[BIRTHRIGHT] Gettinplayers to adventure

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shade" <lordshade@SOFTHOME.NET>
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 11:23 PM


> My goal, in general, is to have 1 adventure every gaming session (usually
> we play one season). To me that is pretty balanced between adventuring and
> domain-level play.

Start having domain play only via e-mail, reserving table-top play for
adventuring. Or to reverse it, don`t do domain stuff during gaming
sessions. Use sessions only for domain actions that are role played, and
those can involve a two goal story with a reversal.

Players set out to solve a random event (Matter of Justice, say) only to
find out that the story has an unexpected second act. It could just be a
deeper mystery, it could have an unconnected (McGuffin) link to the second
act, or it could reveal a master polt behind the original plot.

1) Deeper mystery- A trade matter leads the PC`s to investigate/ negotiate
with a key guilder, but the guilder isn`t doing what what originally
suspected, he`s doing something else.

2) McGuffin- During a diplomatic matter, it comes to the attention of PC`s
that a treasure map, rumored magic item, or other useful hook is presented.

3) Master plot- A corruption event is investigated to prevent the
hemmoraging of additional GB`s. The PC`s ultimatly discover that the money
and resoucres are being diverted to a major enemy like the Chimera or the
White Witch.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shade" <lordshade@SOFTHOME.NET>
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 11:23 PM


> My goal, in general, is to have 1 adventure every gaming session (usually
> we play one season). To me that is pretty balanced between adventuring and
> domain-level play.

Start having domain play only via e-mail, reserving table-top play for
adventuring. Or to reverse it, don`t do domain stuff during gaming
sessions. Use sessions only for domain actions that are role played, and
those can involve a two goal story with a reversal.

Players set out to solve a random event (Matter of Justice, say) only to
find out that the story has an unexpected second act. It could just be a
deeper mystery, it could have an unconnected (McGuffin) link to the second
act, or it could reveal a master polt behind the original plot.

1) Deeper mystery- A trade matter leads the PC`s to investigate/ negotiate
with a key guilder, but the guilder isn`t doing what what originally
suspected, he`s doing something else.

2) McGuffin- During a diplomatic matter, it comes to the attention of PC`s
that a treasure map, rumored magic item, or other useful hook is presented.

3) Master plot- A corruption event is investigated to prevent the
hemmoraging of additional GB`s. The PC`s ultimatly discover that the money
and resoucres are being diverted to a major enemy like the Chimera or the
White Witch.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Birthright-L]

From: "Shade" <lordshade@SOFTHOME.NET>

> I know that the books suggest there
> are ruined castles all over the place where you can find treasure and
> adventure, but I find that really hard to believe when you have 200
> soldiers roaming that province on a regular basis.
>
> [snip]
>
> My goal, in general, is to have 1 adventure every gaming session (usually
> we play one season). To me that is pretty balanced between adventuring and
> domain-level play.
>

200 soldiers to a province is not a lot. In fact, that is probably hardly
enough to patrol the densely populated areas. there is plenty of hinterland
even in a level 10 province, and a province of level 1-3 is a tiny cluster
of civilization in a huge wilderness. So there is plenty of room for ruined
castles, goblin boglands, small elven groves, orog caves and other adventure
locations.

Not to mention that may adventures can center around holdings -
investigating a new smuggling Guild or routing out some "Law" bandits can be
great fun.

One adventure per season seems quite all right. I had 1d6 months between
every scenario at the start of my campaign - worked out to about the same on
the average.

/Carl

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[Peter Lubke]

On Mon, 2003-04-14 at 19:35, Stephen Starfox wrote:
From: "Shade" <lordshade@SOFTHOME.NET>

> I know that the books suggest there
> are ruined castles all over the place where you can find treasure and
> adventure, but I find that really hard to believe when you have 200
> soldiers roaming that province on a regular basis.
>
> [snip]
>
> My goal, in general, is to have 1 adventure every gaming session (usually
> we play one season). To me that is pretty balanced between adventuring and
> domain-level play.
>

200 soldiers to a province is not a lot. In fact, that is probably hardly
enough to patrol the densely populated areas. there is plenty of hinterland
even in a level 10 province, and a province of level 1-3 is a tiny cluster
of civilization in a huge wilderness. So there is plenty of room for ruined
castles, goblin boglands, small elven groves, orog caves and other adventure
locations.

Quite apart from which: the most common adventure encounter is with
patrols - or has been in D&D, AD&D (1st and 2nd ed). Running into 20-40
of these soldiers can itself be *interesting*.

Not to mention that may adventures can center around holdings -
investigating a new smuggling Guild or routing out some "Law" bandits can be
great fun.

One adventure per season seems quite all right. I had 1d6 months between
every scenario at the start of my campaign - worked out to about the same on
the average.

/Carl

Yeah, if the players are into domain play - you should be getting plenty
of plot-lines and adventure ideas from their own domain actions.

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[irdeggman]

I also tried to run domain actions as much as possible via e-mail. Most can be easily handled that way. Seldom, in my campaign, did the player's PC's domain actions have competeing actions. Although this is quite possible depending on how closely allied the PC's are.

Player's generally will feel cheated if they don't get to roll some dice at least once a game night.:)

[ConjurerDragon]

Stephen Starfox wrote:

>From: "Shade" <lordshade@SOFTHOME.NET>
>
>>I know that the books suggest there
>>are ruined castles all over the place where you can find treasure and
>>adventure, but I find that really hard to believe when you have 200
>>soldiers roaming that province on a regular basis.
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>My goal, in general, is to have 1 adventure every gaming session (usually
>>we play one season). To me that is pretty balanced between adventuring and
>>domain-level play.
>>
>
>200 soldiers to a province is not a lot. In fact, that is probably hardly
>enough to patrol the densely populated areas. there is plenty of hinterland
>even in a level 10 province, and a province of level 1-3 is a tiny cluster
>of civilization in a huge wilderness. So there is plenty of room for ruined
>castles, goblin boglands, small elven groves, orog caves and other adventure
>locations.
>
To add to that: Even 400 normal soldiers (who are likely only 1st level
commoners-levies, warriors-irregulars/infantery or fighters-elite
infantery?) are entirely helpless if you have even a single monster that
can only be hurt by +1 weapons, like a gargoyle or spectre or ghost -
these monsters will send soldier after soldier fleeing for their lives
and giving the ruined castle a reputation of being haunted by the worst
nightmares which no normal soldier will enter even if commanded by his
lord - except if personally lead by a liutenant or the regent himself...
bye
Michael Romes

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[Shade]

At 11:35 AM 4/14/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>From: "Shade" <lordshade@SOFTHOME.NET>
>
>> I know that the books suggest there
>> are ruined castles all over the place where you can find treasure and
>> adventure, but I find that really hard to believe when you have 200
>> soldiers roaming that province on a regular basis.
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> My goal, in general, is to have 1 adventure every gaming session (usually
>> we play one season). To me that is pretty balanced between adventuring and
>> domain-level play.
>>
>
>200 soldiers to a province is not a lot. In fact, that is probably hardly
>enough to patrol the densely populated areas. there is plenty of hinterland
>even in a level 10 province, and a province of level 1-3 is a tiny cluster
>of civilization in a huge wilderness. So there is plenty of room for ruined
>castles, goblin boglands, small elven groves, orog caves and other adventure
>locations.

??? Really? I am afraid I just don`t comprehend how this is possible. Isn`t
a province about 40 miles by 40 miles? 1600 square miles or so? That`s
tiny! I live in Austin, Texas, USA and I would guess the Austin
metropolitan area alone is about the size of a province.

Austin isn`t even that big of a city.

>
>Not to mention that may adventures can center around holdings -
>investigating a new smuggling Guild or routing out some "Law" bandits can be
>great fun.
>
>One adventure per season seems quite all right. I had 1d6 months between
>every scenario at the start of my campaign - worked out to about the same on
>the average.
>
>/Carl
>
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[ryancaveney]

On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Shade wrote:

> ??? Really? I am afraid I just don`t comprehend how this is possible.
> Isn`t a province about 40 miles by 40 miles? 1600 square miles or so?

That`s the big end of the province scale -- according to the BR rulebook,
they tend to measure 30 to 40 miles on a side, so 900 to 1600 square.
Based on what I`ve managed to work out with blow-ups of the few (Players
Secrets) maps with scales by counting squares (numerical integration by
hand, as it were), the ones actually on the map have a bigger spread than
this, but are centered more or less around that range.

> That`s tiny! I live in Austin, Texas, USA and I would guess the Austin
> metropolitan area alone is about the size of a province. Austin isn`t
> even that big of a city.

*grin* Recall that on the medieval (and to some extent the modern!)
European scale, Texas is IMMENSE. Also, the concept "metropolitan
area" includes a fairly high population density and modern mechanical
transportation systems: 40 miles was much, much longer when you had to
walk the whole way, and there were only 9,000 people there (a level 3,
if you believe province level = population).

There is plenty of room for all sorts of strange adventure locations in
the sparsely populated Erebannien.


Ryan Caveney

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[Shade]

At 07:25 PM 4/14/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Shade wrote:
>
>> ??? Really? I am afraid I just don`t comprehend how this is possible.
>> Isn`t a province about 40 miles by 40 miles? 1600 square miles or so?
>
>That`s the big end of the province scale -- according to the BR rulebook,
>they tend to measure 30 to 40 miles on a side, so 900 to 1600 square.
>Based on what I`ve managed to work out with blow-ups of the few (Players
>Secrets) maps with scales by counting squares (numerical integration by
>hand, as it were), the ones actually on the map have a bigger spread than
>this, but are centered more or less around that range.
>
>> That`s tiny! I live in Austin, Texas, USA and I would guess the Austin
>> metropolitan area alone is about the size of a province. Austin isn`t
>> even that big of a city.
>
>*grin* Recall that on the medieval (and to some extent the modern!)
>European scale, Texas is IMMENSE. Also, the concept "metropolitan
>area" includes a fairly high population density and modern mechanical
>transportation systems: 40 miles was much, much longer when you had to
>walk the whole way, and there were only 9,000 people there (a level 3,
>if you believe province level = population).
>
>There is plenty of room for all sorts of strange adventure locations in
>the sparsely populated Erebannien.

You don`t think 200 soldiers could patrol every inch of Austin? I find it
really hard to believe there is a lot of "unexplored" territory in a 1600
square mile area.

How about rangers? You don`t think 100 rangers (25 per province) could
patrol the 4-5 provinces of the Erebannien? I find it really hard to
believe that they could not... I mean, how can you miss a band of 50 gnolls
in the Erebannien if you`re a ranger? You can probably track them pretty
easily, and you contact the Aerenwe military forces, who come in and clean up.

(For that matter, how many rangers would you say Aerenwe has?)

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[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shade" <lordshade@SOFTHOME.NET>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 6:58 PM


> I find it really hard to believe there is a lot of "unexplored"
> territory in a 1600 square mile area.

After the plague struck, large agreas of Europe, formerly populated were
abandon to the wilderness, in part because wolves (also bears and boars)
proved to dangerous to villagers reduced in numbers by disease. While
fantastic characters of role playing might be mightier, so are the monsters
of those wilderness areas. And that assumes you imagine Cerilian populations
to be as dense as European populations.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[ConjurerDragon]

Shade wrote:

>At 07:25 PM 4/14/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Shade wrote:
>>
>>>??? Really? I am afraid I just don`t comprehend how this is possible.
>>>Isn`t a province about 40 miles by 40 miles? 1600 square miles or so?
>>>
>>That`s the big end of the province scale -- according to the BR rulebook,
>>they tend to measure 30 to 40 miles on a side, so 900 to 1600 square.
>>Based on what I`ve managed to work out with blow-ups of the few (Players
>>Secrets) maps with scales by counting squares (numerical integration by
>>hand, as it were), the ones actually on the map have a bigger spread than
>>this, but are centered more or less around that range.
>>
>>>That`s tiny! I live in Austin, Texas, USA and I would guess the Austin
>>>metropolitan area alone is about the size of a province. Austin isn`t
>>>even that big of a city.
>>>
>>*grin* Recall that on the medieval (and to some extent the modern!)
>>European scale, Texas is IMMENSE. Also, the concept "metropolitan
>>area" includes a fairly high population density and modern mechanical
>>transportation systems: 40 miles was much, much longer when you had to
>>walk the whole way, and there were only 9,000 people there (a level 3,
>>if you believe province level = population).
>>There is plenty of room for all sorts of strange adventure locations in
>>the sparsely populated Erebannien.
>>
>
>You don`t think 200 soldiers could patrol every inch of Austin? I find it
>really hard to believe there is a lot of "unexplored" territory in a 1600
>square mile area.
>
Please remember that this area is not urban with neat houses and cleaned
streets. If I look at a map of Germany in medieval times or
roman/germanic times, then you could walk out your house take a few
steps and stand right in the next primeval forest.
The only connection between villages being a small path or for a city
perhaps a dirt paved road and trees, trees, trees.

The roman general Varus lost a few legions in the german forests, not
only because of the forest but also because of it.

>How about rangers? You don`t think 100 rangers (25 per province) could
>patrol the 4-5 provinces of the Erebannien? I find it really hard to
>believe that they could not... I mean, how can you miss a band of 50 gnolls
>in the Erebannien if you`re a ranger? You can probably track them pretty
>easily, and you contact the Aerenwe military forces, who come in and clean up.
>(For that matter, how many rangers would you say Aerenwe has?)
>
Two or three?
Most Birthright products tell us that very few people have classlevels
(2E term which means that they have only an NPC class), so most people
(97%?) are only commoners, experts, adepts and warriors and Aristocrats
(NPC). From the remaining 3% most do never come above 3rd level (that is
mentioned in the PS of Talinie if I remember right). And this 3% also is
split among all PC classes, as Wizards/Magicians/Sorcerors, Fighters,
Aristrocrats/Noble (PC class) Clerics, Rogues, Druids and Rangers.

Even the warcard "scout" unit certainly is NOT made up of rangers, but
experts.
bye
Michael Romes

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[Shade]

At 05:24 AM 4/15/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Shade" <lordshade@SOFTHOME.NET>
>Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 6:58 PM
>
>
>> I find it really hard to believe there is a lot of "unexplored"
>> territory in a 1600 square mile area.
>
>After the plague struck, large agreas of Europe, formerly populated were
>abandon to the wilderness, in part because wolves (also bears and boars)
>proved to dangerous to villagers reduced in numbers by disease. While
>fantastic characters of role playing might be mightier, so are the monsters
>of those wilderness areas. And that assumes you imagine Cerilian populations
>to be as dense as European populations.

And they are actually a lot less dense, if the numbers for province
populations are to be believed.

>
>Kenneth Gauck
>kgauck@mchsi.com
>
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[Nikolai II]

Copy and paste from the similar thread a bit down where I was alone to reply. Most of this is old hat now, but I wanted it to be seen :P


200 soldiers in a province is nothing, considering the size, but even more considering that they follow the roads.
Normal soldiers are fragile, and won't leave the beaten path unless ordered (and should take damage for doing so, unless scouts)

A ruined castle takes up a few acres at tops (complete with forbidding woods and putrescent swamp) while a province iirc is about 400 sq.mi. so you can fit a lot in there.
Then there are castles in use as well, infested with goblins (who hold hostages) or ruled by robber knights (who have to be dealt with silently or the throne would seem questioned).

They are quite local, so problems dealing with the entire region should make them come together (Diem/Gorgon/Spider/Roele funding brigands/beasties to take care of).
Another solution is (a lá Ars Magica) to let the players create and use embassadors for contacting each others, and they get to play either their main man or the liutenant in the adventure. (Use domain action or Lt. action).
This allows 'stay-at-home' kings to do so, and still not be left out of the adventure, while 'adventurer' kings get more xp and become better kings.:)