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Rhobher Nichaleir
03-27-2003, 09:16 PM
Are these still free??

Where is it discussed??

irdeggman
03-27-2003, 09:23 PM
They are not mentioned because they are no longer "free" actions. I always preferred the description of "bonus" action to avoid confusing it with the cost of the action. The decision to not give free actions came about mostly becasue of the relative ease that a character could multi-class in 3rd edition. So if a character picked up a level of rogue (formerly thief) and cleric would he be eligible for 2 free actions, an espionage and an agitate? It was these kind of game balance issues that caused this decision in the development phase.

There is a whole description on what a free action is and what a standard action is that should help explain what can and cannot be done.:)

Rhobher Nichaleir
03-27-2003, 09:27 PM
Couldn't you have just ruled that a character must have OVER 1/2 of their levels as Cleric or as Rogue to get the bonus action.

And, to even the field ever further, instead of a Bonus action, it could be a regular action taken as a court action.

Or at least give them a bonus to these actions.

Mark_Aurel
03-27-2003, 09:54 PM
Under the current rules, anyone can get espionage as a court action - you need to create a spy network in a province first, however, as per the rules on page 109.

irdeggman
03-28-2003, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by Rhobher Nichaleir


Couldn't you have just ruled that a character must have OVER 1/2 of their levels as Cleric or as Rogue to get the bonus action.

And, to even the field ever further, instead of a Bonus action, it could be a regular action taken as a court action.

Or at least give them a bonus to these actions.

The real question is the "bonus" action or the "bonus to the action" as you request based on class or should it be based on holdings? Having a level in a class shouldn't qualify someone to be any better at management or piety (as far as the masses go) it would depend on what you did with that "level". Did you learn better skills? Did you acquire/invest inmore "contacts" and "informants", etc?

Simply basing a free action or even a bonus to an action soley on having levels in a certain class just doesn't pass the "logic" test. :)

ConjurerDragon
03-28-2003, 01:43 PM
irdeggman wrote:

>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1499
>irdeggman wrote:
> They are not mentioned because they are no longer "free" actions. I always preferred the description of "bonus" action to avoid confusing it with the cost of the action. The decision to not give free actions came about mostly becasue of the relative ease that a character could multi-class in 3rd edition. So if a character picked up a level of rogue (formerly thief) and cleric would he be eligible for 2 free actions, an espionage and an agitate? It was these kind of game balance issues that caused this decision in the development phase.
>
This question had already be answered by the 2E Book of Priestcraft:
Class is not the only thing that matters. A fighter for example who
multiclasses to priest to get a "free Agitate" would get none - the Book
of Priestcraft explicitely stated that a priest needs to rule temples to
get it (p. 64 BoP).

It would be similar with Thiefs/Rogues and guild if a Book of Guildcraft
would have been published I assume.

>There is a whole description on what a free action is and what a standard action is that should help explain what can and cannot be done.:)
>
But the whole draft 0.0 system is only beneficial to people with large
courts where more GB spent mean more actions.
It does lack the mechanic to let very skilled characters do an extra
action while not being able or willing to spend GB on court.

In 2E we had Thief/Espionage and Cleric/Agitate extra action by class in
addition to the normal 3 actions of a realm. In Travis Dooms conversion
we had this and an extra Agitate action when succeeding a Leadership
skill, however with a DC I find personally set too low as an extra
action is valuable.

I would like to see implemented that money=courtlevel=up to 5 actions
would not be the only thing that matters, but that very skilled
individuals (e.g. Highmage Aelies makes a Scry check at DC XX and gets
an extra SCRY action, Fhilereane makes a Gather Information check at
DCXX and gets an extra ESPIONAGE action). The DCs should be high to
avoid an inflation of actions. And they should not be inaddition to the
maximum of 5 buyable actions to prevent the rich AND skilled to have
even more actions. Rather within the limit of 5 actions, people who do
not field a enourmous court but are very skilled should be able to get
an extra action.
bye
Michael Romes

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Rhobher Nichaleir
03-28-2003, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by irdeggman



Originally posted by Rhobher Nichaleir


Couldn't you have just ruled that a character must have OVER 1/2 of their levels as Cleric or as Rogue to get the bonus action.

And, to even the field ever further, instead of a Bonus action, it could be a regular action taken as a court action.

Or at least give them a bonus to these actions.

The real question is the "bonus" action or the "bonus to the action" as you request based on class or should it be based on holdings? Having a level in a class shouldn't qualify someone to be any better at management or piety (as far as the masses go) it would depend on what you did with that "level". Did you learn better skills? Did you acquire/invest inmore "contacts" and "informants", etc?


'Over Half'

Simply basing a free action or even a bonus to an action soley on having levels in a certain class just doesn't pass the "logic" test. :)

Ariadne
03-29-2003, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by irdeggman

They are not mentioned because they are no longer "free" actions.
Really? That's sad, but I see the problem. Maybe a character with rogue and cleric levels gets only the bonus of his higher class...
Just an idea...

Nikolai II
03-29-2003, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by ConjurerDragon
I would like to see implemented that money=courtlevel=up to 5 actions
would not be the only thing that matters, but that very skilled
individuals (e.g. Highmage Aelies makes a Scry check at DC XX and gets
an extra SCRY action, Fhilereane makes a Gather Information check at
DCXX and gets an extra ESPIONAGE action). The DCs should be high to
avoid an inflation of actions. And they should not be inaddition to the
maximum of 5 buyable actions to prevent the rich AND skilled to have
even more actions. Rather within the limit of 5 actions, people who do
not field a enourmous court but are very skilled should be able to get
an extra action.
bye
Michael Romes


This I like, a maximum of 5 actions, and a possibility of earning more actions than court spending by 'skill' vs DC 20+(2*action wanted). So if your court allows three actions you'd roll vs DC 28 for action 4 and DC30 for action 5.

DC too high, too low?