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HarlGraystorm
12-14-2003, 03:11 AM
Are there any GOOD BRPBEMs out there? Everything I see is either always on hiatus, or simply neglected.

Anybody have any good recommendations?

Green Knight
12-14-2003, 07:48 AM
Perhaps define GOOD?



-----Original Message-----

From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion

[mailto:BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of HarlGraystorm

Sent: 14. desember 2003 04:12

To: BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM

Subject: Good Pbems? [2#2138]



This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

You can view the entire thread at:

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HarlGraystorm wrote:

Are there any GOOD BRPBEMs out there? Everything I see is either

always on hiatus, or simply neglected.Anybody have any good

recommendations?



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Birthright-l Archives:

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HarlGraystorm
12-14-2003, 07:58 AM
Good being one that is active and won't die after 2 weeks. :o)

teloft
12-14-2003, 08:23 AM
HarlGraystorm Im looking for few more players.
Go to http://land.vortex.is/forum/

Fearless_Leader
12-14-2003, 09:19 AM
PBeMs seem to come and go in waves. There'll be a period of time when there's several underway or just getting started... even if they don't make it past the first turn. And then there'll be a period of time when there's almost nothing. We seem to be at the low point of that. There might be a total of 3 or 4 games going on right now.

Green Knight
12-14-2003, 10:57 PM
Ruins of Empire is still running, and shows no signs of dying anytime

soon.



The game has run continously from the Autumn of 2000, and is currently

starting on the 29th turn. The game is not currently seeking new

players, but that may change in the future.



Cheers

Bjørn

A_dark
12-15-2003, 02:00 PM
www.birthrightonline.com

After finishing a 50turn Anuirean campaign we have started anew in Khinasi....

Currently in turn 8 and always accepting players

Benjamin
12-15-2003, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by A_dark@Dec 15 2003, 09:00 AM
Currently in turn 8 and always accepting players
Because so many positions are hopeless!

I've played in LEBR 3x now. Each regent I played had a negative income each turn due to maintenance costs and no income. I quit each regent after 3 turns usually because I was bankrupt.

I've also felt that LEBR is run by about 5 people who know each othe really well and plot, plan, connive, and act together for their mutual benefit. If you aren't in that group, you lose.

Just my 3 cents on that particular game.

As far as a 'good' PBEM, I don't know of any. Sorry I'm not able to add to the topic.

A_dark
12-15-2003, 07:28 PM
If you would care to elaborate on these allegations, feel free to email me at azrai@spitaki.org. From my point of view, you are wrong :P

Don E
12-16-2003, 03:46 PM
Because so many positions are hopeless!

I've played in LEBR 3x now. Each regent I played had a negative income each turn due to maintenance costs and no income. I quit each regent after 3 turns usually because I was bankrupt.


I thought LeBR was one of the PBeMs following the original 2ed BR rules the closest? If not, in what ways have they changed the domains/rules so that the maintenance is too high?

(Please note, I have never participated so I am just asking out of curiosity.)
Cheers,
Don E

HarlGraystorm
12-19-2003, 06:35 AM
The Green Knight,
I looked all over for Ruins of Empire, no PBEMs of that name are currently running that I can see. Do you have a website for it?

Green Knight
12-19-2003, 11:12 AM
It’s a yahoogroups-site. That`s probably why you didn`t find it.



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RuinsofEmpire/



The site is members-only, so you`ll have to apply for membership before

you get access to it.



You can also contact the DM at:



Bjorn_sorgjerd@hotmail.com



Cheers

Bjørn





-----Original Message-----

From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion

[mailto:BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of HarlGraystorm

Sent: 19. desember 2003 07:35

To: BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM

Subject: Re: Good Pbems? [2#2138]



This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

You can view the entire thread at:

http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=2138



HarlGraystorm wrote:

The Green Knight,

I looked all over for Ruins of Empire, no PBEMs of that name are

currently running that I can see. Do you have a website for it?



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****



Birthright-l Archives:

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Benjamin
12-19-2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Don E@Dec 16 2003, 10:46 AM
I thought LeBR was one of the PBeMs following the original 2ed BR rules the closest? If not, in what ways have they changed the domains/rules so that the maintenance is too high?
Because the regents I got to play weren't very good. :)

I played law regents that didn't own any provinces, or when they did, they didn't have enough law holdings to generate tax income. Throw in a couple military units and court costs, and your maintenance is greater than income.

Them's the breaks.

A_dark
12-19-2003, 01:48 PM
Yes, but that's not the game's fault, is it? There are always some shitty regents, but when you apply for someone so small as your picks, you should have anticipated such problems. It is also not the game's fault or the DM's that the other players did not help you out....

Anyways... I will reply to your email once I am done with doing turns...

vorshlumpf
12-22-2003, 12:35 AM
Benjamin, I've been involved with LeBR for about 2 years now. Your initial comments about it amount pretty much to just sour grapes.


I've also felt that LEBR is run by about 5 people who know each othe really well and plot, plan, connive, and act together for their mutual benefit. If you aren't in that group, you lose.

The first LeBR started with a group of University students in Leicester, England. As such, a bunch of the players in the game did know each other. However, they did not run the game. And that is not even an issue now, just as it wasn't an issue back in the final days of LeBR 1.0 when the player for OIT pulled one of the most idiotic moves I had ever seen in a 'role-player'.

For those that are interested in a consisten PBeM game, none has been more dependable than LeBR. It has had it's ups and downs, of course, but it has stayed the course. Feel free to ask any of the players of LeBR 2.0 in our game forum (http://birthrightonline.loginov.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi), and I can guarantee that you'll get honest answers, including the good and the bad.

MJH
12-23-2003, 04:08 PM
If the players do not have controll over what resources thier domain has during generation and some domains have negative income I would not fault the players. If I choose to have many non income generating holdings then it is my funeral.

If I cannot choose my domain assets or view them before play begins, the fault lies squarely with the DM if some kingdoms have to beg for scraps form other kingdoms to survive.

ConjurerDragon
12-24-2003, 12:30 AM
MJH schrieb:

> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=2138

> MJH wrote:

> If the players do not have controll over what resources thier domain has during generation

> and some domains have negative income I would not fault the players. If I choose to have many

> non income generating holdings then it is my funeral.

>If I cannot choose my domain assets or view them before play begins, the fault lies squarely

> with the DM if some kingdoms have to beg for scraps form other kingdoms to survive.



That depends.

In a game that tries to give each and every player a start which is

balanced against each other player, then certainly a domain as described

here would not seem balanced if other players do not have the same problems.



However if we leave the need for balance aside, as in some games players

are needed to play great kings, but also lowly guilders, magnificient

mages, but also poor hedge wizards, powerful Hierarchs of great

churches, but also the Abbot of a single temple then such a situation

could arise.



For example the computergame for Birthright: The Gorgon´s Alliance

(which very simple if using diplomacy to get non-landed regents to

become your vassals and hand over all their holdings) could be started

with a lot of VERY different regents, varying in class, bloodline

strenght, number and type of holdings, provinces and so on - depending

on which regent you would chose the game could be even more easy, or a

lot harder - the regents did not start all with the same

bloodlinestrenght or realms of exactly equal power.



Or the 2E domain generation system - it allowed you to build your own

domain by spending domain points. However the number of domain points

was a random factor depending on your bloodline Strengh which again, was

determined randomly. So characters could start with a huge difference in

domain points and thus with a huge difference in income or power of the

realms they played.

bye

Michael

diablo
12-26-2003, 12:41 AM
Hello to all.
I am playing in LEBR game as elven wizardress.
The game is stable, it is not unbalanced as Ben suggested, it is far better than that - DMs are trying to balance the game better than the setting proposed at start!
FX: no ruling up of provinces until time passes from the last successful start.

I like it, and am learning to love it. The only thing I see as problem is that elven nations have it too rough and binding (example: no "money" per se - instead they have "goods")

The greatest thing is the interface: Web turn report submittal. Point and click and choose the actions. Who couldn't respond to the easiness by which I finish my report in 5 minutes?

The few players plotting together is simply a normal thing. They do not dictate DMs and you could be one of them easily.
There are several goups there and the gamestory dirt flows to the surface from time to time.

I look eagerly to the new turn9 news.

Oh, the last but foremost. Turns are almost never late. Fast, efficient, and even if the rules are being modified to be more realistic, very interesting to play.

Come and see. It really isn't game's fault if someone wants to play a knight owner of law holdings with a lot of units and no money to pay them. Big appetite can get you done in no time.

Rhuannach is free to take, if someone is interested.

See you around.
Mario.

Eric Saxon
01-01-2004, 04:02 AM
Oh, this is funny.

I played in LEBR 1 and that was a good game. But the DMs in the Khinasi game play favorites. Don't believe me. I applied for a domain and turned in my submission first but one of the DMs gave the domain to his or her (not sure) brother.

The reason I was given was that the other player was a better role-player. Funny, since I never played with these new DMs but they knew that one of their own's brother was a better role-player. So if you want to play a game where a DM's brother gets preferential treatment, then LEBR is for you. I just hope you are related to one of the DMs. :)

Otherwise, I advise everyone else to avoid the game and those DMs. I also quit playing PBEMs because (I BELIEVE) these people play as a team in other PBEMs.

A_dark
01-02-2004, 08:13 AM
I was a player in LEBR1 and the DM in question in LEBR2, so I know first hand what kind of roleplayer you were. The player selection and matching to characters process was up to me entirely and the goal was to match players to characters. It had been made perfectly clear that we were not going to use a first-apply first-get method, because in my opinion it is stupid.... you cannot have people that wish to play LE/Tael style, get Khourane, because Khourane is ruled by a benevolent CG mage....

As for the DMs working together in other PBEMs, I have never played in another PBEM... at least not one that has lasted more than 1d4-1 turns, so, obviously I've never cooperated with someone in another game...(I have so far been in Shattered Crown as Swordmage for 1 turn and in Heavens of the Great Bay as a Kriesha priestess in the Vampire's lands for 2 turns and in ITSODII for 0 turns as Talinie) As for cooperating with others in LEBR1 (which is the only game I've been in that has lasted)... I should point out that I was boeruine and by the end of the game, Boeruine was completely alienated (for his own reasons) from the rest of Anuire... His only allies were NIT (but not Talinie), his guilder, his mage and his wife (Mhistecai).

IMHO, your leaving the game was not a loss for the game, as much harsh as that may sound.... As far as I know you have a tendency to be rude and agressive and agree OOC for things that should be discussed IC.

Kalak
01-03-2004, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Eric Saxon@Jan 1 2004, 05:02 AM

Otherwise, I advise everyone else to avoid the game and those DMs. I also quit playing PBEMs because (I BELIEVE) these people play as a team in other PBEMs.
Heed mr Saxon's advice and avoid PBEMs altogether. The evil team of LEBR will inevitably conquer your PBEM mwahhahahaha. We are spawns of Azrai that seek to dominate all life mwhahahahaha. Fear, terror and PBEM domination is our game.


BTW. mr Saxon prefers to settle diplomatic negotiations after a war OOC to "save time". Yep, that's roleplaying 101 for ye

DanMcSorley
01-03-2004, 06:01 PM
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004, Kalak wrote:

> Yep, that`s roleplaying 101 for ye



You know what, no one cares. Take your crap from an IC game off the

forum.



--

Daniel McSorley

Kalak
01-05-2004, 01:49 PM
I honestly don't care if anyone cares or not. I do however respond when attacked. I won't continue with it though

Eric Saxon
01-15-2004, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Kalak@Jan 3 2004, 04:51 PM
[QUOTE=Eric Saxon,Jan 1 2004, 05:02 AM]

BTW. mr Saxon prefers to settle diplomatic negotiations after a war OOC to "save time". Yep, that's roleplaying 101 for ye
Huh?

Really?

Amazing?

I was playing Halskapa in LEBR. And I don't remember fighting any wars in that game. Actually, I have been involved in only 2 wars in all the PBEMs I have played and none of those wars were ever resolved, since the games went dead in both those turns and neither one was at a point of a peace resolution. So let me ask you, when you are speaking about MR. Saxon are you talking about me or maybe one of the other two Mr. Saxons I have met in the game. I don't mind someone talking smack I would just like them to get their info correct. I am ERIC there is also an Adam and the third I forgot.

Are you sure you know who you are talking about?

Rowan
01-24-2004, 09:34 AM
Wow. Depressing.

If any game lends itself to the PBEM model, I would think it would be Birthright. I love the game, love the system--especially the new 3e BRCS, AWESOME work, guys!--and would LOVE to find a good PBEM.

Alas, I have just spent hours searching in vain for a single active Birthright PBEM that uses the new 3e rules. The only one I can find that seems to be running well and is accepting players is RoE--but they appear to use 2nd edition rules. Bleh. 3e is so much better and simpler I'd rather stick with it.

So, despite Birthright being a truly turn-based game that should have promising PBEMs all over the net, there's pretty much nothing. Must I bury my dreams?

Unless I am wrong. ARE there any 3e PBEMS? Will they/have they survived the first or second turns? Are they accepting new players?

Night of Fire looked incredibly promising, but it is dead, too, due to health and time problems of the DM.

In case you hadn't noticed, I'm fairly desperate for a BR game. I've never actually gotten the chance to play one for any length (beyond 4 sessions), despite DMing them myself.

Can anyone help me out? PLEASE? I just want some (BR) play!

A_dark
01-24-2004, 11:37 AM
As it was said above the www.birthrightonline.com game lasts.... our first game lasted for 40turns and upon its completion after half a year or so we began the second game.... (the players knew about it and most of the old ones came over to the new one)

You can try the game yourself and form your own unbiased opinion...

Don E
01-24-2004, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by Rowan@Jan 24 2004, 10:34 AM
Alas, I have just spent hours searching in vain for a single active Birthright PBEM that uses the new 3e rules. The only one I can find that seems to be running well and is accepting players is RoE--but they appear to use 2nd edition rules. Bleh. 3e is so much better and simpler I'd rather stick with it.
Hmm, I'm not sure why RoE appears to be 2e. The game should be completely 3.5e compliant by now (not that it is much of a change from 3e). That said everybody should please note that the game does not use the BRCS conversion found at BR.net. Instead it uses our own conversion and a number of house rules.

If you are interested you are free to join and have a look around.

Cheers,
Even

Rowan
01-24-2004, 10:01 PM
My apologies. Birthrightonline is 2e (which I cannot stomach), not RoE. RoE does look interesting, and it may be the only 3e possibility out there (though I dearly hope that Night of Fire gets restarted). However, there are a LOT of different rules and house rules in RoE.

While many of those seem good or useful, I still think I prefer BRCS. With only a slight amount of tweaking, BRCS provides a very easy to learn and use, simple and elegant system that is a good (enough) reflection of reality while providing a lot of flexibility (again, kudos to the game designers).

RoE rules run the risk of being or becoming too cumbersome, or simply being too varied. The great advance of 3e over 2e DnD was how the system was streamlined and made simple yet flexible. While the 3e system format still bears some huge inherent handicaps that will always lead to mass proliferation of things like classes, feats and spells, it was overall much easier to understand and balance well than 2e was.

All reasons why I can never go back to 2e (and hence, birthrightonline). I just worry that RoE will have similar difficulties. I'm willing to give it a try.

ryancaveney
01-25-2004, 08:10 PM
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Rowan wrote:



> My apologies. Birthrightonline is 2e (which I cannot stomach), not

> RoE. RoE does look interesting, and it may be the only 3e possibility

> out there (though I dearly hope that Night of Fire gets restarted).

> However, there are a LOT of different rules and house rules in RoE.



It`s been a while since I`ve played in a BR PBEM, but I`ve got to say --

how exactly does the underlying RPG system matter at all? Do you really

go on adventure actions that often? In my experience, PBEM BR is best

when it uses only domain rules, with as little reference to individual

character stats as possible. I find it difficult to imagine 2e vs. 3e

having much of an effect on the domain scale, especially in a PBEM.



As for house rules, they come naturally with the territory. Finding a BR

DM anywhere without lots of house rules is almost impossible, since the

original rules left a whole lot of things wide open to interpretation --

and specific decisions about such things (I will not at this point mention

by name any of the many ancient debates) need to be made in order to play.

And once you`ve made all the necessary clarifications, you start to make

what you consider "fixes" (because there do seem to be rather a lot of

goofs or false leads, and there is great disagreement about what counts as

such, of course), and by then who can resist the temptation to add

whatever other things they think would be fun? =)



> The great advance of 3e over 2e DnD was how the system was streamlined

> and made simple yet flexible.



Which is essentially invisible at the domain scale of play. Literally the

only PHB-scale information about a character actually necessary to play

the domain game is class and level. That`s it. Yes, 2e and 3e have

different rules on what combinations are allowed to whom, but almost every

rule change (e.g., whether better armor means a negative AC or a positive

one) important to dungeon-crawling gameplay is totally irrelevant to

domain-ruling gameplay. War Cards, if you use them, do allow spellcasters

to cast certain specific spells, but since at that scale there is no

difference between fireball and lightning bolt, nor between cloudkill and

prismatic spray, the changes made to the spell lists are not very

important either -- but I`ve never known a PBEM that let the players run

the war card battles from round to round. That would take way too much

time and too many back-and-forth messages.



> While the 3e system format still bears some huge inherent handicaps

> that will always lead to mass proliferation of things like classes,

> feats and spells, it was overall much easier to understand and balance

> well than 2e was.



Again, this is pretty much moot for domain rulership. Neither standard

Cleave nor the latest Super-Cool Neato Peachy Keen Cleave have any

important (nor really even measurable) effect on battles with 5,000

men-at-arms per side.



> All reasons why I can never go back to 2e (and hence, birthrightonline).



Again I must question whether any of the changes in the adventuring party

ruleset can even be noticed at the domain scale. Give the 2e PBEMs a

chance -- they really can`t be all that different. There just isn`t that

much that was "2e" about the parts of BR readily gameable by email.





Ryan Caveney

Rowan
01-25-2004, 11:10 PM
I was using the brief rant about 2e vs. 3e adventuring rules as an example of my reluctance to join either an old school AD&D BR game or a new version that has much departure from the simple, streamlined beauty of BRCS.

I agree, the underlying rules, as far as adventuring goes, don't matter to the playability of Birthright in PBEM. However, BRCS and, I believe, most new versions of BR domain rules based on the d20 system are superior in my eyes to the AD&D BR domain ruleset.

Basically, with something as much more playable as BRCS than AD&D BR, I'd rather not go back to AD&D BR. For one thing, there were a lot more factors to keep track of (like die rolls for taxes and the old maintenance cost system) that weren't easily interrelated (like in a d20 resolution system).

BRCS might not be perfect, but I think it's very flexible and certainly playable (and makes sense, once you correct minor things like the maintenance cost of stone bridges).

So, anyone playing in a good BRCS PBEM, or would be interested in starting one (with multiple DMs to help avoid crashing and burning in d4-1 turns)?