Fighting Style

[kgauck]

I try to select about four fighting styles for each of the main cultures.
Such has three purposes. First, I can construct a standard NPC pattern
(like the single one which the DMG provides for every class), regardless of
class. Second, players can get a sense of typical or probable fighting
styles of NPC`s they spot. Third, I can more easily select, customize, or
create prestige classes with some idea of how they fight.

The Rjurik fight with four primary weapons - sword, bow, axe, and spear.
Anyone might fight with any weapon, although swords are by far the least
common specialty weapon. Swords are expensive and don`t have the same kinds
of economic uses that bows or axes have. Swords are, therefore, the weapons
of a specialized warrior class. Spears are very common because they are
inexpensive, and used for hunting.

Swords are normally associated with the dryhten, or noble class. Nobles
might use any weapon, but few other than nobles use swords. The typical
sword style focuses on strength, intelligence, and strategy. Favored feats
include the Power Attack sequence, Weapon Focus, and Iron Will.

Axes are the favored weapon of traditional Rjurik. It can be thrown,
wielded in melee, and used as a tool. The typical axe style focuses on
strength and speed. Favored feats include Point Blank Shot and Far Shot for
throwing axes (often performed immediatly before closing) Weapon Focus, and
the Power Attack sequence for battle or great axes. Great Fortitude is also
common.

Bows are the favored weapon of a good number of Rjurik. Composite Long Bows
are an exotic weapon in Cerilia, but only a martial weapon in Rjurik. Long
Bows can be found in Anuire as well, but Short Bows are the universal bow.
Khinasi favor Composite Short Bows. Archers favor the Point Blank Short
sequence, Dodge, Quick Draw, Alertness, Improved Initiative, as well as
Dodge, Spring Attack, and Lighting Reflexes.

Spears are the most common weapon in Rjurik. The typical spear style
focuses on defense, agility, and patience. Weapon Focus, Dodge, Spring
Attack, Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line, Set Spear, and Close Order Fighting.
Every cnyht (squire) employs the long spear, because its reach allows the
cnyht to keep foes away, while having the ability to use the Aid Another
action to assist their dryht. Depending on their training, spear users
might be found in either pike or irregular units.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Onwen Agelmore]

How about the other fighting styles?
The Sword and Shield of the Anuirean?
The Black Strike Fancing of Brecht?

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Onwen Agelmore" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 5:01 PM

> How about the other fighting styles?
> The Sword and Shield of the Anuirean?
> The Black Strike Fancing of Brecht?

I`m not ready to get quite this precise, I`m still going over more general
trends. Black Strike is one specific style. I`m still trying to work out
the list of weapons and how they are used, and who uses them. I know the
Brecht are going to use rapiers with a dexterity style, and crossbows. I`ll
add sabers on horseback, a noble style not much practiced beyond the
aristocratic warriors. And, say a halberd, for fending off cavalry and
pulling them down off their horses. That`s around the block though.

Anuireans.
Their pole arm is a pike (like a glaive, but it can be set against a
charge.) Its wielded primarily by townsfolk who train together once a
month. They invariably take the military feats, Hold the Line, Set Spear,
Close Order Fighting, Combat Reflexes, and frequently Expertise and Improved
Trip.

Swords are expensive, so are typically a noble weapon. Anuireans get
bastard sword as a martial weapon. Such fighters often use a large shield.
They favor Power Attack, Improved Shield Bash, Shield Charge, Power Lunge,
Shield Expert, Power Charge, and Two-Handed Power Strike. Advanced
practitioners, adventurers, and those who are near to goblin realms work the
cleave sequence in there too.

Bows. Anuireans are not the archers that the Rjurik are, and so only wield
the longbow, not the composite longbow. Typically, to reflect this lower
degree of devotion, archers are more of a mixed type. In Archer units, the
mixure is with a commoner or expert class. In the adventurer, the archer
sequence of feats is combined with feats that do double duty with melee,
like Dodge, Alertness, Quick Draw, and Expertise. Most archers are also
pretty good with a mace, adventurers and nobles often prefer a shortsword.

The lance as a specialty is unique to Anuire. Anuire and Khinasi are both
mounted experts, but the Anuireans focus on heavy, shock combat. Whether
the heavily armored knight, or the lightly armored, cavalry, the emphisis is
on shock. The Mounted Combat sequence is common (except mounted Archery) as
well as Weapon Focus (Lance). Once this sequence is completed, or well
under way, feats from the sword style are added for sustained melee.
Cavalry tend to favor the morningstar, knights the sword. Many Anuirean
knightly orders provide special trianing in unique prestige classes for
mounted combatants.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[kgauck]

Thinking about the Black Strike fighting style, I think the best way to
handle it is to follow AEG`s swashbuckling CS. Half or more of their PrC`s
are actually fighting styles. The shorter ones, 3 level and 5 level PrC`s
are mostly fighting styles, and the 10 level ones are the more familiar
organization based PrC`s. IMO, much in the Swashbuckling CS can be used for
Br.

Black Strike Swordsman

Requirements:
BAB +4
Feats Weapon Focus (rapier), Weapon Focus (main gauche)
Skills Bluff 6 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks

HD 10

Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Disguise, Escape Artist, Heal, Jump,
Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Tumble, Use Rope.
Skill Points at Each Level: 6+Int modifier

Lvl BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1 +1 +0 +2 +0 Finesse, Off-Handed Fighting
2 +2 +0 +3 +0 Bonus Feat
3 +3 +1 +3 +1 Lunge and Feint
4 +4 +1 +4 +1 Bonus Feat
5 +5 +1 +4 +1 Light Footed

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A student of this school is proficient with
the rapier and main gauche (dagger used in the off-hand). This school does
not encourage the use of armor or shields by its practitioners.
Finesse: At 1st level, when wearing light or no armor and armed with a
rapier or a rapier and main gauche may use their Dexterity modifier instead
of their Strength modifier on attack rolls.
Off-Handed Fighting: When wearing light or no armor and armed with a small
blade in their off-hand, a student of this school can fight with two weapons
as if he had the feats Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting.
Bonus Feats: At 2nd level, a student of this school gets a bonus feat as a
fighter would. He gains an additional bonus feat at 4th level.
Lunge and Feint: At 3rd level, the black strike swordsman has learned how to
lunge for extra damage and feint for additional defense. When wielding a
rapier and main gauche or a rapier alone, the practitioner may fight as if
he had the feat Power Attack. When wielding a rapier and a main gauche, the
practitioner may fight as if he had the feat Expertise.
Light Footed: At 5th level, the practitioners of this school may add their
Int or Wis modifier (whichever is higher) to his AC and Ref save while
wearing light or no armor. This is a dodge bonus that is lost whenever the
black strike swordsman is denied his Dex modifier to AC.

There are a variety of cool PrC`s based on specific fighting styles. I am
particularly fold of the greatsword technique (Drexel Swordsman), the
mounted spearman technique (Pösen Boar Spear Fighter), and the axe
specialist (Bogatyr Hatchet Fighter). This has as much to do with my
campaign being in the Taelshore as it does with the PrC`s themselves. There
are other good ones I just won`t be able to use much.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Ariadne]

May be a fighting style of a warrior is influenced by religion too (O.K. in Rjurik there might be no difference), but I think some fighters prefer a weapon favored by the god they follow and so may be a fighting style not normal for the region...

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ariadne" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 6:07 PM

> May be a fighting style of a warrior is influenced by religion too
> (O.K. in Rjurik there might be no difference), but I think some
> fighters prefer a weapon favored by the god they follow and so
> may be a fighting style not normal for the region...

I think you could upgrade that "maybe" to a "certainly". However, it makes
a lot of sense to talk about these influences seperatly. The combinations
of culture, class, social status, and religion create so many combinatioins
of influences that it would quickly become overwhemling. One should
understand that seperating these things out reflects tendencies, and that
cominations of tendencies allow players more flexibility, because they are
less rigid and more easily comprehensible.

When examining a specific character concept you can try to intersect these
four constraints (culture, class, social status, religion, along with any
others that are appropriate for the character) and figure out what is
appropriate. Generalizing for all the possible combinations would be a vast
undertaking.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Azrai]

Try the "Quintessential Fighter" from Mongoose Publishing. Here are several Fighting Styles listed.

[kgauck]

I wonder if anyone has seen the show "Conquest" on the History Channel on
American cable. The BBC are involved in some of their shows, so presumably
distribute some of this stuff themselves.

Anyway, they just did a show about the axe as a weapon. Very interesting
for developing fighting styles. They mentioned that shows have already
covered swords, maces, and bows. Here are some points from the show:

The axe is a terrible defensive weapon. Its weight is all at one end, and
its unwieldy. Once you get it moving, its hard to change direction in
responce to a threat. In offence its nearly unbeatable. You can get more
swings in (they show a women getting in four attacks in two seconds) than
most other weapons, and here the weight being all at the business end is an
advantage. The spear and swordsmen got in far fewer attacks, and the
spearmen had his weapon sundered without any special effort. This makes the
berserker style of combat possible. Those bear chested warriors swinging
axes were 100% offense and 0% defence. Because the axe is heavy, and
lopsided, it requires a bit more skill and strength than, say, the spear.
It lacks the grace and balance of the sword, and the trial team often
declared a preference for a sword (then the host of the show did the sword
on axe demonstration in which the axe got in a dozen hits and the sword got
none as well as driving the swordsmen back).

Since the way to represent special skill, training, and practice with a
weapon is through feats, most of my mechanics based on the show are feats.
There is one rule which I will apply generally, however: you cannot fight
defensively (and therefore cannot use feats that improve fighting
defensively) with an axe.

The disadvantage is right up there in front. Here are the feats:

Flurry of Blows
You attack with a flurry of blows swinging your axe wildly.
Prerequisites: Str 13+, Power Attack
Benefit: When engaged in melee combat with an axe, you may make one
additional attack in a round at your highest base attack, but this attack
and every other attack you make this round suffers a -2 penalty. This
benefit requires the full attack action.

Brutal Axe
Your flurry of axe blows are more effective
Prerequisites: Str 13+, Power Attack, Flurry of Blows
Benefit: Attack an object and bull rush actions do not provoke attacks of
opportunity when fighting with an axe in melee combat. Also, your strength
bonus is doubled during opposed attack or strength checks for these actions.

Zone of the Axe
The area you threaten is especially dangerous to opponants
Prerequisites: Flurry of Blows, Brutal Axe, BAB +6 or higher
Benefit: You get a bonus attack of opportunity against any opponant who is
not fighting defensivly. You may only have one opponant who has targeted
you this round. This benefit requires a bit more control than is possible
with a flurry of blows, so does not stack with that ability.

Axe wielders like to combine a flurry of blows, or a zone of the axe with a
charge.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Lee]

You might also want to look into the fighting feats in the newest Dragon
mag, which arrived in my mailbox today. "Wild swings" or something close to
that, was one of them.

Lee.

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[Onwen Agelmore]

Very Well! :)
The Vikings ware the best on offense, butt they didnt care for defense.
Your text about axe is very good.
But your feats?
Arent they a bit strong?
Make a second attack on the firts lvl is very strong!
You may say that you can make it whith point blank and rapid.
It is trong too...
You are making 100% more attacks than other peoples.
Imagine Fighter 1
Power Attack
Flurry of Blows (axe)
Cleave

This fighter has a chance to make 3 attacks in one round on the first lvl...

[Onwen Agelmore]

By the way...
Take a look at the Tribal Protector PrC on Sword and Fist. He gains an ability called WILD FIGHTING on the second lvl. This ability is similar to a monk attacking whith furry of blows. Or your first lvl feat....
Maybe you can hard on the requirements

[Birthright-L]

On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Onwen Agelmore wrote:
> The Vikings ware the best on offense, butt they didnt care for defense.
> Your text about axe is very good.
> But your feats?
> Arent they a bit strong?
> Make a second attack on the firts lvl is very strong!
> You may say that you can make it whith point blank and rapid.
> It is trong too...
> You are making 100% more attacks than other peoples.
> Imagine Fighter 1
> Power Attack
> Flurry of Blows (axe)
> Cleave
>
> This fighter has a chance to make 3 attacks in one round on the first lvl...

Yes, but they`ll stink. The -2 penalty takes him to a BAB of -1 instead
of +1, and that should probably go for his AoO too. Personally, I like
it, and I think everyone should be able to swing wildly for more attacks
at the expense of accuracy. It works for me.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Onwen Agelmore" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 9:24 AM

> Make a second attack on the firts lvl is very strong!

Monks get flurry of attacks (along with other class features) at 1st level.
This ability is analyzed in Sword and Fist. Using that approach, we see
that a medium-size 1st level Fighter with Weapon Focus and Cleave attacking
a Goblin (AC 15) needs a 14 to hit the goblin, and hits 35% of the time.

A fighter with power attack, flurry of blows (axe), and cleave who attacks
the same Goblin would need a 17 to hit (20%) twice.

If the goblin fights defensively against the fighter using flurry of blows
the fighter`s attack chance drops to 10%. Fighting defensivly is far more
effective against a furry of blows attack than it is against a normal
attack. Once we assume a character with the expertise feat, the advantage
probabaly lies with the defender, so the axe fighter needs to fight
normally.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Sir Justine]

Your fighting styles feats are very good Kenneth; however, I must agree with Onwen: making an extra attack at the expense of a -2 penalty to attack rolls is very strong. Actually, it's not worth doing ONLY if you need a 18 or more on the die roll to hit your target. If you need a 17 (20% chance) you have the same chance with the flurry (with the -2 penalty you will need a 19, that is 10%, but with two attacks, that doubles to 20%).
If you need any number below 17 to hit, it's always worth doing the flurry, so it IS strong.
Not that I don't like it; it's just that it must be balanced with the other fightning styles.

As for the other styles, an example of an Anuirean style:

SHIELD MASTER (Anuirean)
You are a master at attacking with a weapon and a shield.
Prerequisites: BAB 6+, Shield Expert (from S&F)
Benefit: You may make off-hand attacks with your shield as if you had the feats Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fightning.

[Birthright-L]

I think these axe feats should give some impairment to AC, too. A feat that
allows an additiona attack at -2, but which also reduces your AC for the
round by -2, is balanced with no prerequisites.

Also, this captures the lousy parrying ability of the axe.

I`ve been working on the Netbook of Feats for more than a year now, so I
have looked at the balance of numerous feats.

/Carl


----- Original Message -----
From: "daniel mcsorley" <mcsorley@CIS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: Fighting Style [2#1155]


> On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Onwen Agelmore wrote:
> > The Vikings ware the best on offense, butt they didnt care for defense.
> > Your text about axe is very good.
> > But your feats?
> > Arent they a bit strong?
> > Make a second attack on the firts lvl is very strong!
> > You may say that you can make it whith point blank and rapid.
> > It is trong too...
> > You are making 100% more attacks than other peoples.
> > Imagine Fighter 1
> > Power Attack
> > Flurry of Blows (axe)
> > Cleave
> >
> > This fighter has a chance to make 3 attacks in one round on the first
lvl...
>
> Yes, but they`ll stink. The -2 penalty takes him to a BAB of -1 instead
> of +1, and that should probably go for his AoO too. Personally, I like
> it, and I think everyone should be able to swing wildly for more attacks
> at the expense of accuracy. It works for me.
> --
> Communication is possible only between equals.
> Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu
>
>
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[Birthright-L]

Many attacks can be useful against a hard-to-hit opponent. I once was in the
position ofhaving three attacks in a round (I was hasted) but a very lousy
chance of having any of these attacks connect. I maxed out my power attack -
so that even with only a 5% chance for each attack to hit, my statistical
damage became quite impressive. The same can be done with Flurry of Blows.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth Gauck" <kgauck@MCHSI.COM>
To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: Fighting Style [2#1155]


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Onwen Agelmore" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 9:24 AM
>
> > Make a second attack on the firts lvl is very strong!
>
> Monks get flurry of attacks (along with other class features) at 1st
level.
> This ability is analyzed in Sword and Fist. Using that approach, we see
> that a medium-size 1st level Fighter with Weapon Focus and Cleave
attacking
> a Goblin (AC 15) needs a 14 to hit the goblin, and hits 35% of the time.
>
> A fighter with power attack, flurry of blows (axe), and cleave who attacks
> the same Goblin would need a 17 to hit (20%) twice.
>
> If the goblin fights defensively against the fighter using flurry of blows
> the fighter`s attack chance drops to 10%. Fighting defensivly is far more
> effective against a furry of blows attack than it is against a normal
> attack. Once we assume a character with the expertise feat, the advantage
> probabaly lies with the defender, so the axe fighter needs to fight
> normally.
>
> Kenneth Gauck
> kgauck@mchsi.com
>
>
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[Birthright-L]

On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Sir Justine wrote:
> Your fighting styles feats are very good Kenneth; however, I must
> agree with Onwen: making an extra attack at the expense of a -2
> penalty to attack rolls is very strong. Actually, it`s not worth
> doing ONLY if you need a 18 or more on the die roll to hit your
> target. If you need a 17 (20% chance) you have the same chance with
> the flurry (with the -2 penalty you will need a 19, that is 10%, but
> with two attacks, that doubles to 20%). If you need any number below
> 17 to hit, it`s always worth doing the flurry, so it IS strong.

It`s stronger than a regular attack, which is pretty much the point of any
feat. So you`re right there. Is it too strong?

Longsword, average damage 4.5
1 attack vs 2 attacks flurry
(ignoring crits, which will change it ever so slightly)

To-hit =20, 1 attack dmg/rd = 5% * 4.5 = .225
2 attack flurry, to-hit =22, but you auto hit on a 20, dmg/rd = .45
Prefer flurry.

To-hit =19, dmg/rd = 10% * 4.5 = .45
2 attack flurry, to-hit =21, hit on a 20, dmg/rd = .45
Same.

To-hit =18, dmg/rd = 15% * 4.5 = .675
2 attack flurry, to-hit =20, dmg/rd = .45
Prefer single attack.

To-hit =17, dmg/rd = .9
2 attack flurry, to-hit =19, dmg/rd = .9
Same.

To-hit =16, dmg/rd = 1.125
Flurry, to-hit =18, dmg/rd = 1.35
Prefer flurry.

To-hit =15, dmg/rd = 1.35
Flurry, to-hit =17, dmg/rd = 1.8
Prefer flurry.

To-hit =14, dmg/rd = 1.575
Flurry, to-hit =16, dmg/rd = 2.5

To-hit =13, dmg/rd = 1.8
Flurry, to-hit =15, dmg/rd = 3.6
Prefer flurry.

It`s going to go more in the favor of flurry from here. So you`ll almost
always break even or better from using flurry (except for on to-hit=18).
It gets better as your odds of hitting improve. Compare that to, say,
weapon focus, which will always increase your damage/round, but is linear.
With the longsword, I`ll always do .225 more damage/round if I have weapon
focus (for a regular longsword, no enchantments). I`ll always do +2 if I
have specialization. Also linear.

I`d put Flurry about equal to the ambidexterity/two weapon fighting combo
(which is one feat in d20 modern, BTW, and probably will be in the revised
3e books next summer). The combined d20M feat has a prereq of dexterity
13. The old version was a two feat combo. With the prereq Kenneth put on
his axeman flurry of blows, it seems balanced enough to me.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[Onwen Agelmore]

Good point.
You must compare flurry of blows (axe) whith ambidexterity two weapon fighting.
One feat / Two Feat
Better DMG / Wrost DMG
same penalty

[Birthright-L]

There is a difference here: Flyrry gives full Str damage bonus on both
weapons, and can use a two-handed weapon. TWF requires a light weapon in th
eoff hand for minimum penalties, and gains only half Str bonus to damage.

/Carl


----- Original Message -----
From: "Onwen Agelmore" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: Fighting Style [2#1155]


> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at:
http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1155
>
> Onwen Agelmore wrote:
> Good point.
> You must compare flurry of blows (axe) whith ambidexterity two weapon
fighting.
> One feat / Two Feat
> Better DMG / Wrost DMG
> same penalty
>
>
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[irdeggman]

Good point with the 2 handed weapon note. Also anytime you use a weapon with 2 hands you get 1 1/2 times your strength damage, it does not have to be a size larger weapon.

[kgauck]

A druid (or druid type character) can seriously improve their quarterstaff.
The easiest and cheapest way is to use glyphs (like runes, but equivilent to
scrolls) to cast Shillelagh pre-combat. For the cost of 120 glyphs, you
could have the spell permenantly added to your quarterstaff. Powerful,
combat oriented druids (especially with levels of ranger) might eventually
have the other end of the quarterstaff cast into a bane against the same
enemy that their favored enemy is.

The same can be done to slings with magic stone.

Having weapons based off of magic stone and shillelagh seems to be a better
set-up than just plus x.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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