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A_dark
12-03-2003, 10:47 PM
Summoning does not work exactly like the Monster Summoning spells.... There is a fundamental difference. Creatures in the realm spell are transported from one place in the Prime Material to another and after the spell ends, they don't teleport back, but they stay to pillage the place...

This brings some questions

1) Can you Dispel the Summoning? What exactly is dispelled? The control (and the ogres start to pillage the province)? The summon itself (and the ogres are teleported back home)?

2) Can you dispel a Monster Summoning spell?

In other words... the existence of the ogres in the province, AFTER they have been summoned, is depended on magic and therefore can be dispelled? The control of the caster is depended on magic and therefore can be dispelled?

Any input/insight is most welcome

Osprey
12-04-2003, 08:36 PM
Summoned creatures from the realm spell are described as "quasi-real" creatures. I've always figured they were summoned from the Shadow World, and are much like creatures you might conjure with a Shadow Conjuration spell. The only difference seeming to be that they have full stats (attack, hp, etc.).

Keep in mind that there's only a small percentage chance that the creatures will become real and stay in this world when the spell's duration expires.

One way to resolve the question you posed is to think of it as the fact that when the spell ends, the creatures have a strong enough desire to become real that they manage to do so, almost as if they had made a collective Will save. The percentage chance might also represent a chance of random occurence - the Shadow World is close enough at that place and time that they aren't drawn back in, but instead are able to give themselves more solid substance. I generally roll seperately for each surviving summoned unit, however, just to make things more interesting and less of an all-or-nothing situation when multiple units are involved.

As to what creatures are summoned, I like the BRCS version that makes them more generalized and equated with the Monster Summoning spells. What this allows is for any alignment mage to summon appropriate creatures, rather than generic goblins, orogs, gnolls, ogres, etc. A good-aligned wizard might summon celestials (spirit-warriors of Haelyn or Cuiraecen, for instance), elementals, treants, etc.

Speaking of which, since Clerics can Summon Monsters as easily as wizards, I allow that realm spell to be cast as a divine version by priest regents, needing an appropriate temple instead of a source. It works, too, if you allow the summoned creatures to be spiritual warriors or servants of the priest's deity (as in the above example).

A_dark
12-04-2003, 10:29 PM
I should have mentioned that my question is for 2nd edition and not 3rd, but thanks for the reply. It was helpful.

Benjamin
12-05-2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by A_dark@Dec 3 2003, 05:47 PM
Summoning does not work exactly like the Monster Summoning spells.... There is a fundamental difference. Creatures in the realm spell are transported from one place in the Prime Material to another and after the spell ends, they don't teleport back, but they stay to pillage the place...
Using this as your base assumption...

I'd say you can not dispel the summoning. Once the spell has been cast, the creatures are teleported in. The magic used was in teleporting, not in maintaining them here. Thus a dispel effect would be useless (unless the creatures were themselves magical or magic using).

Typically a Summoned creature is magical, and can be dispelled. However, if the realm spell is just moving creatures from one point to another, then they can't be dispelled.

destowe
12-05-2003, 09:55 PM
Clerics casting Summon Monster could get nasty very quickly. With their income they could more easily afford to cast this spell. Perhaps limit in to a temple (4) as it would need a more grand catherdral to cast.

After all Battle Bless (BRCS)/Bless Army (2nd) need a temple(3) and only augment an existing unit.

Then this spell would mostly be for use of good clerics. Evil ones get Legion of Dead much cheaper. (And more at higher levels. I could see clerics that are not 5th level needing Summon Monster.)

Osprey
12-10-2003, 12:59 AM
I think temple(4) is reasonable. Evil clerics, IMO, could summon spiritual servants/warriors of their god as easily as good clerics could. Why shouldn't a priest of Belinik be able to call upon the spirits of fallen Vos warriors (much like the einharier of Valhalla), or a priest regent of the Cold Rider call forth dark and twisted spirits from the Shadow World? Provides some variety from the Legions of Dead, and gives evil more faces than necromancy. I would even venture to say that many of the evil priests would consider necromancy abhorrent.