one source then in a single province [ Say a grove of trees
> deep in the forest ( source 5 ), plus a special cave within a mountain
> fastness ( source 8 ), and maybe even deep beneath the ground the remains
> of a dragon (source 3) ] ?
>
> How does all this sound?

There was a little bit of discussion on this matter concerning whether
Dwarves, living as they do underground, would destroy the magic potential
of the land. The general view, I believe, is the meghveil (sp?) is
generated by wild places, probably as an effect of "wildlife living
freely" and that it sort of runs in mystical streams along the surface of
the land and collects in places of profound mystical significance. In the
case of the underground source, it was just those places which had the
"mythical significance" (kind of like gravity) to attract the meghveil.
Actually, there can be as many of these different "sources" as you want,
but the sum total of the sources cannot add up to more than the province's
magical resource level: you cannot "collect" more meghveil into a pool
than there exists in the land around. This is why more than one wizard can
summon power from a single province: they each have their own source,
which is siphoning off their share. This also means that anyone, a fighter
as easily as another wizard, can destroy a wizard's source holding if it
is not "fortified" by retainers or summoned magical protectors. All they
need to do is go through and cut down the trees, salt the earth, write
crude sayings on the rocks, and basically destroy any "mystical
significance" the place possesses.
I suppose the body of the dragon may very well contain meghveil,
but I suspect that stealing it might, er, displease, the dragon, and kill
him if too much was stolen. But other than that, the sources in a province
cannot add up to more than the source rating of the province, unless you
create some sort of underground meghveil flow for your own particular
Cerilia (which is, of course, your right).
Interestingly, there are rumors (from TSR at GenCon last Aug) that
there is meghveil also running through the Shadow World. But I shudder to
think what would happen to the wizard regent who dared to channel it.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[Tripp Elliott]

David Sean Brown wrote:
>
> > > Thanx Brenda, here's another one, is 10 the limit that a province can be
> > > built up?
> >
> > Yes a limit of 10 for both sources and provine levels.
>
> Where do we get this from? It is sort of implied by the fact that the
> largest province/city in Anuire is 10, but even the books don't go beyond
> 9..how do we know 10 is the max? And as far as sources go, ancient
> forests can only go to 9 (max listed)..what is it that goes to 10 as a
> source?

Someone pointed out that max province holding size is listed on the last
page of the Rulebook.

This is true. the problem is there is a slight typo there, the top row
of column headings is shifted one column to the left.

Check it out, it's there.

And yes, source holdings are maxed at 9 in an ancient forest. But
plains provinces can be populated up to a 10.

Tripp

[AMagie666@aol.co]

Actually, the Lvl. 10 rating is most likely a direct representation of the
numerical population. Rome had over a million people during the Empire under
Trajan, and held this population for some time after the fall. Anuire, as
capital of the Empire(former, should also have this large a population. The
presence of the important merchants and crastsman is an additional source of
wealth for the city that has made possible the creation of the several Elite
Imperial gaurd units(Micheal Reole managed to retake the Empire during a
Civil War using only the vast resources of the city, nothing else.)

[Sepsis]

At 05:47 PM 9/19/97 +0800, Brett Lang(warlock@supernova.agn.net.au)wrote:
>
>I read, I think it was the Magecraft accessory, that a source could be
>found that is underground, in a cave excetera.. Is it possible then to
>have more than one source then in a single province [ Say a grove of trees
>deep in the forest ( source 5 ), plus a special cave within a mountain
>fastness ( source 8 ), and maybe even deep beneath the ground the remains
>of a dragon (source 3) ] ?
>

I have always ruled that, the Source level for a Provience is the total sum
of the Provience's entire Soure potential. The Provience you describe above
would have a Source level of 16. Now while the rulebook says Source
potential should not go above 10, there can always be a few exceptions.
Again your above Provience could fall into this catagory. You could even
allow three different Mages to operate within the Provience. Of course, as
the provience was Ruled up the Sources would be depleated. And this is
where the work comes in. You(the DM)would have to decide which of the
Sources where weakened everytime the Provience grew. If someone decides to
make a killing in Dragon bone jewelry, this growing industry could quickly
kill that Source. Situations like this can create great storylines(Mage vs.
Mage, Mage vs. Society), and thats always good. Lastly, as the Provience
grows toward its max of 10 it will leave a source of 6 behind. This is hard
to swallow, because when the Provience reaches 10 it is assumed most of its
natural resources are being exploited, but the Source level is connected to
the condition of nature in the Provience. The only "unnatural" Source is
the Dragon's bones. So to balance this out you should probaly make any
unnatural Sources immune from the effects of Ruleing up, and if your
"natural" Sources total past 10 then allow the Provience to be Ruled up to
the same max limit. In your above Provience that would be 13(grove of trees
deep in the forest{source 5}, plus a special cave within a mountain
fastness{source 8}).

As long as you don't overuse this particular situation, it could lead to
some good plotlines and it shouldn't throw your game out of balance. As
they say, "All good things in moderation." Well thats my long-winded view
of it. Thanks for your time.


Sepsis, richt@metrolink.net

"War is a matter of vital importance to the State;
the province of life or death;
the road to survival or ruin.
It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied."
-Sun Tzu,(The Art of War)-

BR Netbook: http://webpages.metrolink.net/~veleda/birth.html

[MHahn59022@aol.co]

In a message dated 97-09-19 12:12:18 EDT, you write:

> I read, I think it was the Magecraft accessory, that a source could be
> found that is underground, in a cave excetera.. Is it possible then to
> have more than one source then in a single province [ Say a grove of trees
> deep in the forest ( source 5 ), plus a special cave within a mountain
> fastness ( source 8 ), and maybe even deep beneath the ground the remains
> of a dragon (source 3) ] ?
>
> How does all this sound?
>
> Sweet water and light laughter until next !
>
> Warlock.

A provence may have more than one source in it. However, a particular REGENT
can have no more that one source in a provence, and the total levels of those
sources may not exceed the maximum source level (potential source level -
provinece level).

Michael Hahn

[Brett Lang]

Thanks to ya'll for your responses. I liked your ( sepsis ) and (
vandermeulen's ) critque. I think I'll allow the rare and infrequent
possibility of a source province. I also think that it would most likely
occur in an elven or dwarven domain. The idea of an artificial source of
mevaighal ( ? how do ya spell that ? ) , that is unchanged by province
growth, is also a good one.

Finally, that dwarves should not affect source levels beneath the surface
seems sound to me. After all, if elves can do this in their forests,
dwarves ( being so closely tied to the elemental earth in Cerilia ) should
be capable of the same in their subterranean underworld.

Sweet water and light laughter until next !

Warlock.

- ----------
> From: Sepsis
> To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Magic Potential
> Date: Saturday, September 20, 1997 2:58 AM
>
> At 05:47 PM 9/19/97 +0800, Brett Lang(warlock@supernova.agn.net.au)wrote:
> >
> >I read, I think it was the Magecraft accessory, that a source could be
> >found that is underground, in a cave excetera.. Is it possible then to
> >have more than one source then in a single province [ Say a grove of
trees
> >deep in the forest ( source 5 ), plus a special cave within a mountain
> >fastness ( source 8 ), and maybe even deep beneath the ground the
remains
> >of a dragon (source 3) ] ?
> >
>
> I have always ruled that, the Source level for a Provience is the total
sum
> of the Provience's entire Soure potential. The Provience you describe
above
> would have a Source level of 16. Now while the rulebook says Source
> potential should not go above 10, there can always be a few exceptions.
> Again your above Provience could fall into this catagory. You could even
> allow three different Mages to operate within the Provience. Of course,
as
> the provience was Ruled up the Sources would be depleated. And this is
> where the work comes in. You(the DM)would have to decide which of the
> Sources where weakened everytime the Provience grew. If someone decides
to
> make a killing in Dragon bone jewelry, this growing industry could
quickly
> kill that Source. Situations like this can create great storylines(Mage
vs.
> Mage, Mage vs. Society), and thats always good. Lastly, as the Provience
> grows toward its max of 10 it will leave a source of 6 behind. This is
hard
> to swallow, because when the Provience reaches 10 it is assumed most of
its
> natural resources are being exploited, but the Source level is connected
to
> the condition of nature in the Provience. The only "unnatural" Source is
> the Dragon's bones. So to balance this out you should probaly make any
> unnatural Sources immune from the effects of Ruleing up, and if your
> "natural" Sources total past 10 then allow the Provience to be Ruled up
to
> the same max limit. In your above Provience that would be 13(grove of
trees
> deep in the forest{source 5}, plus a special cave within a mountain
> fastness{source 8}).
>
> As long as you don't overuse this particular situation, it could lead to
> some good plotlines and it shouldn't throw your game out of balance. As
> they say, "All good things in moderation." Well thats my long-winded view
> of it. Thanks for your time.
>
>
> Sepsis, richt@metrolink.net
>
> "War is a matter of vital importance to the State;
> the province of life or death;
> the road to survival or ruin.
> It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied."
> -Sun Tzu,(The Art of War)-
>
> BR Netbook: http://webpages.metrolink.net/~veleda/birth.html
>> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
line
> 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

[MagnusKhn@aol.co]

>

First, the Wizard would have to fight with the local Lich for control of
those sources... Actually, imagine this... The Shadow is a twisted reflection
of all that goes on in Cerilia, So you'd have Liches gathering Shadow
mebhail, death knights ruling cities of undead in a mockery of law, Cold
Rider cults with temples of death, and demonic forces running the commerce,
with souls as their currency instead of gold... You could even make a sick
version of Birthright/Requiem where you could play one of these undead
lords...

...(V)agnus |{haine...

[Sepsis]

At 03:06 PM 9/20/97 +0800, Brett Lang(warlock@supernova.agn.net.au)wrote:
>

>
>Finally, that dwarves should not affect source levels beneath the surface
>seems sound to me. After all, if elves can do this in their forests,
>dwarves ( being so closely tied to the elemental earth in Cerilia ) should
>be capable of the same in their subterranean underworld.
>

I know this is a point of contention; I for one don't believe Dwarves would
be that environmental. Dwarves are a utilitarian race, caring little for
magic. Their works within, and outside, the mountains would only be
concerned with practicality not on how much damage they where causing to
the Source level. They find a cave full of gems...they take the gems, they
find a vein of magical gold...they take the gold. They have no need for the
Source itself, but what makes it up could be very valuable to them. Someone
else had pointed put Dwarven Mages were analogous to Elven Priests, but I
think its more extreme. Its hard to imagine a fantasy people who are not at
least a little spiritual, particularly in a universe where the spirit world
is very tangible. They may not worship "gods", but they can't deny the
existence of the powers. Now with magic and Wizards, its different. Magic
can be seen as a crutch, a tool that only weakens those who become
dependant on it(they could even use the Elven loss of their lands as being
caused by this). Magic has no "moral laws", that is there is not a greater
then mortal power insuring that magic is not used to harm the community its
supposed to benefit. To often power corrupts, and many Mages think
themselves better then others. They end up using their magic to gather more
power for themselves. Normally this should fall into the Dwarven "might is
right" mentality, except it is not equal. Not everyone has the same chance
of gaining that power and using it(True Mages are born, not made), so most
Dwarves would find magic unfair. Magic allowed Azrai to seduce the Elves(a
good Dwarven legend, at least), so in a way they could fear it. In short(to
late...I know), there are plenty of logical reasons Dwarves(or even other
societies)would disdain magic and its use. Thereby making Sources nothing
more then great places to get resources from. In fact, I would think that
Dwarves would be better at utilizing these resources. Perhaps every time
they Rule up a Province all Guild Holdings in that Province go up a level
as well(reflecting the new source of quality materials, that make the local
businesses grow). If there are no GHs then maybe they earn 10GBs every time
they Rule up that Province. Well thats my 2GBs.


Sepsis, richt@metrolink.net

"War is a matter of vital importance to the State;
the province of life or death;
the road to survival or ruin.
It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied."
-Sun Tzu,(The Art of War)-

BR Netbook: http://webpages.metrolink.net/~veleda/birth.html