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camelotcrusade
01-23-2004, 10:41 PM
Hi everybody,

I created some heraldic icons for my campaign that we I are using to spice things up. Arjan was groovy enough to put it in the download section so you all could check it out if you want.

************************************************** ******************
WARNING: The heraldic icons created in this supplement were modeled from art that first appeared in BIRTHRIGHT: The Gorgon’s Alliance, a computer game published by Sierra in 1997. Though a far cry from the intricacies of true medieval heraldry, the color schemes used in my art are simple and easy to recognize.
************************************************** ******************

So, please don't flame me telling me I don't know what real heralds are, attaching 100 links to real heralds, etc. Consider my use of herald a relative term. If you're hardcore into heraldry, don't look! Still, you guys are too cool to do that anyway, right? :rolleyes:

Here's a tidbit from my intro:
Whether amidst the confusion of battle or cresting the horizon on a foggy morning, these symbols are meant to create a sense of identity for the realms of Anuire. I have created them for use in my personal campaign, and here are some of the uses I have found for
them:

• Logos for realm documents you create or to put on character sheets
• Pennants or banners for use during the war card game
• As a role-playing device, for example describing only the colors of a tattered
pennant found on the field of a recent battle
• Above all to deepen the sense of identity and individuality for each realm

You can find it in the downloads section or by going here:

Anuirean Heralds (http://www.birthright.net/download/Anuirean%20Heralds.zip)

Hope you like it,

camelotcrusade

kgauck
01-24-2004, 05:04 PM
When I get an old hard drive back, with my favorite paint program on it, I

plan to do an armorial of the Taelshore.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

Athos69
01-25-2004, 01:47 AM
No flames here for your hard work.

What I would like to see though, is a discussion about an armorial of the various realms and Ducal Houses, and the colours associated with those Arms. I have a large number of graphic Heralds at my disposal and would love to get working an an Anuirean Roll of Arms for the various nations. I doubt that the Sidhe or goblins have anything analogous to heraldry, but the Karamhul very well might...

-Mike

camelotcrusade
01-25-2004, 04:42 AM
Hi, I'm glad you checked it out. Sorry the download is so big, but it does have everything. If you just want an individual gif or two feel free to send me an e-mail.

I would love to see what real heralds you guys have come up with, too.

I probably shouldn't ask this, but does anybody like this style besides me? I must be blinded by art!! :P

CMonkey
01-25-2004, 08:45 AM
I had a look though too. Good stuff, but I was slightly disappointed that they were all four-quarters-square partitions. Some vertical/horisontal/diagonal-bisected, diagonal-stripe and so on might make them a bit more distinctive.

Sample Blazons:
http://www.btinternet.com/~nigel.kenningto...ht/gfx/blazons/ (http://www.btinternet.com/~nigel.kennington/Birthright/gfx/blazons/)

Thanks for publishing your stuff though!

CM.

Mr.Froggatt
01-25-2004, 11:16 AM
I started to download camelotcrusade's heralds, but it looked like it was going to take a couple of hours... is that 'cos there's something wrong with my computer, or is it a really big file?

I also took a look at Cmonkey's website - I like what you've done (although all the 3rd Ed rules are kinda lost on me) I nicked a lot of your shields, I hope that's ok? One day I'll get a better computer and start sharing my resourses with all the people I've stolen stuff off!

CMonkey
01-25-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Froggatt@Jan 25 2004, 11:16 AM
I started to download camelotcrusade's heralds, but it looked like it was going to take a couple of hours... is that 'cos there's something wrong with my computer, or is it a really big file?

It's a really big file.

CM.

Athos69
01-25-2004, 02:58 PM
Doing a very quick glance th the files on CMonkey's site, in proper heraldic lingo, al of those field divisions would, in a proper blazon, have the word 'per' preceeding them to denote that they are field divisions, and not ordinaries. Ordinaries are charges placed on the field, and whule many of them have the dame names as field divisions, they are a seperate class...

(in the SCA as HL Anthony Hawke, herald in the Kingdom of An Tir)

CMonkey
01-25-2004, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Athos69@Jan 25 2004, 02:58 PM
Doing a very quick glance th the files on CMonkey's site, in proper heraldic lingo, al of those field divisions would, in a proper blazon, have the word 'per' preceeding them to denote that they are field divisions, and not ordinaries. Ordinaries are charges placed on the field, and whule many of them have the dame names as field divisions, they are a seperate class...

This at least costs us nothing to be accurate about. Filenames duely changed.

I don't quite understand what "ordinaries" are though, can you elaborate (or show an example)?

CM.

RaspK_FOG
01-25-2004, 11:47 PM
Well, I liked the heraldries you put in there, but I have to agree with CMonkey...

If you won't to download it and do not have the time to do at once, use a download manager like GetRight, or Opera's download manager. This way, you can continue downloading from where you stopped, and you can even download multiple streams: while this is a bit dangerous, since there is a slight possibility the file could be downloaded incorrectly (0,1%), it generally is much faster.

Athos69
01-26-2004, 10:52 AM
OK... here's a quick example... In a heraldic blazon, if you state that the arms are: Per pale gules and argent, you are indicating that the field is being divided into two parts, using a vertical line, and the leftmost portion od gules (red) and teh rightmost is argent (white). This is an example of a field division. For the purposes of heraldry, this is considered to be the same layer of the Arms.

If, on the other hand, your blazon is: Gules, a pale argent, you have a gules (red) field, and a pale argent (a vertical stripe usually 1/3 of the width of the arms in white) centered on the field. This is adding a second layer (the pale) to the gules field.

Th fun part is when you place charges (layers) over to of each other -- since you will need to maintain good visual contrast between the layers.

This is usually done by making sure that you place colour on metal or metal on colour. placing metal on metal or colour on colour will not give you good contrast and will mess up identifiability at any sort of distance.

There are two metals used in Heraldry -- argent (white) and Or (yellow)
There are five colours used -- gules (red), vert (green), azure (blue), purpure (purple) and sable (black).

Thus ends the first class of Heraldry 101.

kgauck
01-26-2004, 01:00 PM
----- Original Message -----

From: "Athos69" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 4:52 AM





> placing metal on metal or colour on colour will not give you good

> contrast and will mess up identifiability at any sort of distance.



Its this good sense here that has me insisting that the rules of blazon be

followed in general in BR heraldry.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

camelotcrusade
01-26-2004, 02:22 PM
Thanks for the suggestion CMonkey, I had about 10 different designs but I decided to break up them up by region (brechtur, vos lands, khinasi, etc.). I&#39;m not sure why I decided that, but I think it&#39;s because as an artist I value consistency between related media. But now that I think of it I suppose I always thought the flags of the world that are just three stripes (however you color them) are the most boring... :blink:

I guess the computer game is a bad influence on me, I don&#39;t know&#33; I&#39;ve always really liked the sea of dual-colored heralds spread across the map, especially when it&#39;s mine.

I also made a bunch of terrain and weather cards that I sent to Arjan and someday you will see those on here, too. Those all look different, too. :P

For now I&#39;m going to turn my attention to writing something for the Atlas, but thanks to everyone who downloaded and commented&#33;&#33;

camelotcrusade

Athos69
01-26-2004, 06:43 PM
Wth apologies to the SCA, here is a basic handout we have for people just getting into the SCA and thinking about getting a device registered.

Your heraldic device (informally, your "coat of arms") is essentially your personal "logo," and identifies you the way a company&#39;s logo identifies the company. On a banner, it tells everyone you&#39;re at an event. On a shield, it tells who&#39;s on the field fighting. On tableware, it tells whose place it&#39;s at. On clothing, it tells who&#39;s in the clothing.
The heraldic device originated in war. During the chaos of battle, you had to decide within seconds whether someone approaching was friend or enemy. The device evolved to allow this; painted on a shield, it told who was behind that shield. It was so helpful for identification during war that it soon spread into peacetime use as well. Since a device identified the man who displayed it, it was very important that no two men have the same device. Colleges of Arms came into being to resolve conflicting claims on a device, and the heralds gradually assumed the job of keeping track of who owned which device. In the S.C.A., we have our own College of Arms to insure that each member has his or her own unique device. A heraldic device is made of a number of charges (objects, creatures, or geometric shapes) arranged n a field (or background). Ideally, the result is simple, memorable, and easily identified. To help you create a good device, the heralds restrict the possible colors, poses, and arrangements of charges in your device. they do not restrict the objects or creatures you can choose from (except that you may only use period objects or creatures). Nor do the heralds care what artistic style you draw your device in, as long as the style was used in the heraldry of some place or time. You can, for example, use the smooth cat-like lions of the 12th century, the wild-haired lions of the 15th century, or the naturalistic lions of the late 16th century.
Good devices have as few charges and colors as possible. The best devices fill the roughly triangular shield with one or three identical charges, and use only two colors (examples 1 and 2). More often, you&#39;ll have to use more than one kind of charge, or more than two colors. Even then, you should use as few kinds of charges (and as few of each sind) as you can, and no more colors than you must.
Good devices repeat themselves. If the same kind of charge appears three places, all three are identical. They&#39;re the same color, in the same pose, and facing the same direction (examples 2-4). "Mirror imaging," with charges that face one another, is a modern style; it wasn&#39;t used in medieval heraldry.
Good devices make it easy to identify each charge. Animals are posed to show as much of the animal as possible (examples 1 and 4). Other charges are drawn to make them as distinctive as possible. And all charges are drawn as large as possible while still fitting in the space available.
Finally, good devices have high contrast between their parts. As much as possible, light charges (white, silver, yellow, or gold) are put on dark fields (red, green, blue, purple, or black), and vice versa. (Traffic and street signs all do this, to be as easy as possible to read.)
When you design your device, always work with your local or Kingdom heralds. They&#39;re there to help you, and they&#39;re happy to do so. They know the rules, and they know how to design good devices. As well, they can show you various charges you can use. When you&#39;re ready, they can even make sure your device is different from any other device in the S.C.A.
Get together with your herald and his books, or drop by a "Heraldic Consultation Table" at any event which has one.
Once your device looks legal and unique, make sure you like it. Put it up on your refrigerator, or in your office, for a few weeks. If you&#39;re still as happy with it afterwards, give it to the heralds to begin the process of "registering" it, so it can be uniquely yours in the S.C.A.
Good luck&#33;
© Glen Fisher, Leslie A. Schweitzer, and Floyd Bullock(12/1/92)

Athos69
01-26-2004, 06:46 PM
One other thing, this was taken from: Heraldic College of An Tir (http://www.antirheralds.org/education/armory/hdevice.pdf)

ConjurerDragon
01-26-2004, 09:41 PM
Athos69 schrieb:



>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=2207

> Athos69 wrote:

> Wth apologies to the SCA, here is a basic handout we have for people just getting into the SCA and thinking about getting a device registered.

> Your heraldic device (informally, your "coat of arms") is essentially your personal "logo," and identifies you the way a company`s logo identifies the company. On a banner, it tells everyone you`re at an event. On a shield, it tells who`s on the field fighting. On tableware, it tells whose place it`s at. On clothing, it tells who`s in the clothing.

> The heraldic device originated in war. During the chaos of battle, you had to decide within seconds whether someone approaching was friend or enemy. The device evolved to allow this; painted on a shield, it told who was behind that shield. It was so helpful for identification during war that it soon spread into peacetime use as well. Since a device identified the man who displayed it, it was very important that no two men have the same device.

>

A question about this: Has heraldry developed only after closed helmets

were used and you could no longer see the face of your enemy? If so then

perhaps Rjurik and Khinasi who prefer nasaled helmets which let others

recognize the face would be less likely to use heraldic devices?

bye

Michael

kgauck
01-26-2004, 10:31 PM
----- Original Message -----

From: "Michael Romes" <Archmage@T-ONLINE.DE>

Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 2:53 PM





> A question about this: Has heraldry developed only after closed helmets

> were used and you could no longer see the face of your enemy? If so then

> perhaps Rjurik and Khinasi who prefer nasaled helmets which let others

> recognize the face would be less likely to use heraldic devices?



Who is that group of horseman who are comming down the hill towards us?

Even if they are naked they are too far away to identify. If they have

banners and shields with heraldric symbols, we know who they are at quite a

distance.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

Athos69
01-27-2004, 12:11 AM
Heraldry became a codified and exacting system when full closed helms became the norm, but banners, standards, shield designs and national symbold have been around since the days of tribal identities.

For an excellent example, look at Rome. Each Legion had an individual standard that signified which Legion was on the field.

So to answer your question,. yes, heraldry existed before closed face helms, but it wasn&#39;t as advanced as it became later.