Newbie with questions.

[ssheftall]

Hello all!

I'm new to Birthright (actually right now all I have in terms of info are this sight and the 3E playtest version - a copy of the 2E version is on the way.) Anyway, my question, "How is everyone running there campaigns?"

My immediate thought would be to have each of the players create a regent (what character level?) and then create a "generic" character for use by everyone to function as an adventurer for whoevers regent is in the spotlight. Good idea? Other ways to do it and have all involved as regents? I'm interested in all thoughts!

Thanks for your time.

-S.

[Shade]

When I first started out, I used the same approach - everyone had a regent character, and then everyone had a "secondary" character that was part of an adventuring group. The two characters were not necessarily related in any way.

The regent group still did go on adventures, it just wasn't quite as common as the other group. The secondary group ended up working primarily for one of the PC regents.

Eventually that group was abandoned because 2 of the PCs got lost in the Shadow World, and I was getting tired of running adventures with different groups of characters. Now I am just using the regent group.

Birthright campaigns tend to have a lot of variety. Some people run adventure-only, others domain-only, and others a mix of both. Some allow mixed race parties and others don't. Some have all the regents running one realm, others have one PC regent and the rest of the PCs as lieutenants, and others have each PC running their own domain (which is what I prefer).

You can really go any way you and your group want. If it sounds fun then do it :)

[ssheftall]

Thanks Shade!

I'm just trying to get a handle on a good way to manage the game without it either getting out of control, i.e. too big or having too much "happenstance" in getting the players to adventure together. As an example, if you run a game where all of the players are regents controlling their own realms, just why would these kings, queens, princes, etc., go adventuring together? All the time? My only answer was they wouldn't. That's why the generic characters that could be plugged in as retainers as needed. But, I'm sure there are other answers to this question and I'd love to hear them!

-S.

[Cobos]

On 25 Apr 2003 21:05 CEST you wrote:

> ssheftall wrote:
> Hello all!
>
> I`m new to Birthright (actually right now all I have in terms of info are this sight and the 3E playtest version - a copy of the 2E version is on the way.) Anyway, my question, "How is everyone running there campaigns?"
>
> My immediate thought would be to have each of the players create a regent (what character level?) and then create a "generic" character for use by everyone to function as an adventurer for whoevers regent is in the spotlight. Good idea? Other ways to do it and have all involved as regents? I`m interested in all thoughts!
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> -S.
>

The way I prefeer is the united regents system...i.e. where the party has a class-mix that means they sort of controll all the holdings within a single domain. An example would be a 1-2 fighter regents controlling law and provinces while there is a cleric, wizard or rogue controlling the remaining holdings.
My first campaign started with one realm falling apart and the players where the heirs to the holdings and provinces within the realm, that way the players represented a sort of ruling council and any threat to any one of them meant they responded together often through adventuring....
Though that campaign died in part because I had serious problems finding good adventures for them....

So the new and improved campaing V2 :) I`ve gone for mostly the same solution but this time all the players start out as sons and daughters of some of the minor nobles in the realm (i.e. provincial counts, the ones actually administrating/running the provinces), and at first lvl. After I ran each player through a solo-adventure that got their attention from the realm Duchess (Duchess Laela Flaertas of Tuornen in my case), they were all hired as sort of "troubleshooters/adventures/agents etc...." And that meant I could send them on structered missions the first 2 lvls that also meant they got to meet the important NPCs of the realm firsthand, as well as see the troublespots of the realms...
And slowly I`m turning them onto domain lvl play through the backdoor :) It helps that one of the players a minor noble fighter started out as a unit commander. He is the commander of one of the duchess` pikemen units. That way I can also use a military angle.....

Anyway I`m rambling, if you want to know more please send me an email.

Cobos

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[Crazy Wolf]

Well, as everyone will tell you it is up to you. One thing to keep in mind is does your gaming group enjoy twists and turns and backstabbing or are they more of a kill the baddies get the gold group? It is more difficult to run regents but it can be much more fulfilling if you group cares for that. (To me nothing is more disheartening then working up some interesting possibilities just to see a glazed look on my players faces, not to mention having everyone unable to remember why we are playing BR to begin with.) The world itself is very rich and a non-regent campaign can be the best for new characters to give everyone a heads up about the world and slowly work into a more political game. Just my two cents.
Ben

[Peter Lubke]

On Sat, 2003-04-26 at 05:00, ssheftall wrote:
This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
You can view the entire thread at:

http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1607

ssheftall wrote:
Hello all!

I`m new to Birthright (actually right now all I have in terms of info
are this sight and the 3E playtest version - a copy of the 2E version
is on the way.) Anyway, my question, "How is everyone running there
campaigns?"

My immediate thought would be to have each of the players create a regent
(what character level?) and then create a "generic" character for use
by everyone to function as an adventurer for whoevers regent is in the
spotlight. Good idea? Other ways to do it and have all involved as
regents? I`m interested in all thoughts!

Thanks for your time.

-S.

There are many different "styles" of BR. e.g.
(i) Domain-only play, (no adventuring)
(ii) Adventure only play
(iii) Hybrid Domain/Adventure

I use a hybrid. It`s a very low-level BR world.

Each player creates a role playing character who acts as an agent for a
domain level regent. Players are not required to reveal truthfully who
their domain level regent is to the other players. One player chose to
be a double-agent, actually working for one regent while appearing to
work for another. Regents rarely adventure and have few levels,
typically 1-3, unless they are Wizard source regents who spend most of
their time adventuring (such a player has two adventuring characters - a
wizard and her bodyguard/lover in this case). Adventuring characters are
around 4th or 5th level, or are dual-classed at 3/3 (not a fan of 3e at
all).

I do not award experience points to player characters for any reason
whatsoever - the levels are the players starting levels, they cannot
advance on their own actions alone. They start as heroes, and are
expected to act appropriately - should the player characters exceed
expectations (or get bored) I`ll change it to something else.

The players, through their regent characters, decide much of the plot
lines (but not the consequences - that`s my job). The maneuvering and
politics occurs at the local political level - there`s no grand plan to
unite Cerilia, or to defeat the Gorgon.

The current adventure plot revolves around an action taken by a priest
regent to curry favor with the local real regent to endorse his faith as
the state faith officially. At the domain level of play, the action was
to send a gift (an enchanted golden chalice) to the realm regent. The
chalice was stolen by pirates. (BTW This is set in Berhagen in Brechtur)
The agents of almost everyone have a vested interest in getting the
chalice back, and for those who wouldn`t normally care - there is a
reward too.

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[zukie51262]

I can understand your dilemma I kind of overwhelmed when Birthright first came out but I was stubborn and kept with it.

The best suggestion I have is start out with an NPC Regent that you run as your personal Character. Run him or her through the domain turns taking your actions collecting Regency points and taxes/moneys and of course paying maintance costs. Try to cover everything with this character and then when you get a good feel for what is going on then your can have your NPC declare one of your PC as an air to the throne or regency. (This of course can be a whole adventure by itself).

After this is going well then work up the other PC into regents, and before you know it you will be a pro.

It’s Good to be Kind, but better to be Dungeon Master

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "ssheftall" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 2:00 PM


> My immediate thought would be to have each of the players
> create a regent (what character level?) and then create a "generic"
> character for use by everyone to function as an adventurer for
> whoevers regent is in the spotlight.

I definitely go this way. Too often regents are too involved in their own
business to adventure together. Having spare characters for players allows
everyone to play even when one or more regents is busy with domain actions.
Rather than thinking in terms of two groups, I think in terms of one group
with alternates.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[ConjurerDragon]

ssheftall wrote:

>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1607
>ssheftall wrote:
> Hello all!
>I`m new to Birthright (actually right now all I have in terms of info are this sight and the 3E playtest version - a copy of the 2E version is on the way.) Anyway, my question, "How is everyone running there campaigns?"
>My immediate thought would be to have each of the players create a regent (what character level?) and then create a "generic" character for use by everyone to function as an adventurer for whoevers regent is in the spotlight. Good idea? Other ways to do it and have all involved as regents? I`m interested in all thoughts!
>Thanks for your time.
>-S.
>
The major problem with that is that the regents must be friends.
No regent would take an adventurer with him on an adventurer if you e.g.
search for the major artifact of overcoming your enemies, if in the
party is a character played by the same player who plays your enemy ;-)
bye
Michael Romes

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[geeman]

At 09:00 PM 4/25/2003 +0200, ssheftall wrote:

>My immediate thought would be to have each of the players create a regent
>(what character level?) and then create a "generic" character for use
>by everyone to function as an adventurer for whoevers regent is in the
>spotlight. Good idea? Other ways to do it and have all involved as regents?

Sounds like an excellent idea to me. You might want to consider the exact
role of the "adventurer" PC in relation to the "regent" PC. A couple of
things that might make sense to think about:

1. Should the character classes differ between these two PCs? Having both
a fighter regent and a fighter adventurer might promote some consistency in
the player`s activities during sessions, but it could also limit the amount
of participation that the player has in sessions.

2. Similarly, what will be the relationship between the players regent and
adventurer PCs? Having the adventurer being the "right hand" (or LT) of
the regent PC might again promote consistency in the player`s activities,
but could also limit the involvement of the player in the session. If
players control a PC regent and an "adventuring" PC who works for one of
the PC regents of another player that could also promote more interaction
between players.

It depends largely on the style of play you prefer and that of your
players, but it sounds like there are a lot of cool role-playing
possibilities to arranging sessions the way you`re suggesting. In the past
I`ve had players take on the role of just about any character they came
into contact with as part of their "role" as regent. That is, if they
delegate an action to a character that is part of their realm`s staff then
they have to play out that character`s activities. That certainly keeps
players involved in the action, and doesn`t let them "get away" with
anything when it comes to having access to resources at the domain level,
which can be quite extensive, but it does require a lot of flexibility on
the part of the players and a whole stack of character record
sheets. Character information is somewhat more complex in 3e than in 2e in
my experience because one has to spend skill points, consider
multi-classing options, choose feats, etc. where in 2e characters were
simpler, so it`s not as easy to have a list of such NPCs/PCs available
making that style of play require a lot more of a time investment. At the
moment I`m running a pretty exclusively adventure level campaign, but
limiting players to one regent and one adventurer might be more manageable.

Within that context you might also want to consider how you`re going to
divvy up XP awards to the two PCs. CR awards for encounters are still
pretty straight forward, but if you give bonus points for story, good play,
accomplishing particular goals, etc. then those might go to the regent or
be split with him.

Gary

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[irdeggman]

Well, I did a couple of didferent things.

One was to have 2 sets of realms. Both separated so that they wouldn't be interacting. That way everyplayer could have a regent inone of the two realms. In the other realm they were forced to have a non-regent. The time lines were parallel so there was some catching up when an adventure took a long time (real timewise).

Another option was to have the player's adventurers be their regent's lieutenants. The regent characters would only go on adventures when they of the epic kind, say seraching for the Sword of Roele, which is by the way the absolute worst Birthright adventure ever written.

The latter one is definitely the least time consuming for a DM and the one I preferred.

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "irdeggman" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2003 6:14 PM


> Another option was to have the player`s adventurers be their
> regent`s lieutenants. The regent characters would only go on
> adventures when they of the epic kind, say seraching for the
> Sword of Roele, which is by the way the absolute worst
> Birthright adventure ever written.

1) PC`s wouldn`t be lieutenants per say, since they are free willed, being
controlled by players. Certainly non-ruler PC`s could be members of the
court (or courts), and they can certainly solve problems for rulers.
However, they are under none of the obligations we can expect of NPC
lieutenants, nor should rulers be forced to count another player`s PC
against his lieutenant (or cohort) limits.

2) By adventures you mean something more like the traditional dungeon crawl.
Most adventuring I have seen described in BR isn`t like that and fits into
much more ruler-friendly. I typically see regents adventure once per
season, but this might be a diplomatic mission, solving the mystery of
espionage in his capital, or commanding his troops in a battle. Oviously,
rulers don`t adventure for a treasure chest full of gold.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Birthright-L]

As long as the "hostile agent" is not knownin advance, it is perfectly
acceptible for him tobe on the team a regent sends out - traitors are among
us!

In a Traveller campaign I was playing in the Trillion Credit Squadron
setting, we had a similar interaction between states and adventurers. Each
player had a nation (a planet in this case), and that player`s character was
loyal to that planet. The mission was to spy on the military thechnology of
oneof theseplanets - but the players were not told which one. Or rather,
only one player was told which planet the mission was on - the player
playing that planet. Thus, one member of the team had a strng incentive to
cause the mission to fail. If his planet had an ally among the other
worlds/players, he could ask that player for help - but in doing that, he
would reveal himself, and thus make himself vulnerable.

This exact setup would be hard to use in BR, but thibking along these lines
mightbe perfectly acceptible.

/Carl

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[kgauck]

Traitors occur in NPC`s because 1) the ruler treats a person in such a way
as to shift his loyalty, 2) the ruler overlooks hints that the person is not
reliable, or 3) the DM decides to use this NPC for a storyline. PC`s are
under no obligation to repay kindness with gratitude, hint at their base
character, or serve the story needs (or wants) of the DM.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[irdeggman]

Originally posted by kgauck
1) PC`s wouldn`t be lieutenants per say, since they are free willed, being
controlled by players. Certainly non-ruler PC`s could be members of the
court (or courts), and they can certainly solve problems for rulers.
However, they are under none of the obligations we can expect of NPC
lieutenants, nor should rulers be forced to count another player`s PC
against his lieutenant (or cohort) limits.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com


When I mentioned Lieutenants, I meant the player runs a regent and one of the regent's lieutenants is that player's adventuring PC, not a different player's adventuring PC. Nothing ever stated that Lieutenants are run by the DM. I typically let the player's determine how their lieutenants progressed and control their basic actions, but I role-played them when the player had a player running at the time.

[Latinius]

Well, I guess I am considered a newbie. I have played Birthright 2ed for years, but I have never tried a third edition version. It took me awhile to even transfere over to running my normal campaign in 3ed rules, but I liked the change. My question is how many people still run Birthright in 2ed rules and who have moved to the new 3ed rules found on this sight?

[ryancaveney]

On Sun, 4 May 2003, Latinius wrote:

> Well, I guess I am considered a newbie. I have played Birthright
> 2ed for years, but I have never tried a third edition version.

I don`t think that should mean you`re called a "newbie" at all!
IMO, experience with the campaign setting is much more important
than experience with any particular FRPG engine for resolving
adventure actions. Bring on the non-D&D BR, I say.

> My question is how many people still run Birthright in 2ed rules
> and who have moved to the new 3ed rules found on this sight?

I moved my Greyhawk campaign to 3e, but I`ve kept BR at (my heavily
modified BR-specific version of) 2e until I find a conversion I like. If
I ever decide I`m happy enough with it to try running BR in "3e", the "3e"
I pick will look almost nothing like the current draft under discussion.
Thus I`ve been using "IMC" in a couple of different ways: primarily, there
is a difference between "how I`ve long done it in 2e," which I still
fiddle with occasionally; and "how I presently think I`d most like to do
it in a sort of 3e-ish way," which changes rather more rapidly.

In some sense, I`m moving to 3e one rule at a time -- but the changes I
make to how my Cerilia operates will be minimal, and the changes I make to
how PHB 3e operates will be massive. That`s similar to how I used 2e (I
made some pretty extensive house rules to bring standard AD&D mechanics
into closer alignment with how Cerilia ought to work IMO), and how I would
use any of the other FRPG systems I`ve considered using instead of (A)D&D.


Ryan Caveney

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