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View Full Version : [BIRTHRIGHT] Up for some creative debate?



Trithemius
01-26-2004, 09:50 AM
Quoting Terence <terence@COGECO.CA>:

> How feasible would an official "next age" of Cerilia be? Although this

> may be quite an undertaking, it will provide some fun debate, as well as

> letting the real world that the birthright community is still quite alive.



Where is Mr. McSorley? I believe it may be tme for or semi-regular rant about gunpowder

anytime now! :)



I have envisaged a number of "near-future" scenarios, as well as an alternate history

(one without Deismaar). My current favourite is, as was hinted above, an electoral system

in Anuire that is slowly falling apart and a resurgent Basarji Federation, with the Brecht

people hegemonising a bit ore and becoming the other "superpower" in my little bipolar

world system.



In such a scenario, the Gorgon has lithified to the extent that he is easily dealt with by

cannon artillery. ;)



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

-----------------------------------------------------

- Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.

Osprey
01-30-2004, 08:05 PM
What if the Gorgon was the one who invented/ utilized gunpowder?&#33;? Being a wizard (with genius+ intelligence), alchemy should be right up his alley...heh heh heh&#33;
;)

Trithemius
02-01-2004, 08:10 AM
Osprey:

> What if the Gorgon was the one who invented/ utilized gunpowder?&#33;?

> Being a wizard (with genius+ intelligence), alchemy should be right up

> his alley...heh heh heh&#33;

> ;)



Don`t get me started about this again...



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

-----------------------------------------------------

- Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.

Anakin_Miller
02-01-2004, 08:30 AM
>Don`t get me started about this again

>

>--

>John Machin





Now John... Play nice... :)



The Cerilian Smokepowder is harmless... still quite a few years away from

Cannons and side arms ... Does anyone out there remember what dragon the

article about Naval ramming and smokepowder was in?



-Anakin

Trithemius
02-01-2004, 09:30 AM
Anakin Miller:

> The Cerilian Smokepowder is harmless... still quite a few years away

> from Cannons and side arms ... Does anyone out there remember what dragon

> the article about Naval ramming and smokepowder was in?



Mainly its the whole "The Gorgon is a wizard" thing. I never saw the point in

that. I can`t believe that the violently overconfident god-like master of arms

is going to get up one morning and say "I think I will spend the next few

years becoming one of the most powerful wizards on the continent".



Bah I say.



Why can`t he just have pet wizards that he occassionally kills off, like all

the rest of his minions?



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

-----------------------------------------------------

- Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.

ConjurerDragon
02-01-2004, 10:50 AM
Anakin Miller schrieb:



>>Don`t get me started about this again

>>

>>--

>>John Machin

>>

>>

>Now John... Play nice... :)

>

>The Cerilian Smokepowder is harmless... still quite a few years away from

>Cannons and side arms ... Does anyone out there remember what dragon the

>article about Naval ramming and smokepowder was in?

>- Anakin

>

Dragon 232 article "Weapon of the Waves" had not smokepowder but

"Hellpowder" ;-)

bye

Michael

Osprey
02-02-2004, 11:34 PM
Mainly its the whole "The Gorgon is a wizard" thing. I never saw the point in
that. I can`t believe that the violently overconfident god-like master of arms
is going to get up one morning and say "I think I will spend the next few
years becoming one of the most powerful wizards on the continent".

Bah I say.

Why can`t he just have pet wizards that he occassionally kills off, like all
the rest of his minions?

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)


I think he&#39;d be far less of a threat as a pure fighter...FAR less.

If you want to get really evil about it, though, converting him to 3.5 standards, you could convert alot of those wizard levels to Eldritch Knight and make him even sicker...I know, I know, how much sicker does he need to get?

Although I see your point, and it&#39;s a valid one, I think the flaw is in Raesene&#39;s background story - if he is such a bad-assed wizard, it should certainly be written into his character background piece as a significant part of his development. As it is, I agree that it seems "tacked on" for extra power. I don&#39;t mind him being multi(dual) classed, but I do want a better reason for it.

-Osprey

Azrai
02-02-2004, 11:44 PM
Who needs smokepowder if there are fireballs and mighty divine magic?

The proposal of a "new age" would be very difficult, because every BR-DM has his own taste of the worlds future.

Birthright-L
02-03-2004, 04:40 AM
> The proposal of a "new age" would be very difficult, because

> every BR-DM has his own taste of the worlds future.



My taste includes a steampunk Cerelian setting where the borders between

The World and the Shadow World are almost completely shattered by the

Gargon`s release of corruptong Dark Sources, the primary source of

arcane magic. Regency is the only thing that keeps the powers of

Steamcraft operational, giving man and dwarf alike the ability to help

drive off the Shadow Wilderness. The gods have once again intervened,

but Laerme`s avatar has been cleverly captured by The Gorgon who seeks

to exinguish Larme`s Flame of Hope from the world...



--Lord Rahvin

Trithemius
02-03-2004, 10:40 AM
Osprey:

> I think he`d be far less of a threat as a pure fighter...FAR less.



Possibly, but in 2e he could look at people and kill them once per round for

free. That`s pretty damn threatening if you ask me!;)



> Although I see your point, and it`s a valid one, I think the flaw is in

> Raesene`s background story - if he is such a bad-assed wizard, it should

> certainly be written into his character background piece as a

> significant part of his development. As it is, I agree that it seems

> "tacked on" for extra power. I don`t mind him being

> multi(dual) classed, but I do want a better reason for it.



Exactly.

I don`t see anywhere the kind of career change needed to make the Gorgon the

equal of pretty much any wizard in Anuire (bar that Lichey Sidhe from PS:

Tuarhievel... no comment...). I like the idea of the Gorgon as a brutal tyrant

who plans well, but I do not see that means he -must- be a wizard. I think its

more interesting if he isn`t, and if he just has a cadre of wizards who are

trying to curry his favour (i.e. stay alive) and murder their rivals.



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

-----------------------------------------------------

- Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.

Trithemius
02-03-2004, 10:40 AM
Azrai:

> Who needs smokepowder if there are fireballs and mighty divine magic?



Does it need to be said?

Everyone who does not possess powerful magic, of course.



I am personally inclined to limit the number of homicidally inclined wizards

who are also so contemptuous of their own safety as to hang around on

battlefields. Certainly there will be some, but not enough to go around.



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

-----------------------------------------------------

- Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.

Trithemius
02-03-2004, 10:40 AM
Anthony Juarez:

> My taste includes a steampunk Cerelian setting where the borders

> between

> The World and the Shadow World are almost completely shattered by the

> Gargon`s release of corruptong Dark Sources, the primary source of

> arcane magic. Regency is the only thing that keeps the powers of

> Steamcraft operational, giving man and dwarf alike the ability to help

> drive off the Shadow Wilderness. The gods have once again intervened,

> but Laerme`s avatar has been cleverly captured by The Gorgon who seeks

> to exinguish Larme`s Flame of Hope from the world...



Have you read much of the "Iron Kingdoms" stuff? For some reason, after

reading your idea, I like the concept of an over-lithified Gorgon who has had

to chop himself a bit and attach the bits to a giant steam-jack to move around.



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

-----------------------------------------------------

- Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.

Birthright-L
02-03-2004, 04:30 PM
> Have you read much of the "Iron Kingdoms" stuff? For some reason, after

> reading your idea, I like the concept of an over-lithified Gorgon who

> has had

> to chop himself a bit and attach the bits to a giant steam-jack to move

> around.



Yeah, it`s a combination of Birthright and Witchfire. I got tired of

waiting for the official Iron Kingdoms campaign release that was

promised in 2001, so I decided to use Birthright. Works well, I think.

;)



--Lord Rahvin

ConjurerDragon
02-03-2004, 05:50 PM
John Machin schrieb:



>Osprey:

>

>

>> I think he`d be far less of a threat as a pure fighter...FAR less.

>>

>>

>Possibly, but in 2e he could look at people and kill them once per round for

>free. That`s pretty damn threatening if you ask me!;)

>

>

Yes, but in 2E the simple 1st level wizard spell "Gaze Reflection" would

have granted total protection against that ability.

Now in 3E the protection against gaze attacks is less perfect with only

50% protection AND itīs no longer 1st, but a 2nd level spell.



>Exactly.

>I don`t see anywhere the kind of career change needed to make the Gorgon the

>equal of pretty much any wizard in Anuire (bar that Lichey Sidhe from PS:

>Tuarhievel... no comment...). I like the idea of the Gorgon as a brutal tyrant

>who plans well, but I do not see that means he -must- be a wizard. I think its

>more interesting if he isn`t, and if he just has a cadre of wizards who are

>trying to curry his favour (i.e. stay alive) and murder their rivals.

>

Arenīt two failed large-scale invasions of Anuire not enough reason for

an intelligent being with lots of time having the long life

bloodability to search for other ways to achieve itīs goal?

bye

Michael

Trithemius
02-04-2004, 03:30 AM
Anthony Juarez:

> Yeah, it`s a combination of Birthright and Witchfire. I got tired of

> waiting for the official Iron Kingdoms campaign release that was

> promised in 2001, so I decided to use Birthright. Works well, I think.

> ;)



The Iron Kingdoms "Monsternomicon" is pretty neat. Some interesting prestige

classes, and a neat little system to help codify what the -characters- know

about the capabilities and weaknesses of monsters. I like the neat fey-

creatures too, some of them are really easily dropped into BR.



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

-----------------------------------------------------

- Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.

Trithemius
02-04-2004, 03:30 AM
Michael Romes:

> Yes, but in 2E the simple 1st level wizard spell "Gaze Reflection"

> would have granted total protection against that ability.

> Now in 3E the protection against gaze attacks is less perfect with only

> 50% protection AND itīs no longer 1st, but a 2nd level spell.



Wizard`s have their own vulnerabilities, I am sure you will agree; especially

when facing one of the most powerful warriors in Cerilia.



> Arenīt two failed large-scale invasions of Anuire not enough reason for

> an intelligent being with lots of time having the long life

> bloodability to search for other ways to achieve itīs goal?



Who says they were failed? It has been commented on that the Gorgon likes to

treat the bloodlines of Anuire as vines - to be cultivated and then plucked

when they are ready. Perhaps these "failed invasions" were just pretexts to

draw out Anuire`s best and brightest so they could be killed by Ol` Stonebutt?

Isn`t more worrying to contemplate the idea that they weren`t meant to succeed?

Perhaps the reason that the Gorgon has not conquered Anuire yet is because he`s

not ready to... not while there are still a few more Great bloodlines to be

harvested...



Smart, evil, powerful - the Gorgon is all these things. He`s doesn`t need to be

a wizard to be them though.



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

-----------------------------------------------------

- Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.

Birthright-L
02-04-2004, 06:50 AM
> The Iron Kingdoms "Monsternomicon" is pretty neat. Some interesting

> prestige

> classes, and a neat little system to help codify what the -characters-

> know

> about the capabilities and weaknesses of monsters. I like the neat fey-

> creatures too, some of them are really easily dropped into BR.



One of my players loves its treasure system. Monsters don`t drop

treasure; rather the monster entry suggests methods of getting money

from the monster`s carcass. Stuff like "Niag`s eyes are useful in

making alchemists fire. One eye is enough for half a year. They can

sell for 4,000gp for a fresh, pererved pair." At least, that`s what I

heard.



Eventually, I`ll start doing that in Birthright. It`d be especially

cool in any realm outside Anuire or Brechtur, I think. Right now I just

do adventure hooks that way. "Help! Help! The siege engineers need

Niag`s eyes!" : )



But yeah, I think the Iron Kingdoms stuff mix well with Birthright.

They are both very rich, wonderful settings with a very *real* flavor

that is overshadowed only be a fanatical need to comply with unreal,

literary flawed presumptions of D&D (any edition).



--Lord Rahvin

Birthright-L
02-04-2004, 06:50 AM
> Who says they were failed? It has been commented on that the Gorgon

> likes to

> treat the bloodlines of Anuire as vines - to be cultivated and then

> plucked

> when they are ready. Perhaps these "failed invasions" were just

> pretexts to

> draw out Anuire`s best and brightest so they could be killed by Ol`

> Stonebutt?



Maybe it`s just the stereotypically villainness of it, but I prefer to

think of the Gorgon as frustrated and more than a little desperate

rather that having a grand plot that is all going according to the

Master Plan. I don`t like to think of him as a strategic genius with

long-range plans so much as an opportunist who is cunning and

intuitive.



What do you say we all compromise and give him Bard levels instead?

(ducks!)



--Lord Rahvin

Trithemius
02-04-2004, 10:30 AM
Anthony Juarez:

> Maybe it`s just the stereotypically villainness of it, but I prefer to

> think of the Gorgon as frustrated and more than a little desperate

> rather that having a grand plot that is all going according to the

> Master Plan. I don`t like to think of him as a strategic genius with

> long-range plans so much as an opportunist who is cunning and

> intuitive.



Poor villains.

I like to ensure my campaign`s key villain(s) are at least as clever as the

players. Intelligence on the part of NPCs trumps "more power" nearly every

time, in my opinion.



> What do you say we all compromise and give him Bard levels instead?

> (ducks!)



To that I give a succint "no".



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

-----------------------------------------------------

- Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.

Osprey
02-04-2004, 11:10 PM
Poor villains.
I like to ensure my campaign`s key villain(s) are at least as clever as the
players. Intelligence on the part of NPCs trumps "more power" nearly every
time, in my opinion.


Agreed. There&#39;s nothing I love more than demonstrating to players how a smart opponent is the deadliest sort, especially because smart villains don&#39;t stick around and fight till the bitter end if things aren&#39;t going their way. Smart villains live longer and tend to pick fights on THEIR terms...as any PC group knows, good planning goes a long way, and a villain with a good plan and enough skills and resources to make it work is a very dangerous enemy...

-Osprey