Prohibited Spells

[Kalien]

I was mucking around writing up a bit of stuff on arcane and divine magic for my (hopefully) future PBeM and thought of something I thought I'd toss out on the list in order to see what other people do. In a number of other PBeMs that I have played in, DMs have prohibited certain spells from the game - often such spells as Fly, Invisibility, and Raise Dead.

I was wondering what spells DMs out there prohibit from their games, whether table-top or PBeM. (Or spells that players have had prohibited from games they've played in).

So far the list I've just started includes:

Fly
Improved Invisibility
Raise Dead
True Resurrection

[CMonkey]

Fly I limited to 1 round per level.

I removed all resurrection/raise spells but wish/miracle could still do it.

Harm/Heal allow saves.

Grease is removed.

Other than that, everything stands.

CM.

[Azrai]

House rules concerning Spells are dangerous. Therefore I leave them how they are.

For Wizards the problem is easy to handle. Just don't give away spells you don't like (that's not a prohibition).

The 3.5 Edition will solve the broken "H*"-spells like Harm.

Invisibility and Fly are campaign-changing spells but should not be prohibited. They are essential.


As for the Resurrection spells they are not easy to handle in the Birthright setting. In my campaign there are just too few clerics who can cast such a spell.

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by Azrai@Jul 3 2003, 11:58 AM
Invisibility and Fly are campaign-changing spells but should not be prohibited. They are essential.

Those spells can save the whole group sometimes, naturally they CHANGE a campain, but I don't think, those spells unbalance it.

Fly only one round per level? I see such a change as a new 2nd level spell... :P

Resurrection? Well, there are not this much clerics, who can cast it. Cancelling those spells, but allowing a wish/ miracle is the same as allowing it only a bit later. This would only work with K.Gauck's idea of halving spellcasters in level. IMO both isn't the right way...

[CMonkey]

House rules concerning Spells are dangerous. Therefore I leave them how they are.


For Wizards the problem is easy to handle. Just don't give away spells you don't like (that's not a prohibition).
Until they research it independently.


The 3.5 Edition will solve the broken "H*"-spells like Harm.
Yes, it will. But it's not out yet.


Invisibility and Fly are campaign-changing spells but should not be prohibited. They are essential.
I don't see why. Invisibility has all the problems that are mentioned in the BRCS, Improved Invisibility even more. Alternatives are available - Ghostform from T&B, camoflaging spells and so forth. Fly is very helpful but not necessary for it to be 10 min / level IMO - it makes a vast number of mundane travel methods redundant. I limited it to 1 round per level so it was still useful in combat and still allowed Wizards to make magic carpets and so on if they want magical travel (which I think will look a lot cooler).

CM.

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by CMonkey@Jul 3 2003, 12:34 PM

For Wizards the problem is easy to handle. Just don't give away spells you don't like (that's not a prohibition).
Until they research it independently.

Yes, if they want to be three levels behind the group, because THEY have to do nothing apart from researching and NO group will wait on his wizard, if the maiden must be rescued... ;)


...it was still useful in combat and still allowed Wizards to make magic carpets and so on if they want magical travel (which I think will look a lot cooler).
If they live in Khinasi, it will look cool, otherwise (in Rjurik or Vosgaard for example) it can be self-destroying...

[CMonkey]

Yes, if they want to be three levels behind the group, because THEY have to do nothing apart from researching and NO group will wait on his wizard, if the maiden must be rescued...
And there's the thing though - BR has domain turns and character actions, research is significantly more likely here than in Greyhawk.


If they live in Khinasi, it will look cool, otherwise (in Rjurik or Vosgaard for example) it can be self-destroying...
That's what wings of flying would be for then - feathered for Rjurik and bat-like for the vos. :P

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by CMonkey@Jul 3 2003, 12:55 PM

Yes, if they want to be three levels behind the group, because THEY have to do nothing apart from researching and NO group will wait on his wizard, if the maiden must be rescued...
And there's the thing though - BR has domain turns and character actions, research is significantly more likely here than in Greyhawk.

O.K., if your wizard is actually a regent AND you use those turns... (Not every campaign does that) :D

[Raesene Andu]

Raise dead and resurrection are worthless for regents as once a regent dies he loses his bloodline and if raised for the dead returns as a commoner, as his bloodline has passed either to his heir, the land, or his slayer.

Fly and invisibility, while useful spells are not overpowering if the DM counters for such spells. You may as well ban all magic as most spells, if used in right way can be very powerful.

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Jul 3 2003, 01:51 PM
Raise dead and resurrection are worthless for regents as once a regent dies he loses his bloodline and if raised for the dead returns as a commoner, as his bloodline has passed either to his heir, the land, or his slayer.

That's right. As I remember, you must gain a "restore bloodline" after the resurrection or a wish/ miracle to be, what you was.

By the way, I can't remember (so remind me :D ): Is there a 3rd Edition version of "restore bloodline"?

[Raesene Andu]

Here is the section on resurrection from the BRCS. By the way this is my 600th post on this forum... yay me!!


Resurrection
Resurrection is a rare occurrence in Cerilia. Although it is
certainly possible to Raise Dead, most clerics are loath to do
so. Firstly, death is assumed to be the providence of the gods.
Only in the most unusual circumstances (and for the greater
good) would most clerics choose to interfere with the will of
the gods and rip a soul from its place of earned reward or punishment.
Secondly, when a scion dies, the vital energy of their bloodline
is released at the moment of their death and absorbed by
those nearby. A resurrected character's bloodline is gone forever.
They have no bloodline score and are not a scion. They
can certainly attempt to gain a new bloodline through investiture
or bloodtheft, but their original bloodline can never be
restored.
Lastly, when a regent dies, their domain passes to their heir
(or becomes uncontrolled if they have no designated heir).
The resurrected character is no longer a regent. Another now
claims the gold and regency of the domain that they once held.
History has shown that resurrecting a scion often leads to
tragic events as the resurrected party is tempted to engage in
bloodtheft to reclaim a birthright they feel is rightfully theirs.
In order to reclaim their domain, a resurrected regent would
need to somehow obtain a bloodline and re-invest their old
realm from its current regent (their heir).
The potential for internecine war is not taken lightly in Cerilia
(particularly in Anuire) and thus most churches (including
the church of Haelyn) have dire prohibitions against the resurrection
of regent characters. Likewise many churches forbid
the use of resurrection magic on philosophical grounds. Most
sects of Erik and Belinik, for example, perceive death as part
of the natural order, albeit from different perspectives.

[Ariadne]

So did I understand you right, that there is NO new version of this spell?
:unsure:

[Raesene Andu]

That is correct, no new version in the BRCS.

[Ariadne]

**Sigh....** :(

So there is only a wish/ miracle left for something like this...

[Raesene Andu]

Or you could make a new version of the spell yourself and post it here. B)

[ryancaveney]

g with this post I`m getting everything from the

boards packed so full of HTML commands that I can barely find, much less

read, the actual text. Save me, please!



Here`s an example of what I`m seeing on the mailing list, with angle

brackets changed to square ones and ampersands to dollar signs in the hope

they`ll come through on the web:



[!--QuoteBegin--Azrai+Jul 3 2003, 11:58 AM--][/span]QUOTE (Azrai @ Jul 3 2003, 11:58 AM)[!--QuoteEBegin--] Invisibility and Fly are campaign-changing spells but should not be prohibited. They are essential.[br] [!--QuoteEnd--] [span class=`postcolor`] [!--QuoteEEnd--][br] Those spells can save the whole group sometimes, naturally they CHANGE a campain, but I don$#39;t think, those spells unbalance it. [br][br]Fly only one round per level? I see such a change as a new 2nd level spell... [!--emo$:P--][img src=`http://www.birthright.net/forums/html/emoticons/tongue.gif` border=`0` style=`vertical-align:middle` alt=`tongue.gif`][!--endemo--] [br][br]Resurrection? Well, there are not this much clerics, who can cast it. Cancelling those spells, but allowing a wish/ miracle is the same as allowing it only a bit later. This would only work with K.Gauck$#39;s idea of halving spellcasters in level. IMO both isn$#39;t the right way...

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by ryancaveney@Jul 3 2003, 05:26 PM
g with this post I`m getting everything from the

boards packed so full of HTML commands that I can barely find, much less

read, the actual text. Save me, please!



Here`s an example of what I`m seeing on the mailing list, with angle

brackets changed to square ones and ampersands to dollar signs in the hope

they`ll come through on the web:



[!--QuoteBegin--Azrai+Jul 3 2003, 11:58 AM--][/span][b]QUOTE (Azrai @ Jul 3 2003, 11:58 AM)[!--QuoteEBegin--] Invisibility and Fly are campaign-changing spells but should not be prohibited. They are essential.[br] [!--QuoteEnd--] [span class=`postcolor`] [!--QuoteEEnd--] Those spells can save the whole group sometimes, naturally they CHANGE a campain, but I don$#39;t think, those spells unbalance it. [br][br]Fly only one round per level? I see such a change as a new 2nd level spell... [!--emo$:P--][img src=`http://www.birthright.net/forums/html/emoticons/tongue.gif` border=`0` style=`vertical-align:middle` alt=`tongue.gif`][!--endemo--] [br][br]Resurrection? Well, there are not this much clerics, who can cast it. Cancelling those spells, but allowing a wish/ miracle is the same as allowing it only a bit later. This would only work with K.Gauck$#39;s idea of halving spellcasters in level. IMO both isn$#39;t the right way...













WOW, O.K. all I can say, is: You was quoting my post...

[Arjan]

I know i know, i already tried to filter as much as possible.

I working on it as much as I can.



Met vriendelijke groet



Arjan Duijs







> -----Original Message-----

> From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion [mailto:BIRTHRIGHT-

> L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of Ryan B. Caveney

> Sent: donderdag 3 juli 2003 18:14

> To: BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM

> Subject: Re: Prohibited Spells [2#1765]

>

> Ack! Arjan, starting with this post I`m getting everything from the

> boards packed so full of HTML commands that I can barely find, much

less

> read, the actual text. Save me, please!

>

> Here`s an example of what I`m seeing on the mailing list, with angle

> brackets changed to square ones and ampersands to dollar signs in the

hope

> they`ll come through on the web:

>

> [!--QuoteBegin--Azrai+Jul 3 2003, 11:58 AM--][/span][b]QUOTE (Azrai @ Jul 3 2003, 11:58

> AM)[!--QuoteEBegin--] Invisibility and

Fly

> are campaign-changing spells but should not be prohibited. They are

> essential.[br] [!--QuoteEnd--] [span

class=`postcolor`]

> [!--QuoteEEnd--][br] Those spells can save the whole group sometimes,

> naturally they CHANGE a campain, but I don$#39;t think, those spells

> unbalance it. [br][br]Fly only one round per level? I see such a

change as

> a new 2nd level spell... [!--emo$:P--][img

> src=`http://www.birthright.net/forums/html/emoticons/tongue.gif`

> border=`0` style=`vertical-align:middle`

alt=`tongue.gif`][!--endemo--]

> [br][br]Resurrection? Well, there are not this much clerics, who can

cast

> it. Cancelling those spells, but allowing a wish/ miracle is the same

as

> allowing it only a bit later. This would only work with K.Gauck$#39;s

idea

> of halving spellcasters in level. IMO both isn$#39;t the right way...

>

>

************************************************** **********************

**

> **

>

> Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-

> l.html

>

>

[geeman]

-0400, you wrote:



>Ack! Arjan, starting with this post I`m getting everything from the

>boards packed so full of HTML commands that I can barely find, much less

>read, the actual text. Save me, please!



Arjan`ll fix it. He can fix anything. I understand he even makes a good

cup of tea....



Gary

[ryancaveney]

Arjan Duijs wrote:



> I know i know, i already tried to filter as much as possible.

> I working on it as much as I can.



Sorry, not meaning to pressure you -- just making sure you knew.

I`ll be happy whenever you fix it. =)





Ryan

[Kalien]

Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Jul 4 2003, 12:51 AM
Fly and invisibility, while useful spells are not overpowering if the DM counters for such spells. You may as well ban all magic as most spells, if used in right way can be very powerful.
Well, this problem of whether or not to prohibit certain spells has been resolved in a somewhat unorthodox manner ...

John M. and myself have decided to co-operate and run an Ars Magica campaign instead. And I have managed to pass on responsibility for wizards to him. :)

[Trithemius]

Well, this problem of whether or not to prohibit certain spells has

> been resolved in a somewhat unorthodox manner ...John M. and

> myself have decided to co-operate and run an Ars Magica

> campaign instead. And I have managed to pass on

> responsibility for wizards to him.



ph3ar!

Or something ;)



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

[Arjan]

Its in your own mail :)

UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message





> How can this be stopped?! :

>

> --

> John Machin

> (trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

> -----------------------------------

> "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

> Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

>

>

************************************************** **********************

**

> **

>

> Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-

> l.html

>

>

[Arjan]

Originally posted by Arjan@Jul 3 2003, 06:25 PM
I know i know, i already tried to filter as much as possible.

I working on it as much as I can.



Met vriendelijke groet



Arjan Duijs







> -----Original Message-----

> From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion [mailto:BIRTHRIGHT-

> L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of Ryan B. Caveney

> Sent: donderdag 3 juli 2003 18:14

> To: BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM

> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] Prohibited Spells [2#1765]

>

> Ack! Arjan, starting with this post I`m getting everything from the

> boards packed so full of HTML commands that I can barely find, much

less

> read, the actual text. Save me, please!

>

> Here`s an example of what I`m seeing on the mailing list, with angle

> brackets changed to square ones and ampersands to dollar signs in the

hope

> they`ll come through on the web:

>

> [!--QuoteBegin--Azrai+Jul 3 2003, 11:58 AM--][/span][b]QUOTE (Azrai @ Jul 3 2003, 11:58

> AM)[!--QuoteEBegin--] Invisibility and

Fly

> are campaign-changing spells but should not be prohibited. They are

> essential.[br] [!--QuoteEnd--] [span

class=`postcolor`]

> [!--QuoteEEnd--] Those spells can save the whole group sometimes,

> naturally they CHANGE a campain, but I don$#39;t think, those spells

> unbalance it. [br][br]Fly only one round per level? I see such a

change as

> a new 2nd level spell... [!--emo$:P--][img

> src=`http://www.birthright.net/forums/html/emoticons/tongue.gif`

> border=`0` style=`vertical-align:middle`

alt=`tongue.gif`][!--endemo--]

> [br][br]Resurrection? Well, there are not this much clerics, who can

cast

> it. Cancelling those spells, but allowing a wish/ miracle is the same

as

> allowing it only a bit later. This would only work with K.Gauck$#39;s

idea

> of halving spellcasters in level. IMO both isn$#39;t the right way...

>

>

************************************************** **********************

**

> **

>

> Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-<br />
> l.html

>

>













test removing html tags

arjan

[Trithemius]

Its in your own mail :)

> UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message



It shouldn`t be :



I was just including it to show what I was seeing ;)



I use plain-text almost religiously :D



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

[swashbuck]

given that spellcasters (wielders of true magic) are very rare, those spells are rare also.

as for resurrection i can say, let the cleric additionally pay 2 regency points for each raised or resurrected level. that way only blooded clerics can raise the dead and it will cost them dearly in regency. so the number of people who can do this are countable on one hand in al cerilia.

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by geeman@Jul 3 2003, 06:47 PM
-0400, you wrote:



>Ack&#33; Arjan, starting with this post I`m getting everything from the

>boards packed so full of HTML commands that I can barely find, much less

>read, the actual text. Save me, please&#33;



Arjan`ll fix it. He can fix anything. I understand he even makes a good

cup of tea....



Gary




I&#39;m shure, he can... :D

[Arjan]

Originally posted by geeman@Jul 3 2003, 06:47 PM

Arjan`ll fix it. He can fix anything. I understand he even makes a good

cup of tea....



Gary




I only know how to bake browser cookies :)

[kgauck]

ge -----

From: "John Machin" <trithemius@PARADISE.NET.NZ>

Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 7:55 AM





> I use plain-text almost religiously :D



And so deserve 4 points of piety and a plaque, for at this instance I am

most enamored of plain text. Boeruine`s personal scribe, notwithstanding.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

[Trithemius]

> And so deserve 4 points of piety and a plaque, for at this

> instance I am most enamored of plain text. Boeruine`s

> personal scribe, notwithstanding.



Praise be!



*spontaneously blesses Kenneth*



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.