View Full Version : PBeM and Birthright Links

12-26-2001, 01:37 PM
I made a small list of Birtright PBeM's and general links.

Could people send me more if they have any so I can continue to expand this. I will set up a web page or give it over to Birtright.net. I will also, continue to check up on these to see if they are active.

If the DM's or Creators want to give a little line or two about thier game it would probably help alot. Even to know if it is still open for players.

Expect an Update very soon.



Crown of Glory II-Rites of Darkness

Dangerous Waters

Heirs of the Fallen Empire II
http://www.geocities.com/fearless_leader10...mpire/pbem.html (http://www.geocities.com/fearless_leader101/FallenEmpire/pbem.html)

In the Shadows of Deismaar

Legacy of Ruin

The Crown and the Blood

The Plains of Blood

Warlords of Winter

Non Birthright PBeM's
World of Enothril

Twilight Birthright

Blood of Minder

General Birthright Pages
Birthright 3E

Official Birthright Page


Raesene Andu
12-27-2001, 06:04 AM
My pbem game (at http://users.chariot.net.au/~hoss/pbem1/) is still accepting players, there are around 8-10 places still available. I am currently working on resolving turn 1, with turns about once every two weeks.

12-28-2001, 05:51 AM
This is a 3E game using Travis Doom's latest converision guide. It is run on a month - month (action - action) basis as oppossed to the traditional 3 month domain turn.

It is rather full, but new players are welcome. (There are still some good postions left).

It uses Excel Spreadsheets to track the domain however, so access to this program makes things much easier.

12-28-2001, 11:34 PM
This pbem is based on the conversion of Travis Doom. It is run in Anuire in the year 552 MR, and has a lot of slots (realms) available, since it has been published only a week before. The postings are going to be (hopefully) once per week. It is run in an domain action basis (one month basis), in order to allow the players greater "maneuverability" in the game.

DM Gryffon
02-09-2002, 03:15 AM
Can you please list Shadows of the Blood, a new game that covers all of Cerilia, please.


It plans to start around March 1 2002 and is still taking applications for available regencies.


02-20-2002, 10:32 PM
Updating the URL's I have for Birthright.

Each PBeM has multiple links to different player realms, also thier is alot of individual Birthright pages out thier. Do you want a list of those?

Send me the links and I will add them.

Here is what I have so far....I can edit this if something is wrong. ;)

Crown of Glory II-Rites of Darkness

Heirs of the Fallen Empire II
http://www.geocities.com/fearless_leader10...mpire/pbem.html (http://www.geocities.com/fearless_leader101/FallenEmpire/pbem.html)

In the Shadows of Deismaar
(itsod is temporary down due to moving) -> arjan

Legacy of Ruin

Warlords of Winter

Shadow of the Blood

The Crown and the Blood (I think joined SotB)

The Plains of Blood (I think joined SotB)

Adventure in the Sothern Coast (I think this is still going on?, not a lot of action)


Dangerous Waters (Never Started)

World of Enothril

Five Winds-L5R Birthright

Twilight Birthright (Have not seen any action)

Blood of Minder (Have not seen any action)

Birthright 3E

Official Birthright Page


02-24-2002, 08:04 PM
Here is my links page

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/switala/birthr...ht/brlinks.html (http://www.angelfire.com/fl/switala/birthright/brlinks.html)


I will be watching these sites and giving a sort of feed back, maybe??? I don't want to offend anyone. But I will move dead end links and closed games to a seperate area.

Write me if you want your page added.

The Wind Mage
03-20-2002, 02:59 PM
The temporary Khinasi site for the Shadow of the Blood PBeM is


It is currently accepting new players.

Chaos Lord Arioch
03-22-2002, 09:00 PM
Just beginning, DM's are still fleshing out the rules.

2nd Ed rules, Brechtur campaign called;
Lords of the Great Bay.


Don't beat me, I'm just the messenger.;)

Eric Saxon
03-23-2002, 11:51 PM
Well I have tried to play the SotB game but the GM has made some interesting choices:

1. Darien Avan was kidnapped by pirates on the Khinasi Sea, the reason for him being there was not given.

2. Darien Avan looted Tahegas, even though he is Avan's ally and vassal.

3. Darien Avan is going to be assassinated by the pirates if he doesn't pay 40GB, if he does then Avan will live, MAYBE?

The reason for all these things is that Aeric Berouine lost a war in Five Peaks, so to even things out the DM decided to punish the Avan player. I recommend that some of the players consider going into this game.

03-24-2002, 12:09 AM
That sounds ... uh ... interesting. Why not simply let one of them gain the upper hand?

Vordhuine Alam
03-24-2002, 02:56 AM
The reason for the situation in Avanil in the Shadow of the Blood game was because this was already part of the history of the Plains of Blood, the Khinasi PBeM which had been running independently before it was incorporated into the Shadow of the Blood.

This is detailed below.

Raesene Andu
Khinasi Administrator
(1/22/02 9:24:48 am)
Re: DMing Anuire
One question for those running Anuire. I recently had a plot for the Khinasi section (before it became part of this Cerilia wide campaign) of Darien Avan travelling to Ariya for a diplomatic meeting with the Prince-Paladin, only he has now been kidnapped along the way by pirates. This was to lead into an adventure action for various regents, but if you have a player for Avanil, he can escape on his own before next season.

Secondly as the character and the name of the Avanil posts has only changed recently I can only surmise that you only took over Avanil recently. The information about Darien Avan's behaviour and disappearance has been up in the Anuire and Khinasi history pages since the game began so you should have been aware of this before taking over the domain which was listed as under consideration.

03-24-2002, 03:20 AM
For those who want to learn what really happened, read the forums of the game.


03-24-2002, 04:11 PM
The guy who left SotB considered it useful to sware at his DM in the IC forums and to publish information that was meant to be kept secret between the DM and the Avanil player.I just hope the damage he caused is not so big...And he should have learned by now that the DM's decisions are only to provide fun and challenges for the PCs.If some guys can't cope with that then that's too bad , but please don't ruin our game.We want to play and not sit and hear you quarelling with the DM.

Eric Saxon
03-24-2002, 07:30 PM
Well, well, well.

Raesene Andu, if you knew what you were talking about, it would be impressive. Unfortunately, the GM said nothing of the sort, he said you can't get your regent out, except if you pay 40GB to the pirates.

To further make things worse I don't know if the pirates will honor their agreement, I guess it depends on the GM and how generous he is feeling.

As far as the Khinasi region, I could care less if Ian Hoskins made some choices, this doesn't mean that Darien Avan would make an idiotic choice to go on a cruise with no guards and no fleet. Avanil has a fleet of roughly 40 ships, 15 or so which are galleons, it would be stupid to go and get caught if you have a huge backup fleet. Second, it would be stupid to go sailing anywhere if you are the Prince without a 5 military unit escort, after all, half of the assassins in the Empire work for Berouine.

So, while this may be a good story, if the GM doesn't know that is what it is meant to be, because some other assnine GM failed to inform him, then he won't work with the player or let him have any options. The only thing he let me know was that the Prince of Avanil went on a stupid cruise, instead of sending a diplomat and he could not come up with a reason as to why this would be the logical thing to do for the Prince of Avanil or even give me a reason as to why he went to Khinasi. The GM did not even know which country Darien Avan went to or what the purpose of the meeting was.

Are you begining to see why I was so frustrated? Oh and if you don't believe me, email me and I will forward his messages to me. aap20687@csun.edu

As for the goblin khan, aren't you the one who called everyone and their mother, a racist because we told you to leave, since we don't like goblins.

03-24-2002, 08:13 PM
After reading through most of that, it does sound rather frustrating and heavy-handed.

The obvious solution would seem to let the player make the choice, then inform the DM of the other region, rather than letting a DM from another region simply overrule someone who is a player in another.

It must be very frustrating indeed that your character is set to act in a certain way, and not even get to know why he acts in such a way. At the very minimum, the DM could have said it was due to some strange magical effect... (the standard weak excuse)

Just seems to me to be in very clear violation of one of the "golden rules of good DMing" here.

03-24-2002, 08:54 PM
First of all i never called YOU a racist in real life!! For Christe's shake , that was against the delegate of Avanil from a goblin that was called Demon spawn!!I'm not a demon spawn in real life either you know:)

Now to Mark.I don't know what the DMs had in mind , especially after the dissapearnce of Raesene Andu.(really what's going on with Raesene Andu ? I hope this is not a serious personal problem!I really hope that he is OK...)

First of all , is it so weird for Avanil to go on a cruise and attacked by pirates or i don't know by anyone else ? I mean wherever Darien Avan goes , he must be accompanied by a 1000 soldiers even in his personal life ? If Boeruine wants to kill Avanil to get the iron throne , well that's an idea of how you see the game.There are many views on the Avan-Boeruine conflict.

Of course the pirates is not somehting predictable by the PC.You could call an Anuire wide campaign to help your prince and i'm sure that even Boeruine would help.That's one of the many choices to handle such a challenging situation.And you threw it away!

03-24-2002, 09:05 PM
Avan is probably quite paranoid about his personal security - even in the adventure Sword and Crown, he travelled with an entourage of a unit of knights - as did Boeruine, as I recall. Not just a regular ol' bodyguard, but an army. I'd imagine he'd be able to protect himself from pirates as well - as I recall, Avanil has one of the most powerful, if not THE most powerful fleets in all of Cerilia. There is also the question of what the heck Avan would have to gain by going to Ariya.

The bottom line, though, is that it just sounds like a piece of bad DM communication/planning, and then just using the "I am the DM, shut up and put up or get out" schtick instead of actually justifying what was going on - because there really is no justification. Sure, being a DM is a lot of work - but the purpose of it is to make it a good time for everyone involved. This DM seems to have ignored a highly legitimate player concern in favor of just laying the law down.

03-24-2002, 09:35 PM
Overall it was largely a communication breakdown. DM Darkon greatly respects Raesene Andu (Ian Hoskins) as do we all. Ian is one of the key figures in carrying on the legacy of Birthright. Deferring to his plot line for Avan is not such an outlandish descision. If Raesene didn't pass along info on the reason for the "cruise" of Avanil DM Darkon should have simply asked the Avanese player to hang tight. Reasene stated that Avanil would likely escape "the next season". I mean after all its only turn two. No need to panic.

-Avan may not have wished to travel with his army for many reasons. The cheif one being an attempt at secrecy. One doesn't usually hide an armada of 20+ ships, but a lone vessel rarely draws much attention.

-the 40GB ransom is a bit much to say the least. 20-25 would have been about the max.

-complaints about the unsurity of Avan's safety should the ransom be paid. Is this any different then a normal kindapping situation? Even if the ransom is paid the victim is still at the mercy of the offenders.

-I happen to agree with Darkon on the unrealisitc demands and harsh treatment of the Chamberlain by Avan's delegate in the Senate. Avan was a contender for the throne and would have tried his best to appease/work with the Chamberlain, not accost his as a petty servant who dared defy the Prince. But again I think this was due to a bit of a mis communication. Avan seemed to treat the Senate under some preconceived ideas (apparently a past campaign):
* the Senate existed since the fall of the empire --> the DM presented it as a newly created faction in an effort to promote peace and unity.
* the Senate superceded the Chamberlain's juristiction while in the halls
* the Chamberlain had no power to control who attended or was expelled from the Senate meetings (even though he initiated the Senate meeting and sent the invites...)

-while it may be to late and your reaction (eric - Avanil) pretty much shot all hope I would have hoped the chaos could be brought to order and the game could have continued. -
-Overall I think it was a mistake on the part of DM Darkon to even consider offering the potisions of Avanil, Boeruine, or Ghoere to PCs. Unless you as a DM are familiar with the requesting player's track record and their skill as roleplayers the potential abuse of power and unbalancing effect is to great to allow.

03-24-2002, 11:02 PM
The problem with all those assumptions is that they are just that - the player was not given any reason why his *character* would act that way, just told what he did, and that it even went wrong. The first part is bad enough - telling a player what his character does - the second is even worse - making what the character does go wrong, when the player has no choice in the matter. The DM might as well go, "you cut your hand off. Muhaha. I am the DM, and you can't object to it."

As for assumptions, it seems to me that the whole Avan Kidnapped plot was something Hoskins had planned, but never fulfilled on, when he learned there was an Avanese player - so the Anuirean DM might as well have ignored the event. In any case, no good explanation was ever offered for Avan going to Ariya to negotiate - it seems to me that Avan wouldn't stand to gain much by doing so - Ariya could probably contribute nothing to his Anuirean cause - in fact, Ariya would likely oppose any attempts at reunifying Anuire, since that would once again threaten Khinasi independence...

One can, of course, question the reasoning behind giving a player control of a domain like Avanil at all - it depends on what you intend to do with the PBeM, I suppose. If the purpose is to give each player a relatively fair and balanced shot at the throne, or at least, "greatness," then doling out domains on that scale will make some players better off than others. If, on the other hand, the purpose is to have a fun game, I'd make any domain fair game - even the Gorgon's. The DM would in that case simply be a referee, not a storyteller - the story would be told in the interaction between the domains instead. Of course, whoever should play the Gorgon should be *worthy* of the role - twisted and devious beyond salvation. In general, though, I'd agree that such domains should be beyond the control of players, or the play will simply center around them (not that it wouldn't anyway - I suppose PBeMs are different in this regard than table play) - it's like letting a couple of players play 10th-level character in a predominantly 5th-level group.

Whatever the case, and whoever the DM, it sounds like very poor work in terms of both communication and storytelling, and then it gets compounded by the "I am the DM" schtick as well. No wonder this particular player got frustrated quickly.

40 GB is actually a quite reasonable ransom when you consider the domain of Avanil - it is approximately what Avan raises in taxes alone each season; he probably raises far more than that through other means, and the Avanese treasury holds a fair sum already - 40 GB would hurt, but it wouldn't be anywhere near a disaster.

As for the senate and that, I see that strictly as an addition for the sake of communication in a PBeM game, nothing else. However the background for it is handled, I find calling for the removal of a goblin representative in proper character, but not the fight with the chamberlain.

It seems to me to be a case where the DM's mistakes led to player mistakes - frustration would seem the likely cause of the outburst in the senate, more than anything else; the DM himself even pointed this out.

At a minimum, the DM should have made up a reason for Avan going to Ariya, then presented this reason to Hoskins in the same manner - "Avan went to Ariya to negotiate taking the prince of Ariya as a vassal in return for some Avanese mercenaries helping to conquer Aftane." Then he would have to write that into his campaign in a similar manner.

The co-DMing model adopted here seems less than optimal, to say the least. While I can see the excitement in making the entire continent playable, it does require a very high degree of cooperation between DMs - when they borrow each other's characters, they should ask, not inform. In this case, the Khinasi campaign was the primogen, so Hoskins should at minimum, as a matter of courtesy, given the entire story, so that the other DM might better play with it. If not, it's simply rude, and the other DM could certainly return the favor - "the regents of Suirene, Ariya and Khourane have a secret meeting in Elinie, where they are killed - now play by that, it's part of an adventure I have for one of my players." In short - it also seems a bit unnecessary - the Khinasi region has plenty of characters of its own that can be used - why not use them, instead of hauling characters from halfway around the continent - in particular, characters central to another part of the continent?

Eric Saxon
03-25-2002, 12:51 AM
You guys seem to understand my frustration, so I will give you some icing to top the cake. When I found out Tahegas was one of my vassals and not an ally, I was a bit surprised that I did not receive anything from Harald Khorien, I asked why this was, since I was receiving tribut from all my other vassals. His response was that Darien Avan looted the Tahegan coffers to build a bigger army and that his vassal was now mad and would not send any tribute.

This seemed illogical to me, if Darien Avan had the access to the coffers of his vassals, then they shouldn't be able to do anything about him doing so again, so tribute or not, DAvan doesn't have to ask their permission.

If he doesn't have the power to do so, then there should be no rift between him and his vassal, because he never did it.

As for the question of the goblin, I would have actually allied myself with Thurazor, since he was pissing on Berouine in the Senate and telling him that he was a fool. I would have had no problem with the goblins, however the player foolishly accused AB and DA of possibly assassinating his messenger, email problem. The goblin should have accussed Berouine and said 'but I am sure that the honorable Avans would have never done so', instead he accussed both of us. Stupid? Yes, he should have played us of against one another, instead antagonizing both of us, to give us common cause against his kingdom.

After the accusation, I demanded that the 'filthy beast' be removed, the Thurazor delegate further dug a hole for himself, he called Avan a racist and he added Talinie, Coreanys and Ghoere? into the list.

And then he posts to the IC board surprised that I ordered my troops to shoot him on sight, if he came into the provinces of Avanil.

The Chamberlain (DM) instead of censuring him at the first accussation of assassination, let it go, so I made issue of it, by asking the Senate to remove the goblin, that is when the Chamberlain said, you can't vote and I replied, this is the Imperial Senate, I can and will vote, then I also mentioned that I did not want Orogs, Trolls or Gnolls to be invited into the Imperial Capital.

Made sense to me, especially since the only humanoid allowed in the Senate was being so rude and crass.

Vordhuine Alam
03-25-2002, 02:47 AM
I am not Ian Hoskins/Raesene Andu. I took over the Khinasi region after he disappeared. and likewise hope that he is well. Ian has always responded very helpfully to my questions in this forum before and I have no idea what happened to him. I merely quoted his words in the DM forum to explain why this plot line occured.

The communication between the Anuirean and Khinasi regions broke down because Ian disappeared. As much as we would like to know what he intended we cannot know unless we hear from him again. Most likely he initially had little plans when it began save in the context of providing entertainment in the Khinasi region, which alone was running at that time. He did however leave Avan's fate entirely in the hands of the Anuire DM, as was appropriate and as I have.

To the best of my knowledge there was no Avanil player whenever the Anuirean section of the game began. Avanil appeared to be run as an NPC realm for the first turn and these events occured in the history before even that and before the Anuirean campaign began. Prince Avan's disappearance was even introduced in the Senate by the delagte of Avanil, whom I can only presume was the DM, during the first turn. I thus have two questions for you. When did you join the game and when did you learn of the Avanese situation? If you join after a game starts you have to accept a realm in the condition that it is in. Even if you join at the start you must accept the history of the campaign. This is my main bone of contention with you. If you knew of these events before formally taking over Avanil I fail to see what your main complaint is. If you did not I apologise.

Remember also in the application page it said that if you wanted to play the powerful realms listed as under consideration you had to agree to play a realm partially or completely as the DM wished for at least 3 turns. This is only turn 2.

What angers me personally is that you publically accused me of overruling Darkon and causing problems for your character without ever contacting me. As I have already said I gave Darkon a suggestion for Avan (an auction) when I was aware of no Avanil player but after he told me he would be eventually rescued I have taken no further action with regard to him.

There have been communication problems. With DM Byron/Malla Urden having his computer crash and Ian disappearing, without leaving access to his previous work, and John/Dragonov having to leave due to real-life constraints of course things have not been perfect lately. There is now a full complement of DMs and proper communication between them.

If you feel that you have been slighted then I am truly sorry. If you had contacted me regarding Khinasi before "going public" I would have tried to help alleviate your concerns or intercede on your behalf but having just spent a long time creating a new site to resurrect the Khinasi section following Ian's disappearance please understand my considerable annoyance at your post which was designed to completely destroy this game.

This argument has been ugly and of a type that I have never seen on this forum before and hope to never have to see again. Everyone should just put it behind them. If it will help to clear the air I apologise for any offence that I have given you.

I also suggest that someone makes a new thread here listing all the PBeM links so that anyone wanting to list another one concisely in the future doesn't have to do it after all this.

03-25-2002, 02:56 AM
That would seem as good a clarification as any, and a very reasonable one, to boot.

03-25-2002, 04:08 AM
I am glad to see that someone understands what a starting state of a realm really means.
I do not know about you, but when I take on a realm, especially when it is characterised UNDER CONSIDERATION, I agree to the events that have happened and do not continuously nag about it. That is the reason why it is considered undder consideration after all.
For the history, Avan's disapearance happened before the player took over the realm. It was a part of teh history.
YES the player knew the current state of affairs, when he agreed to play the realm.
Just a peace of personal advice. Next time when you say "I agree" mean it.

03-25-2002, 08:18 AM
Okay, to prevent this thread from degenerating further, I've deleted your last post Eric since it went way out of line and I didn't want this thread to explode into outrage. I'm asking all of you to please cool down, and keep to the topic at head. Or even better - start a new thread and just forget this one ever existed.