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Osprey
02-18-2004, 04:28 PM
This is the 3rd kind of a academy I've worked out as a comprehensive, level-based wondrous structure that grants benefits upon each level of completion. As per the BRCS norm, these cost 25 GB per level to build and 2 GB per level per season in maintenance. P.S. - Any ideas for expansion: new advances, etc., are welcome.

Academy of Magic

Magical academies are exceedingly rare – in Anuire, the Royal College of Sorcery is the only example in existence, and it is but a shadow of its former self. The rarity of Magical Academies is due to the cost of building and maintaining one, and the relative rarity of blooded true mages. Academy mages tend to favor wizardry over sorcery for high magic, and magicians make up the majority of practitioners of the Lesser Path. However, most academies of magic will welcome any arcane spellcaster, as well as scholars of arcana, history, and lore.

Build Cost: 25 GB per level
Seasonal Maintenance: 2 GB per level
Requirements:
1. An Academy of Magic must be connected to a source directly or through a ley line. Its level may not exceed that of the highest source it is connected to; if the primary source is not in the academy’s province (and thus connected by a ley line), the maximum level is reduced by 1 per province distance. So a source(6) could allow up to a Level 5 Academy of Magic in an adjacent province connected by a ley line.

2. Due to the time and energy necessary to advance in the arcane arts, only 1 arcane advance may be taken per year, regardless of how quickly the academy is built. This reflects the time to draw mages from across the known world, as well as the extended time necessary for research and refinement. This rate is based upon the time elapsed since the last advancement was instituted (so the first advance may be taken immediately upon completing Level 1, but the Level 2 advance could not be taken for another 4 seasons, even if the 2nd level were to be completed only a month after the first!).

3. If the Academy’s regent fails to pay the seasonal maintenance, the academy’s level is permanently reduced by 1 level per season.

Benefits:

An academy of magic provides many benefits to its members and regent. As each level is completed, it represents a growing membership and the benefits of the academy’s focus. This might include advanced arcane research, alchemical advances, improved infrastructure, and almost anything else the DM or players can imagine (so long as they can win the DM’s approval).

Arcane Sanctum: An Academy of Magic is built in harmony with the local source energies (or those supplied by its primary ley line). As a result, the academy’s regent may add its level as a circumstance bonus to the DC’s of any arcane spells cast within it’s boundaries. This also applies to realm spells cast here. If a mage Guild is created, members may add ½ the academy’s level to arcane spell DC’s.

Arcane Advances:

1. Mage Guild: This is the typical advance for the first completed level of an academy of magic. This represents a formally organized structure of membership dues and benefits, along with an organized hierarchy of privileges and responsibilities. Most significantly, all arcane casters of the guild must take at least one level of the Guild Mage prestige class in order to gain full membership status. As a member, they pay dues in the form of arcane spells cast into the academy’s Spellpool. The Spellpool is built around the academy’s source (or primary ley line), and the cumulative effect of the pool adds to the source rating of the primary source. See the Mage Guild Supplement for further details on guild membership and the Guild Mage prestige class.

Beginning in the season following the establishment of the guild, the Academy of Magic’s level stacks with the level of the primary source for all purposes. Thus, the source regent may draw extra regency from the Academy (though not exceeding his bloodline limit), and any virtual guilds will also rise in level. This represents the monetary tithes members pay…usually a small percentage of their income from spellcasting services, artificing, and adventuring. For purposes of trade, an Academy of Magic is treated as a unique terrain type, and its virtual guild may trade with any other guild if a trade route is constructed. This may help further subsidize the academy’s expenses.

2. Advanced Instruction: Requires Mage Guild advance. Emphasis is placed on recruiting skilled teachers and promising students to expand the ranks of the Academy and mages at large. Once this advance comes into effect, skilled mages (of all sorts) become available for hire as lieutenants, court mages, adventurers, and temporary employment.
Once per season, the Academy adds its level as bonus to any Diplomacy check made to recruit an arcane hireling there. A DC 10 check will find 1 mage of an ECL equal to the academy’s level. Higher results may yield multiple hirelings (EL=Academy level + 1 per 5 over DC 10 on the Diplomacy check result) or a single higher level mage (EL as above). Guild members may add their guild Status ratings to the Diplomacy check as well, and any source regent may add their Reknown score (if any) as well. Finally, an initial hireling attitude should be determined based on who is hiring and what their standing attitudes toward one another might be (if unknown, assume an Indifferent attitude as a default).
Payment and terms of service should be arranged individually, but a rate of 1 GB per 5 levels of hireling per season is a reasonable norm. The hirelings level should never exceed 2 x the academy’s level.

3. Arcane Specialization: Requires Advanced Instruction and a Level 3 Academy. This advance represents an emphasis on one general class of arcane spellcasters: wizards, sorcerers, bards, or magicians. Once achieved, there is assumed to be a greater concentration of this class in the Academy. Any Diplomacy check made to recruit hirelings of this class may add the Academy’s level as a bonus to the check when determining the hireling’s level. Any academy battle casters of this class are one level higher than normal. Arcane Specialization also allows for the development of more advanced class options, such as prestige classes, specialist wizards, and the like.

4. Elder Council: Requires Arcane Specialization (any) and a Level 4 Academy. Once specialization is achieved in at least one class, the premier mages of that class may be appointed or elected as Elders of the Academy. These Elders form a council that acts as a governing group. An academy can support 1 Elder per level. Each Elder is a mage whose level is equal to [2 x Academy Level – (d3-1)]. So a Level 4 Academy would have 4 elders of level 6-8 each. Typically, each elder tends to be an expert on a different area or type of magic.

5. Alumni: Requires Elder Council and a Level 6 Academy. This advance represents a significant group of former Academy students, instructors, and members who occasionally support, aid, and visit the Academy. These alumni typically have an ECL of at least the Academy’s level, and as high as 2 x the Academy’s level. So a Level 6 Academy would have a group of alumni ranging from 6th-12th levels.
If the academy is ever seriously threatened, a large number of these alumni could be called upon to defend it. In such case, the regent would make a Lead check at DC 10, drawing a number of mages equal to the Academy’s level with a successful check, +1 per 5 over the DC on the Lead check. So a 32 check result at a level 8 academy would draw 12 mages of levels 8-16.
At any given time, there might be 1d3 alumni visiting the academy. Often these veterans will come to teach a course as a visiting instructor, or lend a hand to some ongoing research or projects. Such a benefit allows the regent to add the Academy’s level as a circumstance bonus to any one Academy-related action (such as finding hirelings, researching magic, training units, etc.).

6. Arcane Library: This advance represents the acquisition of a comprehensive body of lore, arcana, and general knowledge. Research is greatly expedited as a result. The Academy may add its level as a circumstance bonus to any knowledge-based research and Spellcraft checks made there. This includes learning known spells up to the academy’s level (so a L4 academy aids in learning level 0-4 spells). A Level 10 Academy could (theoretically) aid in the research of Epic Spells.
The library also acts as repository of Lore, giving a bardic lore ability (d20 + level of Academy) usable once for any given item, question, etc. Accessing this ability requires research, of course, possibly hours, days, or weeks for very obscure lore (DC 10: 1 hour, DC 20: 1 day, DC 30: 1 week, DC 40: 1 month). The academy’s regent may use a Court Action to assign others to the task; this does not cost GB.

7. Artificing: Requires Level 5 Academy. This advance focuses the academy’s efforts toward researching and producing new enchanted items. Simpler items (whose minimum caster level does not exceed the Academy’s) become commonly available at the standard market price (per 3.5 DMG), while extraordinary items might be commissioned if their caster level does not exceed 2 x the Academy’s level. The array of items is limited to those that can be made by arcane spellcasters with the appropriate item creation feats. So a Level 6 Academy would commonly have scrolls, potions, wands (≤CL 6, up to 3rd level spells), wondrous items (≤CL6), and magical arms and armor (+2 max. enhancement bonus, a few special abilities possible).

8. Advanced Battle Magic: Requires a Level 2 Academy. This advance focuses the academy’s resources toward training soldiers and mages in the arts of battle magic. This advance has several benefits.

-The Eldritch Knight prestige class is developed, and warrior mages become a regular aspect of the academy. Warcraft becomes a class skill for Guild Mages.

-Military units may train at the academy to gain the magical training advance. This is usable only with arcane battle casters.

-For every 2 levels of the academy, veteran units may train to gain an additional magical training advance. Each magical training advance allows one battle-caster group (usually 1-3 casters), and these extra advances may exceed the limit for veteran troops (normally 2 advanced training options, one of which would be magical training). Thus, a L4 Academy could train Veteran Heavy Infantry with Toughness and Magical Training (3). Each advance adds 1 GB to the unit’s muster cost, but this does not include the cost of the actual mages.

- Academy units (those mustered/controlled by the academy regent) do not pay any fee for the battle casters, as the academy advance covers the expense of keeping trained battle casters on hand. Foreign regents who desire battle casters must hire them separately (usually for 1-4 GB per season, depending on their caster level; 1 GB per 5 caster levels is reasonable).

-The Academy can train battle casters whose caster level cannot exceed the Academy’s level. Once per season, the Academy may produce one Battle Caster group. This includes one mage with the maximum level, and two support mages, each with a level equal to ½ the group leader’s level (round down). So a L4 academy could produce a battle group with one 4th level mage and two 2nd level mages each season. Such a group hired out would have an average cost of 2 GB per season.

Note: no more than one Battle Caster group per level of the academy may be ‘on hand’ at a time, regardless of how much time has passed since the last group was assigned to a unit. So our L4 academy could keep up to 4 groups ready to join a unit with magical training.

9. Arcane Espionage: Requires a Level 2 Academy and a Level 4 (Virtual) Guild. The academy’s efforts are bent toward developing and specializing in magics useful to espionage. If the academy regent is also a guild regent, a normal guild in the same province may be joined with the academy to allow this advance. Most academy regents will simply raise the virtual guild to the appropriate level.

-Divination and Illusion magics become specialties of the academy, and the Arcane Trickster class becomes available to guild members who meet the requirements. Rogue mages become a regular part of the academy.

-The Academy’s level now stacks with its virtual guild levels when defending against Espionage domain actions targeting the academy. Thus, a L4 Academy + L6 Virtual Guild would impose a +10 to the DC of any Espionage domain actions vs. the academy.

-Agents of the academy gain a circumstance bonus equal to the level of the academy when performing Espionage domain actions.

-Bluff, Disguise, and Gather Information become class skills for Guild Mages.

-Military units may now gain the Stealth special training option when trained here (+2 GB muster).

10. Mysticism: Requires a Level 4 Academy and an associated Temple of Ruornil or Avani (level 0). This advance signifies the joining of divine and arcane magics within the academy. Mage-priests (of Avani or Ruornil) become a visible part of the academy’s membership. A small chapel to a deity of magic becomes a permanent fixture within the Academy (the level 0 temple). A larger temple to Ruornil or Avani in the province would signify an increasingly important role of spirituality in the life of Academy mages. The Mystic Theurge prestige class becomes available for those pursuing both paths of magic. Any units with Magical Training trained here are now capable of working with divine and arcane battle magics.

-Mysticism allows the Academy to be treated as a Temple of equivalent level for the purpose of casting Divine Realm Spells here. However, this does not allow more than one realm spell, of any type, to be cast here in a given month. Nor does it add additional RP to the collections of a mage/priest regent of the academy.

-Any temples of Ruornil or Avani in the province may be included within the academy’s walls (thus, the Academy may protect up to its own level in temples as well as sources) once this advance is achieved, so long as this is agreeable to all regents involved.

Ex.: In a 1/6 province there is a source(6) and an academy(4) is built. A level 0 Temple of Ruornil is also built by the source regent, who is a Cleric of Ruornil in addition to being a wizard. The regent decides he wants to make Mysticism the Level 4 Advance for the Academy. Once he learns a few divine realm spells, he could cast any that require a Temple(4) or less in the province.


Alchemical Advances: There are several significant, large-scale developments in alchemy that can be achieved. In Cerilia, advanced alchemy requires the use of arcane magic to power the complex transmutations involved. These advances represent the efforts of many dedicated alchemists, and extensive facilities to support their work. These advances tend to be quite lucrative, as the alchemical processes do not drain experience as does artificing, and the product can be made in quantity and usable by anyone with the proper training.

All Alchemical Advances require Arcane Specialization: Magician. Magicians are ideally suited to alchemy, as their more subtle arts can manipulate small but delicate processes, and they excel at rituals and formulae.

1. Alchemists’ Fire: Requires a Level 4 Academy. Alchemists’ fire is a naptha-based substance that will burn once exposed to air, and cannot be extinguished by water. As such, it is greatly desired by most land and naval militaries, as it can be used by catapults, castle defenders, specialized fire ships (with hoses spewing the stuff from the bow). The full-time production of alchemists’ fire allows one of the academy’s trade routes to be dedicated to the export the substance. Such a route generates an additional 2 GB for the academy each season.

2. Gunpowder: Requires a Level 5 Academy. In Cerilia, advanced alchemy is required for the development and production of weapons-grade gunpowder. Once the alchemical secrets of gunpowder are discovered, the development of gunpowder weapons may be instituted at a War Academy connected to the Academy of Magic by a dedicated trade route. Such a trade route is extremely lucrative, and generates twice the normal income in GB each season for the Academy of Magic. Thus, the Academy earns GB equal to the primary source’s Virtual Guild level from a gunpowder trade route.

3. Gold Production: Requires a Level 6 Academy. A section of the academy’s alchemists are committed to full-time transmutation of lead to gold. Once full production is underway, the Academy generates 1 GB per level each season. In this way, an academy can subsidize half of its seasonal maintenance.

4. Component Production: Requires a Level 7 Academy. Alchemical advances have progressed to the point where a variety of substances and forms are easily created, in quantity if necessary. Once taken, the costs for any material spell components (for Academy mages only) is halved – including Realm Spell and battle magic components. Furthermore, the material costs for enchanting items here are also halved (1/4 of market price).

Osprey
02-18-2004, 04:31 PM
and here is the attached piece on the structure of the Mage Guild...then the Guild Mage prestige class modeled off of the Mage of the Arcane Order (but modified to allow for greater inclusion by any arcane spellcasters).

Mage Guild

The evolution of an arcane guild is a long and expensive process. It requires at least a Level 4 Academy to have a fully-staffed guild with one general area (usually wizards) of arcane specialization, a decent compliment of instructors, and a small Elder Council. A prestigious and long-standing Academy might have a far-flung web of alumni attached as well. Although any given guild can and will vary in its details, below is detailed a fairly likely guild structure.

Membership: Full membership in the academy is possible for any arcane caster whose level equals or exceeds the level of the academy. Lower-level casters may be admitted as students or junior members until they gain enough experience to meet the academy’s standards. Full members may be offered a post as an instructor or specialist, and advanced members aspire to become Elders while overseeing and guiding special projects or groups of instructors.

Guild hirelings may also include servants, administrators, guards, assistants, and any other non-spellcasters who might play a role in the Academy’s life. How these hirelings are treated is dependent upon the regent’s and the academy’s general disposition.

Member Expectations, Duties, and Privileges: Academy mages are generally well-aware of their fellows’ powers and capabilities. As such, a member’s caster level becomes their primary measure of status within the academy.
1. There is an assumption of deference to any higher-ranking (i.e., higher caster level) member.
2. All members are expected to contribute to the defense and security of the academy.
3. Members are expected to abide by all rules and restrictions laid down by the council.
4. Dues: All students, junior mages, and members are expected to pay seasonal fees in gold as well as contributions to the academy’s Spellpool in the form of donated arcane spells.

-Entrance Fee: Soliciting members must pay a significant fee in gold to the academy in order to gain membership, equal to 10,000 – (1000x ECL) gold pieces. A 10th level caster (or higher) would have this fee waived.

-Seasonal Fees: 100 gp x caster level (waived for full-time instructors and workers)

-Talented students of little means are sometimes admitted without any cash fees, so long as the council approves. However, a great deal is expected of these aspirants, as the academy is investing in them.

Spell Levels to Spellpool = 10 x caster level

5. Employment: Any full member of the Academy may seek employment within the academy (Diplomacy DC 15, add caster level as a circumstance bonus to the check). Once employed, the character no longer needs to pay the gold fees for membership, and earns 100 gp x caster level in seasonal wages, in addition to all membership benefits and room and board at the academy. Hazardous jobs will earn 200 gp x ECL per season, as will any jobs that require permanent, semi-regular loss of experience (crafting magic items, affixing permanent spells, etc.).

6. Hospitality: All members are welcome to the hospitality of the academy so long as their dues are paid. Room and board are provided whenever a member visits or works at the Academy. Members out in the field on Academy business will generally be as well-equipped and provided for as the council deems appropriate.
7. Discounts: All members receive a 25% discount on any arcane or academy-made item. This includes spell components, enchanted items, and spellcasting services, as well as alchemical substances, spellbooks, and just about anything else imported to or produced at the academy. Members are expected to sell their personal services to fellow members at the same discount.
8. Spellpool: Members who take at least 1 level of the Guild Mage prestige class gain access to the Spellpool, a node of arcane energies built upon the existing source or primary ley line at the Academy. The Spellpool allows for the storing and retrieving of arcane energies. Guild mages may draw a number of spell levels equal to 5 x their caster level each season from the Spellpool…although they are expected to restore these borrowed levels in addition to their seasonal fees. Many guild mages choose to stockpile extra levels in advance, as this serves only to strengthen the Academy’s source and insure a full supply of extra spells when really needed.
An individual guild mage may draw upon the energies of the spellpool to restore one or more expended spell slots. The mage may restore a maximum of 1 spell level per prestige class level, as a single spell or multiple spells whose total levels do not exceed the limit. Thus, a 5th level Guild Mage could regain a 2nd and a 3rd level spell after casting them, or he could regain a single 5th level spell. Drawing upon the Spellpool to restore a single spell is a full-round action requiring concentration (and provoking an attack of opportunity if threatened). In melee, a mage may ‘Cast Defensively’ as if her were casting a spell equal to the level being recalled in order to prevent an attack of opportunity.

Osprey
02-18-2004, 04:37 PM
Guild Mage Prestige Class

Requirements:
Ability to cast arcane spells
Spellcraft 5 ranks, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 ranks, Craft (any) 5 ranks
Spell Focus (any school), or any one metamagic or item creation feat.
Must be accepted as a full status guild member by the academy.

Hit Points: 1d4+Con modifier per level
Skill Points: 2+Int modifier per level
Class Skills: Administrate, Appraise, Concentration, Craft (any), Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Knowledge (any), Lead, Profession (any), Scry, Sense Motive, Speak Language, and Spellcraft.
If Advanced Battle Magic is one of the academy’s advances, Warcraft becomes a class skill for the Guild Mage.
If Arcane Espionage is an academy advance, then Bluff, Disguise, and Gather Information become class skills for the Guild Mage.

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Class Features
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Spellpool Access
2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Bonus Language
3 +1 +1 +1 +3 Cooperative Casting
4 +2 +1 +1 +4 Guild Status
5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Bonus Spell
6 +3 +2 +2 +5 Bonus Language
7 +3 +2 +2 +5 Arcane Feat
8 +4 +2 +2 +6 Bonus Spell
9 +4 +3 +3 +6 Bonus Language
10 +5 +3 +3 +7 Arcane Feat


Class Features

Caster Levels: Each level of Guild Mage adds 1 arcane spellcasting level to an existing class.

Spellpool Access: Each day, the guild mage may draw a number of spell levels equal to his caster level from the Spellpool (as detailed above). This spellpool debt must be either paid in advance, or after drawing on the pool. The maximum spellpool debt (in spell levels) that a member is allowed is equal to his caster level x 5 . However, incurring frequent spellpool debt may lead to censure by the mage’s peers.

Bonus Language: At 2nd, 6th, and 9th levels, the Guild Mage gains an additional bonus language.

Cooperative Casting: A 3rd level Guild Mage gains the metamagic feat Cooperative Casting as a bonus feat. If they already possess this feat, they gain any arcane feat of their choice (see below).

Guild Status: A Guild Mage of 4th level or higher gains a degree of exceptional status among his peers, and may use this to call on favors and aid from them. Once per month, a guild member may use their status to gain a circumstance bonus to a Diplomacy check to gain the aid or services of a fellow guild member. This bonus is equal to the character’s Guild Mage level.

Bonus Spell: At 5th and 8th levels, a Guild Mage learns an additional spell upon advancing to that level. Wizards and magicians add one spell of any level they can cast to their spellbooks, while bards and sorcerers gain the abiility to swap any one known spell for another available spell of the same level. These are in addition to any normal benefits gained from advancing a level as a spellcaster.

Arcane Feat: At 7th and 10th level a Guild Mage may choose an arcane bonus feat. This may include Battle Magic, Combat Casting, (Greater) Spell Focus (any school), (Greater) Spell Penetration, Skill Focus (Craft, K/Arcana, Scry, or Spellcraft), any Metamagic feat, or any Item Creation feat. Other specialized arcane feats are available at the DM’s discretion, and all requirements apply normally.

Note: for those who want a more "standardized" 3.5 prestige class, raise the K/Arcana and Spellcraft skill requirements to 8 ranks. ;) I made them low because I wanted the prestige class to be available to guild members as soon as possible.

RaspK_FOG
02-19-2004, 02:45 AM
Looking good! B)

irdeggman
02-19-2004, 10:33 AM
Osprey,
Good job. I have noticed a tendency for you to include gunpowder in these wonderous strucures. This would almost make it a standard item. I think I'd leave mention of it out, unless someone wanted to specifically research it and its use.

Also it is a 'requirement' in 3.5 for prestige classes to not let characters of less than 5th level qualify - so you are right in making the skill rank adjustment. Part of this reasoning is that WotC finally dropped the pretense that prestige classes shouldn't be more powerful than regular classes, they are a nudge more powerful and only really need be balanced with each other.

There is actually an academy of sorts in Modoere also. In fact all temples of Avani are libraries, which wouldn't be too much of a stretch to have them also be acadamies of sorts, she has magic as one of her areas of concern after all.

kgauck
02-19-2004, 12:00 PM
Temples of Rournil are also places of study, albeit into more esoteric

knowledge.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

Osprey
02-19-2004, 06:36 PM
There is actually an academy of sorts in Modoere also. In fact all temples of Avani are libraries, which wouldn't be too much of a stretch to have them also be acadamies of sorts, she has magic as one of her areas of concern after all.



Temples of Rournil are also places of study, albeit into more esoteric
knowledge.


All true. The only strict requirement for an academy of magic is a source holding to attach to. To allow for the Royal College of Sorcery (since all of the sources surrounding the Imp. City are claimed by other regents; in my game Lasisca Diem holds Diemed's sources, or at least the majority of them), I figure they have perhaps 2 mebhaighal stones, creating an artificaial source(2). So I figure the Royal College is a L2 academy. In its heyday (long past) the College was something more like level 6, tied into Bliene's source and built up over generations

I've debated as to whether or not there should be a limit to academies of a given type, like one per smaller region, such as Southern Anuire, the Heartlands, etc. I figure DM's could do so. There could also be a similar limit of 10 total levels per region (much like holdings in a province, but on a regional level), reflecting that there are only so many innovative experts available.

With the latter system, there's no reason you couldn't have Ruornil's academy in Medoere - IF Suris Enlien could somehow afford it. Certainly an option if a brighter (more secure) future awaits her :unsure: If Diemed falls to her and her allies (as happened in my game, though the regents were different), she might actually start having enough income to build a wonder.

Given the cost of these babies, the idea is that they're most suitable for an advanced game where the PC's (and some NPC's to keep them challenged) have consolidated money and enough power to be secure to build tremendously expensive structures (the maintenance on these things is phenomenal). Or they could already exist in a different version of the world where perhaps some regents have already advanced to that point.

You know, it's not a bad idea to add something like Mysticism as an Academy Advance. Focused on the combination of divine and arcane power, it would open up the Mystic Theurge prestige class within the academy, allow for units with Magical Training to work with divine and arcane battle magic, and gain the normal class specialization bonus (higher average character levels for cleric/mages).


I definitely like this idea.

I'm toying with the idea of the province's temple (of Avani or Ruornil only) somehow tying in with the Academy of Magic, but I can't think of a way without it getting gross (the Academy doesn't need more level stacking, that's for sure!).

Thanks for the feedback!

-Osprey

Osprey
02-19-2004, 06:51 PM
Good job. I have noticed a tendency for you to include gunpowder in these wonderous strucures. This would almost make it a standard item. I think I'd leave mention of it out, unless someone wanted to specifically research it and its use.


I included Gunpowder because it's been coming up in my own game (which is getting quite advanced in places), and there's been some ongoing discussion about it, esp. concerning Aduria. So I figured I'd throw it in there partly just to open the idea to the BR community - provide a springboard for other DM's with ideas about gunpowder.

Ideally, things for the advanced game would be published in a DMG, or at least a DM's section. for Birthright. I would expect every DM to carefully inspect any high-powered element of their world and decide if it's suitable - rather than have players demand it as their "right." Then the DM can decide if it should be edited, too - easy enough to remove gunpowder. Also, that's why the required levels are so high - it's a far-flung advance, and even getting it to European Renaissance levels (perhaps a bit futher) requires a L10 War Academy! That's 250 GB to build (at least; some of my PC's have hired Master Engineers to speed the construction, paying them per season as well!), and 20 GB per month in maintenance! Now imagine the fact that such a place would certainly be taking advantage of its very elite but very expensive troops...they'd better be filthy rich with a huge gross income to afford such a thing.

Osprey
02-19-2004, 06:54 PM
Battlesystem and Unit Statistics - For comparison of troops stats, my Battlesystem uses a square grid with Warcard troops whose tactical speed = 2 x unit's Move rating. Archers and scouts have a base range of 4, irregulars 2, artillery 6, and extended ranges are possible at penalties (-2 Missile per range increment over the base, +0 adjusted missile = maximum extended range). So gunners have a shorter range than archers, but have better crit potential. Cannons get longer and longer ranges, with potent crit potential and better siege support (higher bonus to Warcraft to storm a fortification, as per BRCS).

kgauck
02-19-2004, 07:50 PM
----- Original Message -----

From: "Osprey" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:36 PM



> You know, it`s not a bad idea to add something like Mysticism

> as an Academy Advance. Focused on the combination of divine

> and arcane power, it would open up the Mystic Theurge [PrC].

> [...]

> I`m toying with the idea of the province`s temple (of Avani or

> Ruornil only) somehow tying in with the Academy of Magic,



I am glad to see this, because from your description, the Temple of Rinli

certain strikes me as an example of this phenomena. I would argue, for the

purposes here, that a Temple of Avani or Rournil would qualify for no more

than a Pseudo-Source (0) which means only that I could run a ley line from a

real source to my Temple even if I don`t control and sources locally. Any

more than that, strikes me as too much source duplication in Temples (and

even this might be redundant).



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

ConjurerDragon
02-19-2004, 08:10 PM
Osprey schrieb:



>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=2278

>

> Osprey wrote:

> Battlesystem and Unit Statistics - For comparison of troops stats, my Battlesystem uses a square grid with Warcard troops whose tactical speed = 2 x unit`s Move rating. Archers and scouts have a base range of 4, irregulars 2, artillery 6, and extended ranges are possible at penalties (-2 Missile per range increment over the base, +0 adjusted missile = maximum extended range). So gunners have a shorter range than archers, but have better crit potential. Cannons get longer and longer ranges, with potent crit potential and better siege support (higher bonus to Warcraft to storm a fortification, as per BRCS).

>

And when it rains and the gunpowder becomes wet? Or the enemy has a

wizard/druid that uses a spell to let it rain? ;-)

Even Total War-Shogun had that implemented and arquebuses in that game

were useless on rainy days...

bye

Michael

ConjurerDragon
02-19-2004, 08:10 PM
Osprey schrieb:



>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=2278

>...

> All true. The only strict requirement for an academy of magic is a source holding to attach to. To allow for the Royal College of Sorcery (since all of the sources surrounding the Imp. City are claimed by other regents; in my game Lasisca Diem holds Diemed`s sources, or at least the majority of them), I figure they have perhaps 2 mebhaighal stones, creating an artificaial source(2). So I figure the Royal College is a L2 academy. In its heyday (long past) the College was something more like level 6, tied into Bliene`s source and built up over generations

>

>

Wasn´t there a passage in the BoM that once 10 leylines connected to the

College of Sorcery (before the ruin of the tower)?

bye

Michael

geeman
02-19-2004, 08:30 PM
At 08:48 PM 2/19/2004 +0100, Michael wrote:



>Wasn´t there a passage in the BoM that once 10 leylines connected to the

>College of Sorcery (before the ruin of the tower)?



There used to be a lot more, but now there are only ten:



"Centuries ago there were dozens upon dozens of ley lines extending out

from the province. Every member of the council controlled several of the

lines, as did key instructors and a few choice students. However, when the

Great Tower fell during the internal succession wars which followed Michael

Roele`s death, the lines were sundered. Most were not replaced. Now only

10 ley lines exist, and the council members who control them guard them

carefully" p57.



Gary

Osprey
02-20-2004, 07:28 AM
And when it rains and the gunpowder becomes wet? Or the enemy has a
wizard/druid that uses a spell to let it rain? ;-)
Even Total War-Shogun had that implemented and arquebuses in that game
were useless on rainy days...
bye
Michael

Good point. Not a bad condition to add to gunpowder units - in Medieval Total War (which is where I borrowed heavily from, in all honesty), handgunners, etc., can&#39;t fire in rain, while cannons are greatly reduced in effectiveness.

Osprey
02-20-2004, 07:32 AM
>Wasn´t there a passage in the BoM that once 10 leylines connected to the
>College of Sorcery (before the ruin of the tower)?

There used to be a lot more, but now there are only ten:

"Centuries ago there were dozens upon dozens of ley lines extending out
from the province. Every member of the council controlled several of the
lines, as did key instructors and a few choice students. However, when the
Great Tower fell during the internal succession wars which followed Michael
Roele`s death, the lines were sundered. Most were not replaced. Now only
10 ley lines exist, and the council members who control them guard them
carefully" p57.

Gary


This is definitely true by the book, but where do those ley lines connect to? Since most or all of the sources are claimed by other regent mages outside the Imperial City, the only conclusion I could come to was that the ley lines extend out from the Imperial City, but don&#39;t draw regency in from other sources. Meaning the Masters of the Royal College could cast realm spells into 10 other provinces outside the Imperial City.

irdeggman
02-20-2004, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by Osprey@Feb 20 2004, 02:32 AM

"Centuries ago there were dozens upon dozens of ley lines extending out
from the province. Every member of the council controlled several of the
lines, as did key instructors and a few choice students. However, when the
Great Tower fell during the internal succession wars which followed Michael
Roele`s death, the lines were sundered. Most were not replaced. Now only
10 ley lines exist, and the council members who control them guard them
carefully" p57.

Gary


This is definitely true by the book, but where do those ley lines connect to? Since most or all of the sources are claimed by other regent mages outside the Imperial City, the only conclusion I could come to was that the ley lines extend out from the Imperial City, but don&#39;t draw regency in from other sources. Meaning the Masters of the Royal College could cast realm spells into 10 other provinces outside the Imperial City. [/quote]
I think you are missing something about leylines. The point of having one was to be able to draw from a higher source holding and cast a realm spell in an area that had a lower source holding, effectively connecting the source holdings. In this case the council members would be drawing on their own sources (outside the Imperial City with an assumption that they are greater than a 0 source holding) to cast realm spells in or from the Imperial City.

kgauck
02-20-2004, 01:30 PM
Ley lines can be forged to link multiple provinces through a single line as

an alternative. Those who imagine such is in place regarding the RCS could

yet have significant networks. Also, the identities of the ruling 10 is not

discussed. Some important wizards from RoE could well be among the 10,

might have relationships or alliances with some of them, and so may either

connect their own networks to the RCS, or loan a key source to th RCS who

runs a line to that provicne.



One might well regard the RCS as a kind of Imperial Senate of the arcane

world, a place where rivals meet and cooperate before stepping back into

their world of rivalry outside the Imperial City. There are five regions of

Anuire, there may well be two of the prominent NPC wizards in each region

among the ruling council.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

Osprey
02-20-2004, 05:54 PM
Ley lines can be forged to link multiple provinces through a single line as
an alternative. Those who imagine such is in place regarding the RCS could
yet have significant networks. Also, the identities of the ruling 10 is not
discussed. Some important wizards from RoE could well be among the 10,
might have relationships or alliances with some of them, and so may either
connect their own networks to the RCS, or loan a key source to th RCS who
runs a line to that provicne.


Yeah, I was just thinking that last night after posting. I think this is the only alternative explanation for how the RCS might be able to draw mebhaighal into the Imperial City - if some of the masters are really regent mages from other areas. Hermedhie, Court Wizard of Medoere, is the best candidate I could find in RoE for an RCS master or donor to one of the masters. Also, RoE has Bliene with only 4 source levels claimed (in a 3/6 province). Does the RCS quietly claim the other 2 levels?

In truth, I think Ruins of Empire never did a very good job of explaining the Royal College of Sorcery. Such a potentially powerful organization really could have used some more detail. And since they did not, I&#39;ve been left (as a DM) to work out many of the details on my own if I want it to be a living part of my campaign.

In BRCS it even says the RCS is known to possess at least one mebhaighal stone. That&#39;s the only definite mention of any kind of source rating in the RCS.

There&#39;s a subtler possibility with the RCS&#39; ley lines. Perhaps they don&#39;t draw enough power to actually fuel realm spells anymore. It&#39;s possible that they draw residual mebhaighal, enough to keep the RCS functioning as an arcane sanctum and to power regular spells.
If the masters are forced to "borrow" from another mage&#39;s source in order to cast a realm spell, it means they never get the regular RP income necessary to cast realm spells in the first place. That requires control of a source, not just access to it. So to have any teeth at all, I think the mebhaighal stone + Academy levels still provides the only reliable source of RP for the Council&#39;s use.

Although the idea that the identity of the 10 Masters is somewhat mysterious would allow a few source regents to quietly contribute RP and direct council decisions. I&#39;ve always believed Calidhe Dosiere sits as one of the 10. Hermedhie is a great candidate (or at the least a star pupil of one of the masters), so is Rogr Aglondier, and maybe the High Mage Aelies, too. Caine and the Sword Mage, probably not. Harold Khorien? Hard to say...he&#39;d probably be an absentee member if at all.

The thing is, making any of these regents masters of the RCS really writes in a lot of assumptions that aren&#39;t evident in the RoE literature...so in the end, one explanation is really as speculative as another, isn&#39;t it?

Osprey
02-20-2004, 05:59 PM
I think you are missing something about leylines. The point of having one was to be able to draw from a higher source holding and cast a realm spell in an area that had a lower source holding, effectively connecting the source holdings. In this case the council members would be drawing on their own sources (outside the Imperial City with an assumption that they are greater than a 0 source holding) to cast realm spells in or from the Imperial City.
--------------------
Duane Eggert

I don&#39;t think I missed that at all. I was working off my idea that the Royal College of Sorcery is the equivalent of a source (4), and having 10 ley lines allows the RCS masters to use that source to cast realm spells in 10 provinces outside of the Imperial City. I was basing this off the fact that you can&#39;t find a single place in Ruins of Empire that gives the RCS a single level of source holdings anywhere in Anuire&#33; So however they get RP, the method must be somehow invented by us because the designers didn&#39;t write it in. Correct? One way or another, we have to start creating plausible explanations, and then it comes down to "Which explanation or scenario do we like best?"

So all ideas welcome&#33; :)

Quick note: as I understand all rules I have read on them (though RoE once again contradicts this idea by putting level 0 sources in most every major province), ley lines only require a source for their point of origin - they don&#39;t seem to require even a source(0) at their point of termination. BRCS makes this point clear (it&#39;s simply unclear in the original rulebook), if it&#39;s to be considered the correct interpretation. So a major function of ley lines is the ability to cast realm spells beyond your native sources into any province at all&#33;

If I were the RCS, for instance, I can name four provinces right off where&#39;d I&#39;d have ley lines for the sake of protecting the Imperial City: Anure (the province), Ciliene, Daulton, and Aerele. Countermeasures vs. the 2 major threats to the Imp. City&#39;s security. But that still leaves 6...

Birthright-L
02-20-2004, 06:30 PM
> Yeah, I was just thinking that last night after posting. I think this

> is the only alternative explanation for how the RCS might be able to

> draw mebhaighal into the Imperial City - if some of the masters are

> really regent mages from other areas. Hermedhie, Court Wizard of

> Medoere, is the best candidate I could find in RoE for an RCS master or

> donor to one of the masters. Also, RoE has Bliene with only 4 source

> levels claimed (in a 3/6 province). Does the RCS quietly claim the

> other 2 levels?



> Although the idea that the identity of the 10 Masters is somewhat

> mysterious would allow a few source regents to quietly contribute RP

> and direct council decisions. I`ve always believed Calidhe Dosiere

> sits as one of the 10. Hermedhie is a great candidate (or at the least

> a star pupil of one of the masters), so is Rogr Aglondier, and maybe

> the High Mage Aelies, too. Caine and the Sword Mage, probably not.

> Harold Khorien? Hard to say...he`d probably be an absentee member if

> at all.



I think it was in Player`s Secrets of Ilien where it was mentioned that

both Rogr Aglondier and High Mage Aeelies were members. Apparently,

that`s what keeps Aelies from crushing Aglondier.



--Lord Rahvin

irdeggman
02-20-2004, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Osprey@Feb 20 2004, 12:59 PM

I think you are missing something about leylines. The point of having one was to be able to draw from a higher source holding and cast a realm spell in an area that had a lower source holding, effectively connecting the source holdings. In this case the council members would be drawing on their own sources (outside the Imperial City with an assumption that they are greater than a 0 source holding) to cast realm spells in or from the Imperial City.
--------------------
Duane Eggert

I don&#39;t think I missed that at all. I was working off my idea that the Royal College of Sorcery is the equivalent of a source (4), and having 10 ley lines allows the RCS masters to use that source to cast realm spells in 10 provinces outside of the Imperial City. I was basing this off the fact that you can&#39;t find a single place in Ruins of Empire that gives the RCS a single level of source holdings anywhere in Anuire&#33; So however they get RP, the method must be somehow invented by us because the designers didn&#39;t write it in. Correct? One way or another, we have to start creating plausible explanations, and then it comes down to "Which explanation or scenario do we like best?"

So all ideas welcome&#33; :)

Quick note: as I understand all rules I have read on them (though RoE once again contradicts this idea by putting level 0 sources in most every major province), ley lines only require a source for their point of origin - they don&#39;t seem to require even a source(0) at their point of termination. BRCS makes this point clear (it&#39;s simply unclear in the original rulebook), if it&#39;s to be considered the correct interpretation. So a major function of ley lines is the ability to cast realm spells beyond your native sources into any province at all&#33;

If I were the RCS, for instance, I can name four provinces right off where&#39;d I&#39;d have ley lines for the sake of protecting the Imperial City: Anure (the province), Ciliene, Daulton, and Aerele. Countermeasures vs. the 2 major threats to the Imp. City&#39;s security. But that still leaves 6...

Check the BoM (pg 56+)[there is somewhere around 10 pages of discussion concerning the RCS]. It gives a whole lot more details concerning the RCS. Specifically that there is a level 0 holding there. That is the primary source for description of how the ley lines foucus inward and not outward from it.

It also gives a whole lot more detail concerning ley lines, transfering them (and loaning them), etc.

Basically it is "the" definitive source of 2nd ed material concerning the RCS and also ley lines.

Osprey
02-20-2004, 07:05 PM
Check the BoM (pg 56+)[there is somewhere around 10 pages of discussion concerning the RCS]. It gives a whole lot more details concerning the RCS. Specifically that there is a level 0 holding there. That is the primary source for description of how the ley lines foucus inward and not outward from it.

It also gives a whole lot more detail concerning ley lines, transfering them (and loaning them), etc.

Basically it is "the" definitive source of 2nd ed material concerning the RCS and also ley lines.

Ahhh...well I have never owned a copy of that particular book, more&#39;s the pity. Nor am I particularly well-endowed with money right now (assuming I could find a copy for sale somewhere)...if you know of any place where the material is posted online, please share&#33; :)

osprey424@yahoo.com

Birthright-L
02-20-2004, 07:10 PM
> I don`t think I missed that at all. I was working off my idea that

> the Royal College of Sorcery is the equivalent of a source (4), and

> having 10 ley lines allows the RCS masters to use that source to cast

> realm spells in 10 provinces outside of the Imperial City. I was

> basing this off the fact that you can`t find a single place in Ruins of

> Empire that gives the RCS a single level of source holdings anywhere in

> Anuire&#33; So however they get RP, the method must be somehow

> invented by us because the designers didn`t write it in. Correct? One

> way or another, we have to start creating plausible explanations, and

> then it comes down to "Which explanation or scenario do we like

> best?"

>

> So all ideas welcome&#33; :)



(I apologize if I`m just repeating stuff... I haven`t really been

following this thread and the forums don`t access well on my (primitive)

browser...)



I think the point was that each of the individual members would have a

leyline connected to one of their indivudal sources, thus making the RCS

web.



Personally, I could see the royal council as a group of ten vassals that

contribue Regency to the unit as a whole with domain actions being

decided by some kind of voting system.



Or they could all be vassals for some dark denizen of the shadow world

that has decieved them all.....





--Lord Rahvin

Birthright-L
02-20-2004, 08:10 PM
I kind of like this description from Blood of Heroes: Special Edition

(Pulsar Publishing):



The Mystical Community is no more a community than a flock of moths

around a bug zapper. Practitioners of the mystical arts tend to

encounter one another with enough frequency that they have established a

network of sorts. Rather than an actual gathering, the Mystical

Community is set to a series of checks and balances; those who wish more

magical influence can keep tabs on others who wish the same and vice

versa. In this way, members of the Community keep their friends close

and their enemies closer.



Community members tend to inform the others of strange occurences,

fluctuations in magical energies, powerful mystic adversaries, and so

forth, but only when necessary and when it suits them; no one actually

goes out of their way to help the others unless it is in their best

interest. Magic users are often selfish and rarely give away an

advantage.



Having a Connection to the Mystical Community does not necessarily make

one a member. A Low Level Connection to the Community allows the

character to ask advice from any of the members. A high level

Connection allows the character to ask for a Power or Skill to be used

on his behalf, so long as such an effort is brief and non-threatening.

In addition, a High Level Connection gives the character a vague idea as

to where he might find the closest member of the Mystical Community.



In the world of magic, there is no such thing as coincidence. Whether

the character realizes it or not, a Connection with the Mystical

Community almost alwaays means there is something inherently magical

about the individual; he is more than just Touched.







--Lord Rahvin

irdeggman
02-20-2004, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by Osprey@Feb 20 2004, 02:05 PM

Ahhh...well I have never owned a copy of that particular book, more&#39;s the pity. Nor am I particularly well-endowed with money right now (assuming I could find a copy for sale somewhere)...if you know of any place where the material is posted online, please share&#33; :)

osprey424@yahoo.com
You can get a pdf download from SVGAMES for under &#036;5. There are currently 2 copies listed for sale on ebay and they look like they will go for less than that (but there will be shipping involved)

The Book of Priestcraft is also available, another real important book from a reference standpoint.

destowe
02-23-2004, 11:43 PM
I always thought the CoS should have developed some of the sources of the Baerghos Islands.

Right offshore, not claimed, and if experiments go wrong it is contained.

Osprey
02-24-2004, 05:33 AM
I always thought the CoS should have developed some of the sources of the Baerghos Islands.

Right offshore, not claimed, and if experiments go wrong it is contained.

Right, but the problem is that ley lines don&#39;t extend across bodies of water like the Straits of Aerele...at least that seemed to be the general concensus the last time I broached the subject in the forums. So islands become isolated sources that grant regency but cannot be used for realm spells outside the islands.

As a DM, I would rule that island chains/groups be counted as "adjacent" if more than one province if they&#39;re clustered together, as the water between would be no more significant than a major river like the southern Maesil.

Osprey

Anakin_Miller
02-25-2004, 12:50 AM
>

> Right, but the problem is that ley lines don`t extend across bodies of

water like the Straits of Aerele...at least that seemed to be the general

concensus the last time I "



---------------





Sorry but the general concensus was wrong....



Book of Magecraft, pg. 26 "Ley Lines can be forged across bodies of water,

but they can extend no longer than 150 miles before terminating on dry

land."



-Anakin Miller

tcharazazel
02-25-2004, 06:59 AM
then how big is your average sea zone? 50, 75 or 100 miles across?

Anakin_Miller
02-25-2004, 12:40 PM
The Straits of Aerele are only 50 miles wide. Baerghos Island is 50 miles

off the coast of Taeghas,,,,



Cerilia is a tiny world, so that 150 mile limit is not a draw back.

Cerilian Wizards could be tapping Aduria, if there is not local competition

from the natives.



-Anakin

----- Original Message -----

From: "tcharazazel" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>

Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 1:59 AM

Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] Academy of Magic [2#2278]





> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=2278

>

> tcharazazel wrote:

> then how big is your average sea zone? 50, 75 or 100 miles across?

>

>



>

> Birthright-l Archives:

http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html

>

>

>

Benjamin
02-25-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by tcharazazel@Feb 25 2004, 01:59 AM
then how big is your average sea zone? 50, 75 or 100 miles across?
The poster maps have a handy scale on them somewhere. Of course, most of the maps you find online don&#39;t have them, so I can see how this is confusing. And like Anakin said - 150 mile limit is nothing. Aelis should have tapped into Caelcorwynn Island centuries ago, just to have unspoiled sources.

tcharazazel
02-25-2004, 02:44 PM
When i look at the sea zone map on the cartographers guild webpage it shows there are 2 sea zones between Mieres and the Southern Coast. So, to confirm then are sea zones about 25 miles accross then?

I&#39;m also curious about this for an off topic reason, namely calculating the avg speed of a ship in mph, for ease :)

One other quick question off topic, then is the avg province 25 miles across? or are sea zones just really small?

So the home rule to make provinces and sea zones bigger aside, I just have to say I&#39;m a bit jealous of the wizzie regent who&#39;s gonna get to run this Academy... heheh, tho I&#39;m sure I&#39;ll be shellin out the cash for it :D

tcharazazel
02-25-2004, 03:11 PM
and yes im aware in the BCRS they say an avg province is about 30-40 miles in diameter. So, my question is really aimed at figuring out why they decided to make sea zones smaller.

ConjurerDragon
02-25-2004, 08:40 PM
Aerenwe NOF schrieb:



>The Straits of Aerele are only 50 miles wide. Baerghos Island is 50 miles

>off the coast of Taeghas,,,,

>

>Cerilia is a tiny world, so that 150 mile limit is not a draw back.

>Cerilian Wizards could be tapping Aduria, if there is not local competition

>from the natives.

>-Anakin

>

Especially the Yakmen of Aduria that secretly leech the bloodlines of

the Cerilian scions ;-)

bye

Michael

Don E
02-26-2004, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by irdeggman@Feb 20 2004, 07:36 PM
Check the BoM (pg 56+)[there is somewhere around 10 pages of discussion concerning the RCS]. It gives a whole lot more details concerning the RCS. Specifically that there is a level 0 holding there. That is the primary source for description of how the ley lines foucus inward and not outward from it.

It also gives a whole lot more detail concerning ley lines, transfering them (and loaning them), etc.

Basically it is "the" definitive source of 2nd ed material concerning the RCS and also ley lines.
IMO opinion the problem here is the BoM itself. While a brilliant book when it comes to adding rules to the magic system on the domain level of BR, I feel some parts of the background material is seriously lacking. It seems to me that the books was written entirely outside the framework of the Anuirean state of politics and power.

To be more specific I can mention the introduction of 10 high level blooded wizards into Anuirean politics. How could these people not have a profound effect on all that happens within a wide radius of the Imperial City? Any one of those 10th to 19th level (correct me if I&#39;m wrong) wizards could long ago have been established as a strong regent wizard with a significant number of sources.

I have discuseed this with some people before, and one argument that keep returning is that the wizards in the CoS is not interested in politics and try keep out of the current affairs of Anuire. Not only is it very unlikely to have 10 blooded wizarsd that are all pacifists, but over a longer time period the probability off all not wishing to gain any power becomes quite slim.

As for the ley lines I have always found them odd, even before BoM came out. If they are used to educational purpouses as described in RoE it might make sense, but the maintenance would still be an extremely high cost to pay. And where do these wizards gain the RP to use these ley lines? I doubt they are continuously burning off their bloodline to gain RP for such a use.

IMCs I have severely reduced the importance of the CoS. Partly because I can&#39;t find a way of fitting them into Anuirean politics, and partly because it smacks to much of FR to me. Personal opininion of course. If one tried to come to some form of consensus for fitting the CoS into Anuire in their exoisting state I would suggest a combination of reducing the power level of the wizards (perhaps reduce the number to half or less) and possibly making them regents with a few sources. That would change the power in the region, but I beleive that is inevitable if one wants it included.


Cheers,
Don E

Osprey
02-29-2004, 03:34 PM
Sorry but the general concensus was wrong....

Book of Magecraft, pg. 26 "Ley Lines can be forged across bodies of water,
but they can extend no longer than 150 miles before terminating on dry
land."

-Anakin Miller


I&#39;ve been mulling over this issue of ley lines, and frankly I think this 150 mile limit over water is rather arbitrary and groundless. The Book of Magecraft may say so, but the more I think about it the more I don&#39;t like it. Why? What&#39;s 150 miles got to do with ley lines?

As a DM, I&#39;m more comfortable with a rule something like "a Ley Line cannot extend across a sea zone. It may cross bodies of water that do not make up a "province" in and of themselves."

Maybe that&#39;s just me being resistant to change my own version of Cerilia once I&#39;ve set it up that way, but at least it has some logic to it.

It might be interesting to add that any major river or body of water would make a barrier for ley lines. Not impenetrable, but one that requires a stronger ley line than a land-bound one. So adding 1 RP and 1 GB to the cost of any ley line that crosses a major river could be an interesting element to allow for the power of running water in eroding continuous lines of mebhaighal that bridge them.

RaspK_FOG
03-01-2004, 11:19 AM
I would like to add my two coppers worth of an opinion here:



Magic is drawn from the land, right?

And water cannot generally be considered as "land", correct?

I think that a more concrete rule would be to say that water generally increases the difficulty of "establishing" a ley line. The wider and deeper a body of water is, the more GB (a slight curve gain, like a numerical progress) and RP (a tremendous curve gain, like a geomatric or exponential progress, or even a factorial) you need to "establish" a ley line. As such, small rivers, particularly streams, would not affect ley line usage a lot, but ley lines crossing seas would be too cost-defective to most people&#39;s liking... or perharps to some people&#39;s liking&#33; :P

In any case, I would go with a numerical progress for GB (+1, +1, and so on, per "size category"), while I would use a factorial for RP when it comes to big, deep bodies of water, like lakes and seas (+1, +2, +6, +24, +120, +720, and so on, per "size category"), or a geomatric progress for shallow bodies of water, like rivers (+1, +2, +4, +8, +16, +32, and so on). This allows really powerful regents to use ley-lines over bodies of water, but... :P